Hey TB that doesn't work against the Blackhawks

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Oh boy. You cant do it every year as in GOING FORWARD because eventually all the supporting cast guys like Kreider, Hayes, Miller etc. improve to the point that they need new contracts and all of a sudden there's nobody behind them when they become too expensive.

I am not a critic at all of the moves. Still like the Nash trade. Love the Yandle trade. Loved the St. Louis trade at the time but nobody could have foreseen how he went from Art Ross to 60 years old in 2 years. When I say we cant do it every year I am talking about going forward as in we cannot keep trading 1sts and 2nds year after year because youll run out of quality young players. We arent at that point yet, not even close.

"its easy to be a critic" what nonsense that is.
 
theProdigy223 said:
Oh boy. You cant do it every year as in GOING FORWARD because eventually all the supporting cast guys like Kreider, Hayes, Miller etc. improve to the point that they need new contracts and all of a sudden there's nobody behind them when they become too expensive.

I am not a critic at all of the moves. Still like the Nash trade. Love the Yandle trade. Loved the St. Louis trade at the time but nobody could have foreseen how he went from Art Ross to 60 years old in 2 years. When I say we cant do it every year I am talking about going forward as in we cannot keep trading 1sts and 2nds year after year because youll run out of quality young players. We arent at that point yet, not even close.

"its easy to be a critic" what nonsense that is.
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Yes, it's always easier for everyone to be a critic. It's not nonsense it's the truth. Moving forward Kreider, Hayes and Miller can't just be supporting cast guys. They have to become the stars.
 
theProdigy223 said:
Oh boy. You cant do it every year as in GOING FORWARD because eventually all the supporting cast guys like Kreider, Hayes, Miller etc. improve to the point that they need new contracts and all of a sudden there's nobody behind them when they become too expensive.

I am not a critic at all of the moves. Still like the Nash trade. Love the Yandle trade. Loved the St. Louis trade at the time but nobody could have foreseen how he went from Art Ross to 60 years old in 2 years. When I say we cant do it every year I am talking about going forward as in we cannot keep trading 1sts and 2nds year after year because youll run out of quality young players. We arent at that point yet, not even close.

"its easy to be a critic" what nonsense that is.
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When those contracts become to big, then they get moved for picks, and the circle continues
 
Nash was the number 1 pick overall. So they did get a top 3 pick. Problem is he doesn't produce in the playoffs. I'm all for going for it each year. Just don't give away all your picks and prospects. When you do, you better get some back. You need to have a constant pipeline of young players to keep under the cap and keep competitive. To me Yandle isn't going to be the difference of winning or losing the cup. So keeping him for 1 more year to lose him and not potentially get back 2 high picks a good prospect is stupid. Makes no sense. I don't know if Nash can finally be the difference in a cup. However, at this point I'm not sure I would spend another year trying to figure it out.
 
Need to dump msl (given) and trade talbot (given) boyle so mac can be the 6th d man, Yandle for pieces we need tough scoring forward before he plays the year and loses the value of the 2.6m contract and we can't sign him as a free agent. Hags will depend how greedy he gets come contract time. Nash will be here as av has made clear already
 
I am 100% with you Al and Mess. We are out of control in here right now, very predictable based on the fact we lost in game 7 of the ECF...:).

Dump loved the trades, now is knocking them. We are dealing picks in the late 20's...not top 5 or 10 or even top 20 picks. YES you can get good players at 27...YES you want to have those picks if you could...but you also VERY EASILY can miss on pick 27 a lot easier than pick 10 or 12 or 6. AND you have to be in it to win it. Sometimes deals like that work, and most times they don't as only one team can win the cup.

Reality of the NHL and of sports really.

And Prod is right on it also...if you don't fall all the way to the bottom and get top 2 or 3 picks it is not easy to win titles.

We are real close, and now is the time to be smart and finish off the team. Deal Talbot for a pick and gritty forward if you can. Sub out Boyle for a lesser cap hit. Add a gritty top 9 R shot winger. Away we go from there.
 
I will also add I believe this is a great discussion, and good points can be made on both sides. Clearly I am on the side of smartly dealing picks to actually try and win a cup now. It is certainly a no doubter that at some point it will bite your team and cost you though. Just hope you have a cup or two by then, and you make some good later picks or other moves to help out...like signing a 1st rounder in Hayes.

All I will say is we are dealing picks in the mid to late 20's, so that make the loss less than if we were dealing top 10 or top 15 picks even. And second it is funny to me that dump is the one saying this when no one pushed harder for the Nash deal, and he loved the Yandle deal, and he was perfectly fine with the MSL deal when it happened. So I find his POV strange when those are the deals we gave up the 1st rounders in. Now it is awful? Seems weird to me, but to each their own.
 
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Anyone who stops and with a clear head thinks about it knows Nash is not getting traded. For the 1000th time you're not going to replace his production with what you would get back. Unless you want to swap him to some team that might have a similar salary and some kind of issue as well. What would be the point of that?
 
AV & Glen should go to Boyle and inform him that he's not part of next year's plans ala Wade Redden. The guy is at the end of his career and may allow the Rangers to move him but there is no way he or MSL are going to get any better next year - physically impossible. I would take McIlrath or Allen over Boyle any day, whatever slight offensive dropoff that may occur will be offset by their physicality. I liked the Yandle trade and would have kept him over Staal but the reality of the situation is the Rangers can't afford him next year
 
I agree Mess, but being responsible and doing our due diligence Sather needs to at least look and talk, that's the right thing to do...even though very doubtful anything comes of it.

My opinion on Yandle is simple. He is a HUGE bargin as a 50 point dman for 2.6 mill next season. I keep him and use that huge cap edge he gives us. If we stink at the trade DL, flip him then. MUCH more likely let it play out, hope to win a cup, and deal with it next summer. That is how I play it with Yandle.

Yandle and Klein give us a big boost cap wise at 5.5 mill combined on the cap next season...that is crazy good. We should take advantage of that, not deal either one.
 
chuckd3534 said:
I agree Mess, but being responsible and doing our due diligence Sather needs to at least look and talk, that's the right thing to do...even though very doubtful anything comes of it.

My opinion on Yandle is simple. He is a HUGE bargin as a 50 point dman for 2.6 mill next season. I keep him and use that huge cap edge he gives us. If we stink at the trade DL, flip him then. MUCH more likely let it play out, hope to win a cup, and deal with it next summer. That is how I play it with Yandle.

Yandle and Klein give us a big boost cap wise at 5.5 mill combined on the cap next season...that is crazy good. We should take advantage of that, not deal either one.
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The GMs in sports talk all of the time. It's funny that people think they sit around doing nothing for most of the time. Don't try to talk any sense in terms of contract value. Some just have ridiculous trade value expectations. Hey talk to Edmonton maybe they will give us Mcdavid for Boyle and Klein.
 
Friggin game three is 1-1 with Callahan and Richards as the goal scorers. Can't make that crap up.
 
Crazy... Even crazier is the Blackhawks look beatable this year... Those dumazzes (quoting dump) were potentially 1 period away from winning a cup
 
You have to laught that Sather let guys walk that are in the Cup this year... He should have signed back Boyle, Stralman, and Carcillo instead of Glass and Boyle.. Those 3 guys would have cost less than those Glass and Boyle ( and they wouldn't have acquired Sheppard). Hopefully Gorton in the GM next year
 
It is Sather's arrogance not giving in to Strallman which seems to be the key here. I look at it with addition by subtraction, if we had Strallman Tampa wouldn't have him and he is making the difference. Brian Boyle is whatever, could have helped but not the reason why. Plus Strallman is tradable if needed even with 4M remaining deal, but no he had to sign Dan Boyle.

So there you go Sather. Just like I said, the winner of ECF will be SC Champion. I called it during Caps series by the way, and I said IMO Tampa was the favorite to win, but disturbed said I am crazy......
 
Stralman will be worth every penny of the deal of those 4 years... Lol he's 28, he'll be 31 when the deal is done... I've kept quiet about it but it was stupid signing that relic Bootle over him... Stralman and Staal were solid together
 
How would those guys have cost less when Boyle and Stralman make the same amount and B. Boyle makes more than Glass...and you added in Carcillo?

This is Monday morning QB'ing at its best.

The ONLY move that doesn't look good right now is Boyle for Stralman. At 4.5 each of course you MUCH rather have Stralman, even if his deal is 3 years longer than Boyle's.

But outside of that PASS. This B. Boyle thing if funny. He doesn't matter either way IMO at 2 mill per. If he was here...great and if not that is great also.

The one guy is Stralman. That's how I view it.
 
If I hear one more person whine about Anton freaking Stralman I'm going to lose it. We had no choice but to let him go. We already have term and money locked up in McDonagh, Staal and Girardi, all of whom the Rangers value more than Stralman and rightfully so. They could not afford to lock up term and money in a fourth defenseman who doesnt add anything we dont already have. They offered him term, not money, during the year last year and he TURED IT DOWN. It was widely reported. After he did that his fate was sealed...can't have another defensive 4th Dman with that kind of term and money.

The money went to Dan Boyle because 1. he only wanted 2 years, something Stralman wouldn't take, and 2. WE HAD NO PP POINT MAN. Richards had just been bought out. We had to get someone with that experience. Boyle was one of the best in the league coming in here. I put his struggles on Arniel just as much as on Boyle...how many pp guys come here and can't get it done? At some point it's systematic rather than personnel. Just because the move didn't work like we hoped doesnt mean it wasn't the right move at the time.

So enough with the Stralman stuff. He's an above average, steady guy who's never been the top Dman on his pairing in his career. Not worth tying up term and money when we already have 3 of those contracts on the books. Klein did just fine in that role all season until he got hurt, and nobody had a peep to say about Stralman
 
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I don't blame Stralman for not taking 2 years... The guy was 27 last year at this time.. Lol not 37... Don't have to add in Carcillo but he would be the extra foward playing Glasses role... There would be no Sheppard...

I don't think anyone is whining prod, we're just seeing the big picture now.. Can't argue about Stralman, the guy is playing the on the first pair with a 2-1 series lead in the cup final... He had a career high in goals, assists, pts, and +,-... And yea probably because he was first pair on the #1 offense

The Staal pairing struggled with Boyle and Klein at times... O well, tough luck the Boyle for Stralman room didn't work out that great, then again Boyle did have 10pts in 19 playoff games..

As for Brian Boyle, I always liked the guy, especially on the 4th line with Moore. Remember Boyle-Moore-Carcillo was light years better than having Glass on the 4th line..he was also a very good penalty killer...o well, what's done is done
 
I dont blame him for not taking it either. It was the right move on his part to walk, and in my opinion it was the right move on our part to let him. He's seeing more minutes now with way better offensive weapons. His point totals will naturally be higher than they would be here.

I wanted Boyle back as well but he didnt want to be here. He wanted a 3C shot, which he got in Tampa (and blew it). The fourth line was a problem, no argument there. Carcillo scored two very big goals for us last year in the playoffs. Glass didnt score two goals all season.
 
Pretty soon we will be changing this forum from Sports Two to Gotcha Two. What a colossal waste of time going back weeks and months and years trying to show someone had a different opinion at one time then they do now. Guys, thats life. What you liked today that didn't work out you hate tmo. Lets move on. The offseason is upon us.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
Man that hawks gm must be kicking himself giving up a prospect AND a vital 1st round pick for vermette

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Typical dumbass Al. Vermette has basically done nothing the entire regular season and playoffs for the Hawks. He has a couple of moments and you bend over for him. That post is why you are a clown. He has 3 game winning goals. You think that is the reason the Hawks won? They won because Toews, Saad, Kane, Keith and Seabrooke have carried their asses. As always. It's always those 4 in Toews, Kane, Keither and Seabrooke and then one or two other forwards who carry them. They get the odd clown like Vermette who has a few game winners. Vermette has 7 points in 19 games. In other words, he's done jack. Of course, you are so stupid at times you can't see anything but one or two goals a player has. He's done nothing for what they gave up for him.
 
Yeah couple of game winning goals in the playoffs is nothing. And you would be the first one saying how great he was and needed. You are so unbelievable its now funny. Pretty much every member on this board gets a good laugh when you go on a rant about this and that.

So keep on with your act, ill sit back and enjoy it.

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You're a moron dude. You don't give up a first and a prospect and justify it because a guy has a couple of game winning goals when 90% the rest of the time the team is carried by the core players. I would not justify what they gave up for a guy like that. Rangers gave up Amonte for Matteau and Noonan when Amonte went on to be a dominant player for 6 to 8 years. It was still a stupid deal. There was no guarantee that Matteau would get a couple fluky bounces to be game winners. He happened to be in the right place at the right time. There is nothing say Amonte wouldn't have gotten those goals. You just like to throw picks away like garbage. Your moronic thinking is what ruined the Rangers for almost a decade.
 
You're a moron Al. I see that now. Your thinking is exactly what ruined this team for years. You're so pathetic and hard up for another cup that you will sell anything for it. Just like Sather did before the salary cap days. Time to add your senile ass to ignore. Your bald headed ass has been in the sun too long.
 
kreidertime said:
You're a moron dude. You don't give up a first and a prospect and justify it because a guy has a couple of game winning goals when 90% the rest of the time the team is carried by the core players. I would not justify what they gave up for a guy like that. Rangers gave up Amonte for Matteau and Noonan when Amonte went on to be a dominant player for 6 to 8 years. It was still a stupid deal. There was no guarantee that Matteau would get a couple fluky bounces to be game winners. He happened to be in the right place at the right time. There is nothing say Amonte wouldn't have gotten those goals. You just like to throw picks away like garbage. Your moronic thinking is what ruined the Rangers for almost a decade.
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And the fluke goals by fluke players won a cup.

Mel Kieper Jr of the message board.
I believe your time is coming up ypu know the draft when everyone is great...that is until their not.

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