How's everyone feel about Smokin' Joe Cronin now?

[Wizard Mentor]

You're entitled to that opinion.

I don't think either side threw the other under the bus. I do think both sides said or leaked things in an attempt to tilt the narrative in their favor.

bs
When Dame asked for a trade to 1 team, he threw the organization AND the entire fanbase under the bus.

 

[Tince]

bs
When Dame asked for a trade to 1 team, he threw the organization AND the entire fanbase under the bus.

Wow. Now he through the entire fanbase under the bus? I must've missed the "Every Blazer fan is fake, knows nothing about basketball, and I never liked any of you anyway" quote from Dame.

I'm still bummed Dame left. I'm bummed on how he/Goodwin went about the trade request. I'm bummed at how poorly we built a roster around him. I'm not so bummed that I need to make small things into big things to make either side look worse than they already do.

This Joe Cronin is a liar and Dame burned everything down on his way out stuff is way over the top.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Wow. Now he through the entire fanbase under the bus? I must've missed the "Every Blazer fan is fake, knows nothing about basketball, and I never liked any of you anyway" quote from Dame.

I'm still bummed Dame left. I'm bummed on how he/Goodwin went about the trade request. I'm bummed at how poorly we built a roster around him. I'm not so bummed that I need to make small things into big things to make either side look worse than they already do.

He threw the fanbase under the bus by intentionally destroying his trade value.

 

[Tince]

He threw the fanbase under the bus by intentionally destroying his trade value.

That's a big leap.

Had he kept his request under wraps (which I would've preferred), what do you imagine the Blazers would have got instead?

 

[Natebishop3]

I didn't say either side leaked things to make the other side look bad. I said they leaked/presented things to turn the PR battle in their favor, without regard to the impact of the other side.

Well, one side definitely leaked things to make the other side looked bad. I just can't think of any examples of the Blazers leaking things to make Dame look bad.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

That's a big leap.

Had he kept his request under wraps (which I would've preferred), what do you imagine the Blazers would have got instead?

no.

 

[Tince]

Well, one side definitely leaked things to make the other side looked bad. I just can't think of any examples of the Blazers leaking things to make Dame look bad.

I read Dame saying that he was asked to sit out as him trying to defend himself and his reputation more than an effort to hurt the organization. I don't know his true intentions.

 

[Natebishop3]

I read Dame saying that he was asked to sit out as him trying to defend himself and his reputation more than an effort to hurt the organization. I don't know his true intentions.

Come on man.... the shit about Joe ignoring him at the practice facility? This was a smear campaign to make Joe look like an asshole.

 

[Tince]

Come on man.... the shit about Joe ignoring him at the practice facility? This was a smear campaign to make Joe look like an asshole.

That's your opinion. Regardless, those words are unlikely to have any impact on us winning games moving forward, so who cares?

 

[Tince]

no.

No, it was unlikely to get us significantly more in return? I agree.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Saying the Blazers tried to tank at the end of the season is a false inflammatory lie? That's the topic we were discussing.

I didn't say everything they said and leaked was a lie, but they did leak lies and inflammatory info.

Miami and Dame were the toxic parties in this situation, not Portland.

Portland hasn't done anything most other teams haven't done multiple times. Including tanking. Holding that against them or trying to have them investigated for it is just more toxic behavior.

 

[Tince]

I didn't say everything they said and leaked was a lie, but they did leak lies and inflammatory info.

Miami and Dame were the toxic parties in this situation, not Portland.

Portland hasn't done anything most other teams haven't done multiple times. Including tanking. Holding that against them or trying to have them investigated for it is just more toxic behavior.

Understood... at the start of this I was talking about the comments made regarding Dame sitting out. I'm struggling to keep up with the moving goalposts on this topic. Without knowing the content in the conversations between Dame/Portland/Cronin/Miami, I'm not comfortable saying one party is morally clean and the others are toxic.

Regardless, I'm not upset at Lying Cronin or I Hate The Fans Dame.

 

[BassPlaya]

I have always disliked the logic that.....A guy throws a Punch, and if the other guy hits back, it's even.

No....it's not....not if the first punch was not expected.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Understood... at the start of this I was talking about the comments made regarding Dame sitting out. I'm struggling to keep up with the moving goalposts on this topic. Without knowing the content in the conversations between Dame/Portland/Cronin/Miami, I'm not comfortable saying one party is morally clean and the others are toxic.

Regardless, I'm not upset at Lying Cronin or I Hate The Fans Dame.

I'm having trouble keeping up as well. So at this point I'm just talking about my opinion and feeling on things in general.

Though I do think Cronin handled things perfectly. I probably wouldn't have tanked, but I think it was the most logical thing to do, and every good GM in the league would have done the same thing the last 2 seasons. Given the situation and how often it happens in the league it would almost be malpractice not to.

But I'm a fan. And I've never been able to accept losing on purpose.

Cronin is a better GM than I'd ever be.

 

[Natebishop3]

That's your opinion. Regardless, those words are unlikely to have any impact on us winning games moving forward, so who cares?

Man, no offense, but I hate when people say things like that.

We're debating a topic. You clearly care enough to continue to debate it. I care about the topic. Why then turn around and then say, "who cares?"

I care about Dame trashing the GM on the way out after he was dealt to a REALLY good situation.

 

[Tince]

I'm having trouble keeping up as well. So at this point I'm just talking about my opinion and feeling on things in general.

Though I do think Cronin handled things perfectly. I probably wouldn't have tanked, but I think it was the most logical thing to do, and every good GM in the league would have done the same thing the last 2 seasons. Given the situation and how often it happens in the league it would almost be malpractice not to.

But I'm a fan. And I've never been able to accept losing on purpose.

Cronin is a better GM than I'd ever be.

We agree. I've pushed back against the Cronin is a liar narrative as well.

I've been mostly supportive of Cronin's moves. I think he's done fairly well given the roster he was given and the owner he works for.

 

[Tince]

Man, no offense, but I hate when people say things like that.

We're debating a topic. You clearly care enough to continue to debate it. I care about the topic. Why then turn around and then say, "who cares?"

I care about Dame trashing the GM on the way out after he was dealt to a REALLY good situation.

No offense taken.

I think saying "who cares" is in the same category as saying "come on man". Doesn't add a ton of value, but makes it a little more spicy and fun.

Let me rephrase: I don't care much about what Dame has sad on his way out as I don't believe it will have any real impact on the franchise moving forward. If people want to be outraged by it, that's fine. Same with the people who want to be outraged by Cornin being a liar.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't believe it will have any real impact on the franchise moving forward.

It's hard to say what kind of impact it will have. Dame had a strong bond with some of the remaining players and the staff.

 

[Tince]

It's hard to say what kind of impact it will have. Dame had a strong bond with some of the remaining players and the staff.

If the concern is how the remaining players feel, him making the comments public isn't really the issue. I think it's fair to assume the players talk about a lot more dirty regarding how the organization treats them privately.

Which gets back to my original point: If someone does wrong, they need to own the consequences of that; we shouldn't blame the person who shares it. Dame included!

 

[Natebishop3]

If the concern is how the remaining players feel, him making the comments public isn't really the issue. I think it's fair to assume the players talk about a lot more dirty regarding how the organization treats them privately.

Which gets back to my original point: If someone does wrong, they need to own the consequences of that; we shouldn't blame the person who shares it.

Yeah but the "whisleblower" part is only one piece. For the players/staff, I think the comments about rescinding the trade request and the comments about Joe ignoring him and not responding to texts and all that, that's the part that concerns me because I don't know how players view that.

 

[Tince]

Yeah but the "whisleblower" part is only one piece. For the players/staff, I think the comments about rescinding the trade request and the comments about Joe ignoring him and not responding to texts and all that, that's the part that concerns me because I don't know how players view that.

Ok. So if that wasn't in the Haynes piece, do you think Ant would've never heard about it? They're friends.

If Cronin did ignore Dame for weeks, then Cornin has to own the implications of how that is perceived by the rest of the organization. If Dame lied about it to make Cronin look bad, then that's not cool at all and I hope Cronin comes out and even provides footage of them talking at the PF.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ok. So if that wasn't in the Haynes piece, do you think Ant would've never heard about it? They're friends.

If Cronin did ignore Dame for weeks, then Cornin has to own the implications of how that is perceived by the rest of the organization. If Dame lied about it to make Cronin look bad, then that's not cool at all and I hope Cronin comes out and even provides footage of them talking at the PF.

I fully believe Cronin ignored Dame once Goodwin started the back channeling threats to interested teams.

Goodwin doing that was always going to make things very difficult. Especially once Dame didn't come out and have the team's back.

I don't blame Dame for keeping his mouth shut. But I also don't blame Cronin for cutting off unnecessary communication.

Both guys probably made the smartest business decisions in that situation. Unfortunately, that didn't leave much room for longterm relationships.

It's just business. If it were about friends Dame would have done things differently.

 

[Tince]

I fully believe Cronin ignored Dame once Goodwin started the back channeling threats to interested teams.

Goodwin doing that was always going to make things very difficult. Especially once Dame didn't come out and have the team's back.

I don't blame Dame for keeping his mouth shut. But I also don't blame Cronin for cutting off unnecessary communication.

Both guys probably made the smartest business decisions in that situation. Unfortunately, that didn't leave much room for longterm relationships.

It's just business. If it were about friends Dame would have done things differently.

We agree, again!

It's too bad they couldn't exchange pleasantries when in the same room; I put that on both of them, but I get things had got pretty rough. I imagine in time, when emotions die down, both sides will be able to appreciate the difficulty the other side was in. For all these reasons, I dont't think any of the comments this week are a big deal at all.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We agree, again!

It's too bad they couldn't exchange pleasantries when in the same room; I put that on both of them, but I get things had got pretty rough. I imagine in time, when emotions die down, both sides will be able to appreciate the difficulty the other side was in. For all these reasons, I dont't think any of the comments this week are a big deal at all.

Yep. Agreed

 

[OneSport3]

Zach Lowe perfectly sums up this entire fiasco from an outsider’s POV in this pod. Starts at the 53:00 mark. Definitely worth the listen.

 

[wizenheimer]

yeah, it's a fairly decent outside POV. It actually starts around 51o when Zach Lowes talks about a conversation he had with another team's executive and the executive suggested Cronin tried to subtly engineer Dame's trade request with his actions. I think a lot of us here think that went on

they also mentioned, right on point, IMO, that the turning point was not the last draft but 2017 when Olshey totally bollixed the draft. they also talked about how Olshey stubbornly refused to look for CJ trades when his value was highest.

 

[BonesJones]

Miami could only trade 2 firsts and Tyler Herro with those 3rd stringers (yes ESPN depth chart has Jovic/Jaquez as 3rd string)

That you are trying to argue this is 4 FRP is laughable and just as delusional as the ridiculous Miami media.

I used to pay the max I could for your channel and enjoyed listening to you both but the delusional emotional whining of the last few months and your false claims of "lying" is such a turn off. I've cancelled for now, but look forward to resubscribing when someday y'all can discuss the Blazers factually and professionally.

You throw around the word "delusional" too easily considering we've discussed how they could get to four 1sts all summer. Herro to a 3rd team for a third 1st, and then adjusting protections with OKC to open a fourth 1st (maybe they couldn't have done this, but we're talking about the best-case package). This whole situation was emotional. This situation had a ton of people pissed off or frustrated with someone. Cronin, Dame, Aaron Goodwin, Miami... And people were pissed off at anyone who wasn't pissed off at the same person as them, because lets be honest - if we were going about it this way but directing it towards Miami or Aaron Goodwin, you would've liked it. Just the way it is. I get it.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Just a point to remember ...
In an interview, Lillard was asked about his sitting out the remaining games of this past season. His reply was that he had some calf issues but wanted to play -- but that the Blazers were probably protecting him from himself. With the recent hit piece, the story changed.

Trying to add things up for a reader from very separate quotes is the hallmark of a hit piece.

 

[BonesJones]

That's about as useful as me arguing with someone who thinks Scottie Barnes and 4 unprotected FRP from Toronto was a bad offer.

Like who the fuck cares? It's so unlikely Toronto could even assemble those assets, and they would never offer them, so it's all totally irrelevant to analyzing anything with the Blazers.

Do you just want to spend hours analyzing what random people post on the Internet - or do you want to analyze what's happening in the actual NBA?

If you don't care, why are you commenting? It's an interesting conversation to me. You're not only analyzing what a random person says on the internet, you're trying to police it.

Just totally disagree Miami could acquire two firsts for Herro. Im skeptical they could acquire 1. I wouldn't be surprised if Brogdon had more trade value than Herro.

Dude gets injured and his team goes from the playin to the NBA finals. Not even sure he's viewed as worth more than nothing on his 100 million deal.

Jordan Poole has accomplished more, won some big games leading to a title. He was traded WITH a pick for washed Chris Paul.

But you claim Herro is worth two FRP? LMAO

Never once claimed Herro was worth two first round picks. We talked about this all off-season bro. You're getting after me for having a conversation about hypothetical value yet here you are having a conversation about hypothetical value.

 

[Natebishop3]

Zach Lowe perfectly sums up this entire fiasco from an outsider’s POV in this pod. Starts at the 53:00 mark. Definitely worth the listen.

I'm a huge fan of Howard Beck.

Fact is this, I haven't found a single national pundit (outside of Miami) who thinks we did badly. They all think we did fantastic. They all have our back on how things went.