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SlyPokerDog said:
Just a little.

In a few different threads OB has talked about defunding the police and the increase of homelessness in Portland. Meaning that somehow being homeless is a crime that is not being enforced.
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When in reality, they just need homes. It costs us more not to give them a home than to give them homes.

It is morally, fiscally, logically and in all other ways wrong to allow our down trodden to fall that far into destitution.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Just a little.

In a few different threads OB has talked about defunding the police and the increase of homelessness in Portland. Meaning that somehow being homeless is a crime that is not being enforced.
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what? Meaning? Your interpretation without investigation?

Rofl!!!

way to feed the bottom feeders though.
 
Orion Bailey said:
what? Meaning? Your interpretation without investigation?

Rofl!!!

way to feed the bottom feeders though.
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So just to be clear on your position, you don't feel that "somehow being homeless is a crime that is not being enforced"?
 
Phatguysrule said:
So just to be clear on your position, you don't feel that "somehow being homeless is a crime that is not being enforced"?
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of course not.

However i do feel much of the homeless commit crimes.

the false narrative around here is that all homeless are victims of circumstances when in fact, many have been there for years ever since they ran away from mommy and daddy when they were teens.
There is nothing wrong or criminal about being homeless.
But the homeless have a high percentage of law breaking criminals amongst them.

i have given snd helped the homeless both on a large scale(working with nonprofits for those in need) as well as delivering personal care packages myself to individuals i knew were trying to help them selves but did fall victim of circumstance.

Most homeless have no desire to help themselves or they wouldn't be sleeping in tents until noon.

Now, as the pandemic progresses of course the percent of disenfranchised families will increase and thus, lowering the percent of homeless who dont care about the law.

But those types are still on tue streets and the denial of it is ludicrous.
 
I have housed two different homeless people to help them get back on their feet. Because i dont forget how it was when i was homeless.

but I'm not willing to waste my time and energy to help those who don't want to help themselves.
And dont and cant are two different words, before anyone mixes my statement up...
 
Orion Bailey said:
of course not.

However i do feel much of the homeless commit crimes.

the false narrative around here is that all homeless are victims of circumstances when in fact, many have been there for years ever since they ran away from mommy and daddy when they were teens.
There is nothing wrong or criminal about being homeless.
But the homeless have a high percentage of law breaking criminals amongst them.

i have given snd helped the homeless both on a large scale(working with nonprofits for those in need) as well as delivering personal care packages myself to individuals i knew were trying to help them selves but did fall victim of circumstance.

Most homeless have no desire to help themselves or they wouldn't be sleeping in tents until noon.

Now, as the pandemic progresses of course the percent of disenfranchised families will increase and thus, lowering the percent of homeless who dont care about the law.

But those types are still on tue streets and the denial of it is ludicrous.
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Desperate people commit crimes. This is true.

The most efficient and effective solution is to prevent them from being desperate enough to commit crimes in an effort to survive.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Desperate people commit crimes. This is true.

The most efficient and effective solution is to prevent them from being desperate enough to commit crimes in an effort to survive.
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lol. Deny deny deny....


The teens weren't desperate running away from mommy and daddy in the 80’s and 90’s.

you know who else commit crimes? Criminals who dont care about the law. And some of those are also homeless.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I have housed two different homeless people to help them get back on their feet. Because i dont forget how it was when i was homeless.

but I'm not willing to waste my time and energy to help those who don't want to help themselves.
And dont and cant are two different words, before anyone mixes my statement up...
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But are you willing to save money and have a cleaner and safer city by allowing the government to house them?
 
Orion Bailey said:
lol. Deny deny deny....


The teens weren't desperate running away from mommy and daddy in the 80’s and 90’s.

you know who else commit crimes? Criminals who dont care about the law. And some of those are also homeless.
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Actually, teens were doing that in the 80s and 90s. It's worse now because the poor have fewer options now. The wealth gap is larger, federal minimum wage is more of a poverty wage, etc.

Many of those who ran away in the 80s and 90s are the homeless we see now.
 
Phatguysrule said:
But are you willing to save money and have a cleaner and safer city by allowing the government to house them?
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depends on how that program is run. Are we going to just house all homeless regardless of whether they take advantage vs abuse the program?
Are we going to allow homeless free room and board so they can sleep until noon and then spend the rest of the day looking for thier fix or drink?

or let me ask this. Do you think a prgram like that would not be taken advantage of?

would there be a limit? 6 months fre and get your act together or you are back out o nthe street?

tour question poses a very vague scenario of which, in my opinion, should be much more detailed than just providing room and board for a cleaner city.
Thats sweeping the dust under the rug and the rug will eventually become a trip hazard.
No long term improvement will come from simply gifting things without a set of goals to achieve.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Actually, teens were doing that in the 80s and 90s. It's worse now because the poor have fewer options now. The wealth gap is larger, federal minimum wage is more of a poverty wage, etc.

Many of those who ran away in the 80s and 90s are the homeless we see now.
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so you agree with me then. Most homeless are teen runaways.
But see i lived downtown from 91-93. This kids came from the suburbs with nice homes. But were spoiled and or looking for the drug life.
Not victim of circumstance or poverty.

are you familiar with the inside out?

teen runaway shelter and service? Most of those teens are from the suburbs. Not homeless parents.
 
Orion Bailey said:
depends on how that program is run. Are we going to just house all homeless regardless of whether they take advantage vs abuse the program?
Are we going to allow homeless free room and board so they can sleep until noon and then spend the rest of the day looking for thier fix or drink?

or let me ask this. Do you think a prgram like that would not be taken advantage of?

would there be a limit? 6 months fre and get your act together or you are back out o nthe street?

tour question poses a very vague scenario of which, in my opinion, should be much more detailed than just providing room and board for a cleaner city.
Thats sweeping the dust under the rug and the rug will eventually become a trip hazard.
No long term improvement will come from simply gifting things without a set of goals to achieve.
Click to expand...
I see punishing people seems high on your list of things to do.

So if 1 "program-homed person" takes advantage of the system and sleeps til noon for 7 months (or even indefinitely) you would prefer to end the program and pay thousands more per year for each (at least double the price of homing them) to either jail every one of them or pay as much as jailing them in emergency services, police overtime, public maintenance, etc. As well as have fewer get their lives back on track and rejoin the workforce as the price of punishing them?

This costs the public at least double and gives us fewer healthy people contributing to the economy, but it does punish more people who would take advantage of the system.

Is this what you would prefer?
 
Orion Bailey said:
so you agree with me then. Most homeless are teen runaways.
But see i lived downtown from 91-93. This kids came from the suburbs with nice homes. But were spoiled and or looking for the drug life.
Not victim of circumstance or poverty.

are you familiar with the inside out?

teen runaway shelter and service? Most of those teens are from the suburbs. Not homeless parents.
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A family from the suburbs is not equipped to effectively deal with a teen once it has gotten to the point of drugs and running away.

That teen is now a societal problem to solve.

My question is, are you willing to pay at least double to help fewer of those people and have smelly trashed cities and public spaces as we do now. Living this way is a form of punishment, as you well know.

Or just as much to jail them all. This is also obviously a form of punishment.

Or would you prefer to spend half as much by putting them in homes and giving them a caseworker (they likely already have a case worker in one form or another), which gets the highest number of people out of the system and back to contributing to the economy, but admittedly punishes people much less harshly than the first two options.
 
One thing that is not being mentioned is that 3 of the largest flop houses in downtown Portland have been turned into boutique hotels over the last 10 years.

Those flop houses were centralized locations to provide services like drug treatment and mental health counseling.

As the residents of those have scattered to the streets it's become much harder to provide services to those that want them. While it was easy for churches and non-profits to go to a flop house, it's not easy for them to go to the scattered camps throughout the city.

Portland residents did vote to increase funding for new homeless shelters, and some of those are coming along slowly but they have not replaced what was taken out of inventory or have matched the growing population of the city.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I see punishing people seems high on your list of things to do.

So if 1 "program-homed person" takes advantage of the system and sleeps til noon for 7 months (or even indefinitely) you would prefer to end the program and pay thousands more per year for each (at least double the price of homing them) to either jail every one of them or pay as much as jailing them in emergency services, police overtime, public maintenance, etc. As well as have fewer get their lives back on track and rejoin the workforce as the price of punishing them?

This costs the public at least double and gives us fewer healthy people contributing to the economy, but it does punish more people who would take advantage of the system.

Is this what you would prefer?
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no. I see you like to project and assume.
I asked questions. I didnt define what i would do.
Who said end the program? Why end the program? Why not end that specific persons gifts?

you think im a punisher? Lol. Okay. Because i expect able individuals to pull thier own weight in society so we can all band together to help those who need help? Not just want it?

not sure why you are making this out as an wither or.
There are several reasons for those who are homeless. Giving free room and board will only help some of them. Others it will hurt by enabling thier unhealthy(drugs) and criminal lifestyle.

its not all black Nd white as, give them all shelter and it will be a cleaner safer city and cost less.

thats a simpleton way of looking at it.

lets just throw money at the homeless and they will spend it right and all will be well.

Thats lunacy type of thinking.
 
Phatguysrule said:
A family from the suburbs is not equipped to effectively deal with a teen once it has gotten to the point of drugs and running away.

That teen is now a societal problem to solve.

My question is, are you willing to pay at least double to help fewer of those people and have smelly trashed cities and public spaces as we do now. Living this way is a form of punishment, as you well know.

Or just as much to jail them all. This is also obviously a form of punishment.

Or would you prefer to spend half as much by putting them in homes and giving them a caseworker (they likely already have a case worker in one form or another), which gets the highest number of people out of the system and back to contributing to the economy, but admittedly punishes people much less harshly than the first two options.
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I stopped at the first sentence.
Why are they not equipped to deal with it any less than anyone else in the city?

to answer your question? Littering is illegal.
If you break the law, pay the penalty. Homeless or not.

back to your first sentence. It makes zero sense to me. Please explain why they arent equipped to deal?
 
Orion Bailey said:
I stopped at the first sentence.
Why are they not equipped to deal with it any less than anyone else in the city?

to answer your question? Littering is illegal.
If you break the law, pay the penalty. Homeless or not.

back to your first sentence. It makes zero sense to me. Please explain why they arent equipped to deal?
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I'm curious as what you think the penalty should be for when a homeless person litters?

They can't pay a fine. They're homeless. No income.

That leaves jail.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I stopped at the first sentence.
Why are they not equipped to deal with it any less than anyone else in the city?

to answer your question? Littering is illegal.
If you break the law, pay the penalty. Homeless or not.

back to your first sentence. It makes zero sense to me. Please explain why they arent equipped to deal?
Click to expand...
Orion Bailey said:
no. I see you like to project and assume.
I asked questions. I didnt define what i would do.
Who said end the program? Why end the program? Why not end that specific persons gifts?

you think im a punisher? Lol. Okay. Because i expect able individuals to pull thier own weight in society so we can all band together to help those who need help? Not just want it?

not sure why you are making this out as an wither or.
There are several reasons for those who are homeless. Giving free room and board will only help some of them. Others it will hurt by enabling thier unhealthy(drugs) and criminal lifestyle.

its not all black Nd white as, give them all shelter and it will be a cleaner safer city and cost less.

thats a simpleton way of looking at it.

lets just throw money at the homeless and they will spend it right and all will be well.

Thats lunacy type of thinking.
Click to expand...
It doesn't work unless you're housing all of them. The program fails because benefits and savings are reduced.

If they break the law you punish them. You do not punish them by making them homeless.

I've seen no evidence that giving anybody a shelter, heat, and sanitary services is more harmful than taking those services away and forcing them to be homeless.

That's simply a false statement.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I'm curious as what you think the penalty should be for when a homeless person litters?

They can't pay a fine. They're homeless. No income.

That leaves jail.
Click to expand...

most homeless get government gifts like welfare, foodstamps etc. defuct the fine for littering from thier handout.

Im curious why so much push back on homeless illegal activity instead of even attempting to say it that some homeless are good people and some just want to skate Nd take advantage?

do you think those types dont exist?

those people dont deserve help in my opinion.
My issue woth the current system is it doesnt weed these people out. One of the many reasons im not for universal anything.


Just just keep pumping money onto the war on drugs instead of rehab. Where has it got us since Nancy started just say No?


Some problems you cant just toss money at And expect it to right itself. Some things need independent and specific scenario investigations to define legitimacy of the help wanted. And/or to figure out other methods to try to solve the issue.


i believe the homeless issue is one of these we cant just toss money at and expect it to just be okay like it has been implied by several posters in several posts.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It doesn't work unless you're housing all of them. The program fails because benefits and savings are reduced.

If they break the law you punish them. You do not punish them by making them homeless.

I've seen no evidence that giving anybody a shelter, heat, and sanitary services is more harmful than taking those services away and forcing them to be homeless.

That's simply a false statement.
Click to expand...

Where did i state it would hurt some MORE?

nothing false about my statement just an inaccurate deduction on your part.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I stopped at the first sentence.
Why are they not equipped to deal with it any less than anyone else in the city?

to answer your question? Littering is illegal.
If you break the law, pay the penalty. Homeless or not.

back to your first sentence. It makes zero sense to me. Please explain why they arent equipped to deal?
Click to expand...
I've seen no evidence that would suggest they are. A teenager who doesn't want to be home will not be home.

What would you suggest?
 
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