Hey TB that doesn't work against the Blackhawks

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Difference between the Hawks and the rest of the teams in the NHL. Drafting. Look at some of the jackasses picked ahead of Teravainen who they took 18th. Same with Saad who they took in the second round. That's what I'm trying get into Chucks think skull. Last time Chicago didn't have a 1st round pick was the mid 1990's. To be fair, they have missed on quite a few of those picks. But they always seem to hit on those one or two who seem to be these great playoff players for them. Saad and Teravainen are starting to head in that direction. That is why you keep your high picks. You don't sell them like ho's in an alley like Sather is doing lately.
 
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Come on dump they could have all the Saads and Teravainens they want, they would be nowhere without Kane and Toews which were both top 2 picks. You used to kill teams that tanked like that why are you all of a sudden sucking them off?
 
I agree Prod. They still won first and foremost because the tanked. However, they keep their picks while contending and they hit on some guys that help them win those cups. Two players with no supporting cast isn't going to win multiple cups. Look at Pitt. They got one cup and have been a non factor with Malkin and Crosby because they can't draft. The supporting cast around those guys is crap now. You have to give the Hawks credit. Yeah, they tanked seasons but they built a talented supporting cast around them. Look at the Islanders and Oilers. They have sucked for years after tanking. Just now the Islanders have gotten good. It took forever.
 
Yes agreed, but it's difficult to compare us to the Hawks which is what youre trying to do in your original post. The better comparison to judge the Hawks is to the Isles Pens and Oilers like you did in your second post, teams with multiple top picks who can't get it together because of bad depth drafting. In our situation, we haven't had top picks. The only way we could get that kind of top end talent here is to part with some first rounders. The Hawks can afford to keep those late first rounders as they already have their top talent from sucking so badly. We didnt have that luxury. Now we can debate that we've used our first rounders in the wrong kinds of deals (St.Louis etc), but if we don't make those deals we don't have the top end talent necessary in the league these days.
 
The point I was making was the Hawks trade off guys, always keep their picks while still going for it every year. They constantly are building their farm. Sather the past 2 years has just lost his mind, deciding to make these moves where he gives up all our picks and prospects to go for it now. It's dumb and isn't necessary. You can go for it without dealing your first and second round picks. The Hawks are proof of that.
 
Chuck and Al can't grasp that. You don't sell off your future to the level Sather has to go for it. It's moronic. The only hope I see the team having now is deals involving the likes of Nash, Talbot, Yandle and Hagelin. Players they could bring back an NHL player for plus either picks or prospects. The development of Talbot might be able to bail Sather out of some of his recent stupidity. They probably can get at least a 2nd and a good, young NHL ready prospect or good NHL role player for him.
 
Stop trying to talk sense into him Prod, he is like a little kid with a toy, you know that. This is now his focus, so he will beat that to death.

He LOVED the Yandle trade. He LOVED the Nash trade. Now he's like OMG how do you deal away the future. Those are the kinds or trades you don't make. Al and Chuck and Sather are dumb...LOL. Really all you can do is smile. Like dealing with a 6 year old, same thing...LOL.

He HATED the way the Hawks operated to get Toews and Kane, now they are his model. BTW dump the Hawks dealt a 1st for Vermette AND a 2nd...yes a crazy 2nd rounder...for Timonen.

Our system was awesome. All these idiots had no clue and hated NY, that's why we were rated near the bottom. Now overnight the system is awful and Sather and Chuck and Al are idiots...LOL.

You need to remember the source, but more importantly remember that dump is on the 73 year plan. Always need to build for tomorrow. Today never comes, but tomorrow sure looks great...LOL.
 
Chuck is like the compulsive gambler or drinking when it comes to building a team. Nothing in moderation.
 
There's ridiculous and then there's completely ridiculous. If you would rather be a fan of the AHL version of the Rangers than so be it. I'd rather see the big club win a damn championship.
 
First it was Genoway, then it was Immonen, Heilmen and Baranka (none any closer to the NHL than I am) then it was Dawes and now Duclair, all these toys Dump gushes over that the Rangers either fuck over or ruin or something like that.

The only person I know that would say fuck I rather the big club NOT make the finals but instead build a great AHL team so we can have a promising future.

Mikhail Yakubov
Pavel Vorobiev
Adam Munro
Anton Babchuk


All 1st round picks by the Hawks in the early 2000's

Then
Brent Seabrook (14th overall)
Cam Barker (3rd overall)
The famous Jack Skille (7th overall)
Jonathan Toews (3rd overall)
Patrick Kane (1st overall)
Kyle Beach (11th overall)

The hit on 2 great players all drafted in the top half of the draft.
We are trading picks in the late 20's because we don't have top 5 picks....There is a huge difference in talent between the 1st overall pick and the 24th don't you think. So yeah...have to give something to get something.

You weren't bitching when they traded Gomez to get McD who was a 1st round pick right...or signing Kevin Hayes another 1st round pick.
 
I just don't understand the mindset of gutting the team so that the Rangers can have some draft picks for the future.
 
Messiah717 said:
I just don't understand the mindset of gutting the team so that the Rangers can have some draft picks for the future.
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There is a time and place when you have to...not when you have one of the worlds best goalies in his prime
 
Dump is not wrong. One of the reasons we are SC contenders year-in/year-out the past few years is because we held onto those late 1st, 2nd round picks that are crucial to having a deep team in today's cap era

JT Miller - 1st rd, 15th overall
Stepan - 2nd Rd
Kreider - 1st rd, 19th overall
Staal - 1st rd, 12th overall

we drafted Dubi and Anisimov in the 2nd round, which allowed us to trade for Nash/Brassard. Cally was a 4th rounder that we used to trade for MSL, who was huge in last year's playoffs when we went to the SCF's

If we had just given up those picks in trades for vets years ago we would not be where we are today, because those vets would have aged/declined or no longer be on the team

When you go in "all in, go for it mode" you better win a Cup soon because you will sooner or later hit a down slope. If you want your success to be sustainable you need to keep those picks to get the next wave of talented, affordable players to replace those that are aging or becoming too expensive.
 
and honestly, having Henrik now doesn't mean once he's gone, or out of his prime, that we can't win anymore. The need for a top-flight goalie in order to win is long gone and we've seen you can win Cups with a less than great goalie.
 
NYR31 said:
Dump is not wrong. One of the reasons we are SC contenders year-in/year-out the past few years is because we held onto those late 1st, 2nd round picks that are crucial to having a deep team in today's cap era

JT Miller - 1st rd, 15th overall
Stepan - 2nd Rd
Kreider - 1st rd, 19th overall
Staal - 1st rd, 12th overall

we drafted Dubi and Anisimov in the 2nd round, which allowed us to trade for Nash/Brassard. Cally was a 4th rounder that we used to trade for MSL, who was huge in last year's playoffs when we went to the SCF's

If we had just given up those picks in trades for vets years ago we would not be where we are today, because those vets would have aged/declined or no longer be on the team

When you go in "all in, go for it mode" you better win a Cup soon because you will sooner or later hit a down slope. If you want your success to be sustainable you need to keep those picks to get the next wave of talented, affordable players to replace those that are aging or becoming too expensive.
Click to expand...


It's easy to be an armchair QB now because the ultimate end result has not been realized. You can't blissfully ignore three ECF appearances in four years. Yes, they haven't gotten over the hump but it's not like they just went reckless for a one year chance at winning it all. They need to try and win with Lundqvist now. They have young guys here now that need to grow and produce. That being said you also need veterans. What the hell good would it be running out and trading Nash, Yandle, Talbot and half the team for draft picks? So maybe they get a chance to win in 2021?
 
NYR31 said:
Dump is not wrong. One of the reasons we are SC contenders year-in/year-out the past few years is because we held onto those late 1st, 2nd round picks that are crucial to having a deep team in today's cap era

JT Miller - 1st rd, 15th overall
Stepan - 2nd Rd
Kreider - 1st rd, 19th overall
Staal - 1st rd, 12th overall

we drafted Dubi and Anisimov in the 2nd round, which allowed us to trade for Nash/Brassard. Cally was a 4th rounder that we used to trade for MSL, who was huge in last year's playoffs when we went to the SCF's

If we had just given up those picks in trades for vets years ago we would not be where we are today, because those vets would have aged/declined or no longer be on the team

When you go in "all in, go for it mode" you better win a Cup soon because you will sooner or later hit a down slope. If you want your success to be sustainable you need to keep those picks to get the next wave of talented, affordable players to replace those that are aging or becoming too expensive.
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Ok but you cant bitch and moan after you make those trades to say well we shouldn't be giving up the farm...you cant have it both ways...there is a point in time when all these middle to late picks just don't cut it against higher end talent which we do not get out of the draft
 
NYR31 said:
and honestly, having Henrik now doesn't mean once he's gone, or out of his prime, that we can't win anymore. The need for a top-flight goalie in order to win is long gone and we've seen you can win Cups with a less than great goalie.
Click to expand...
you can get away with an average to above average goalie when you have number 1 picks on your roster NOT NAMED NASH
 
Without a top goalie like Lundy you need a lot better overall talent on the team than the Rangers have. The Blackhawks are rocking two world class players.
 
Messiah717 said:
It's easy to be an armchair QB now because the ultimate end result has not been realized. You can't blissfully ignore three ECF appearances in four years. Yes, they haven't gotten over the hump but it's not like they just went reckless for a one year chance at winning it all. They need to try and win with Lundqvist now. They have young guys here now that need to grow and produce. That being said you also need veterans. What the hell good would it be running out and trading Nash, Yandle, Talbot and half the team for draft picks? So maybe they get a chance to win in 2021?
Click to expand...

You haven't paid attention to what i or Dump said. I completely acknowledged our 3 ECF's and said one of the reason we have been successful is because we held onto those late 1st / 2nd rd picks.

Dump is not advocating trading Nash/Yandle/Tablot for draft picks. He's saying trade them for NHL players PLUS picks/prospects
 
this is going back to a theme we've revisited a few times on this board...since the 05 lockout EVERY SINGLE CUP WINNER (minus the Wings) had at least one top 3 pick within the last few years that strongly contributed to their run. And it'll be true again this year, either with the Hawks or TB (Stamkos 1OA, Hedman 2OA).

We dont have that luxury. We need to get the talent somehow. There is a median like 31 has pointed out. You cant do this every year. But we stockpiled those late first/2nd guys, and now that they're contributing we've dumped a few first rounders to get that elite talent we need. Hasnt gotten us quite there yet but damn are we close.
 
NYR31 said:
You haven't paid attention to what i or Dump said. I completely acknowledged our 3 ECF's and said one of the reason we have been successful is because we held onto those late 1st / 2nd rd picks.

Dump is not advocating trading Nash/Yandle/Tablot for draft picks. He's saying trade them for NHL players PLUS picks/prospects
Click to expand...

Well at some point you have to go for it and try to win. This is not post 1994 where they loaded the team with veterans and screwed themselves for years to come. Brassard is 27, JT Miller is 22, Hayes is 23, Kreider is 24, Stepan is 24, and Fast is 23. A big chunk of this team is very young. They need some of these guys to step up the next level. You can't gut the team in hopes of something six years from now.
 
theProdigy223 said:
this is going back to a theme we've revisited a few times on this board...since the 05 lockout EVERY SINGLE CUP WINNER (minus the Wings) had at least one top 3 pick within the last few years that strongly contributed to their run. And it'll be true again this year, either with the Hawks or TB (Stamkos 1OA, Hedman 2OA).

We dont have that luxury. We need to get the talent somehow. There is a median like 31 has pointed out. You cant do this every year. But we stockpiled those late first/2nd guys, and now that they're contributing we've dumped a few first rounders to get that elite talent we need. Hasnt gotten us quite there yet but damn are we close.
Click to expand...

Again, this is another post being spoken like the team is complete garbage. They have Hayes, Miller and Kreider who clearly need to get to the next level. Mentioning other teams world class talent is ridiculous because those teams tanked seasons in order to get those guys.
 
Messiah, with all due respect what the hell are you talking about/smoking? Where am I acting like this team is complete garbage? I'm saying history shows you need world-class talent to win a cup along with a strong supporting cast. We got the strong supporting class through the guys you mentioned, all of whom I am very high on and are continuing to get better. To get the world class talent like Nash and St.Louis (which unfortunately didnt work out for us) we had to part with some first round picks, which I am perfectly fine doing.

Where did you pull this "the team is complete garbage" crap from?
 
theProdigy223 said:
Messiah, with all due respect what the hell are you talking about/smoking? Where am I acting like this team is complete garbage? I'm saying history shows you need world-class talent to win a cup along with a strong supporting cast. We got the strong supporting class through the guys you mentioned, all of whom I am very high on and are continuing to get better. To get the world class talent like Nash and St.Louis (which unfortunately didnt work out for us) we had to part with some first round picks, which I am perfectly fine doing.

Where did you pull this "the team is complete garbage" crap from?
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Because the team does have a lot of talent. That's the point. They have a world class goalie. They have a solid defense that we now know was hampered by bad injuries that if it was the season they wouldn't of been playing. We haven't seen how good a Hayes and Miller can be. It's going to be up to Kreider if he wants to commit and mature enough to get to that 30-35 goal level. Yes, they need some further pieces to get over the hump but mentioning world class players that aren't going to just fall out of the sky anyway is ridiculous.
 
It's a just fan fantasy nonsense to think you're going to trade Nash and a team is going to give up players to make up for the lose of production and as an added bonus of taking on his salary also give up their top draft picks. I haven't seen one proposed Rick Nash trade idea on here. Just the veiled suggestion that of course some team looking to make the playoffs would give up the world for him. Like I said fantasy sports nonsense.
 
I KNOW THEY HAVE TALENT. I'm not expecting any world class players to just "fall out of the sky," we have our talent in Nash (for better or for worse) and I'm making this argument to show why trading the first round pick to get a player like him was necessary. Without Nash, and St. Louis last year, this team would have been on the playoff bubble.

I'm not advocating for getting more superstars here, that isnt feasible. I'm saying why getting the ones we did was necessary. Read a little more carefully.
 
Prod what it seems like your saying is that we have to hang on to picks because they turned into players like Dubi, AA and Cally in order to make the trades for the superior talent, while I agree with you, eventually though you run out of those picks and when you do you cant double talk and say we need to start hanging onto these picks for the future team.

A lot of arguing over nothing much IMO lol
 
theProdigy223 said:
I KNOW THEY HAVE TALENT. I'm not expecting any world class players to just "fall out of the sky," we have our talent in Nash (for better or for worse) and I'm making this argument to show why trading the first round pick to get a player like him was necessary. Without Nash, and St. Louis last year, this team would have been on the playoff bubble.

I'm not advocating for getting more superstars here, that isnt feasible. I'm saying why getting the ones we did was necessary. Read a little more carefully.
Click to expand...

I did read and the comment they can't do this every year again is about hindsight because you know what the end result is. They are trying their hardest to win a cup. They thought they could get over the hump with the moves. It didn't work so of course it's now easy to be a critic. Losing the picks are a gamble but with their success you're talking late picks anyway and not guarantee they're going to work out. Nobody says anything when Hayes falls into their lap. That was a free first round pick. How about fleecing Montreal for Mcdonagh. That was like another free first round pick. When you consider how many picks over the years haven't worked out it's all about perspective.
 
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