I can feel them coming... the Lillard Wars

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Wizard Mentor said:
I won't remember Roy as a scorer, I'll remember him as the best player in the league to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line on the last play.

Until he does that a few times he's "just" Derrick Rose.
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I know it's just summer league, but didn't he do just that in the first game? The step back three after leading a 20-point comeback in the second half?
 
Wizard Mentor said:
I can let Ed O. defend himself, but teams that are rebuilding are looking for "upside" players, and they are the younger ones.
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I agree with it as a generalization, but it's totally useless as a blanket statement applied to individuals, which is what Ed O. always ends up doing. Guys like Roy, Wade, and Battier (just a few off the top of my head) are way more valuable to rebuilding or established teams than the majority of young "upside" players.
 
handiman said:
I agree with it as a generalization, but it's totally useless as a blanket statement applied to individuals, which is what Ed O. always ends up doing. Guys like Roy, Wade, and Battier (just a few off the top of my head) are way more valuable to rebuilding or established teams than the majority of young "upside" players.
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So... cherry-picking three great examples is a valid comparison against "the majority" of younger players?

That's just a wrong-headed way of looking at things.

The FACT is that if two players are equally capable in college and one is 18 and the other is 21, the 18 year-old is the superior prospect barring something else overriding it.

And another FACT is that if two players are dominating in college and one is at a big school and the other is at a small one, the big school kid is usually the superior prospect.

Put those two things together (old, small-school) and you have to be a truly special player to be a better prospect than those circumstances usually dictate.

It's possible that you are capable of sniffing out these truly special players, but I have no confidence in my ability to do it. I also have almost no confidence in NBA general managers to be able to consistently do it. As such, I prefer younger players who are very good at big schools.

I will definitely be wrong on some players... but who isn't?

Ed O.
 
college stats have to be taken with a grain of salt anyways, didnt nolan average like 20ppg at duke?
 
to answer the OP's original question - the war has been won, he looks very good, total justifying his pick at #6 and will be the PGOTF and at the least a very solid PG in the NBA. The battles to be fought will be how good he can, lets enjoy the "LILLARD YEARS"
 
Blazinaway said:
to answer the OP's original question - the war has been won, he looks very good, total justifying his pick at #6 and will he be the PGOTF and at the least a very solid PG in the NBA. The battles to be fought will be how good he can, lets enjoy the "LILLARD YEARS"
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He looks amazing. Clearly we made the right choice and the NBA will award us eight NBA championships after his three summer league games.

He looks amazing... but when the team starts losing and if he's struggling while shooting a lot... I think we'll see that the debate is still alive.

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
So... cherry-picking three great examples is a valid comparison against "the majority" of younger players?
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No, you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with disproving that younger players generally have more upside. The flaw with your position is that you instantly discount the possibility of an older player improving just as much. Time and time again.

The FACT is that if two players are equally capable in college and one is 18 and the other is 21, the 18 year-old is the superior prospect barring something else overriding it.
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No disagreement there, but when has that been the case? It's usually a matter of an older player being superior (i.e., Lillard vs. his PG competition), with the question being is it by enough to negate the age factor.

And another FACT is that if two players are dominating in college and one is at a big school and the other is at a small one, the big school kid is usually the superior prospect.
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"FACT ... usually" ... uh, seriously?

Put those two things together (old, small-school) and you have to be a truly special player to be a better prospect than those circumstances usually dictate.
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And yet you discounted Lillard without taking into account that he could be that truly special player. That's very close-minded.

I will definitely be wrong on some players... but who isn't?
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Everyone gets it wrong from time to time, but the odds of getting it wrong go up dramatically when you stick to tired stereotypes instead of objective analysis.

Look back at the 80's and 90's. Before Garnett, most guys coming out of college were what we would now consider old players. They were still pre-prime and improving steadily. Nothing has changed there. It's just that most top tier players come out early now, so the guys that don't have a stigma attached. Doesn't mean squat, though, without looking at the individual.
 
I seriously love S2. We're so weird and dysfunctional and entertaining.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
I seriously love S2. We're so weird and dysfunctional and entertaining.
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Absolutely the truth.

I can say I was pro-Lillard, which is fine and dandy, but what I don't get is how posters can completely trash a draft pick before he's played even a minute in summer league, let alone a regular season game.

I also have to admit that I was pro-Nolan Smith, and defended that pick.
 
Yeah I liked Smith too... but I'm generally pretty clueless about college basketball.
 
HCP said:
So make a sticky thread so that everybody can choose side NOW and not later. We can all go back and look at which posters wanted him and who didn't. When he is an all star in 3 years or when he's out of the league in 3 years, we will be able to know who was right and wrong. Wish we had done this with Greg.
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Damn...... why don't more people listen to the HCP?
 
HCP said:
Damn...... why don't more people listen to the HCP?
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Hey, didn't see your message on my old avatar until today. My iPhone doesn't alert me. Check out the new avatar, and look at the USC fan in the background!
 
I saw that today. Hey I found the DeathStar pic and put it on my facebook page........ the few NERD friends I do have went out of their way to inform me that the DeathStar was destroyed twice and my Ducks would also be destroyed.
 
I'm sure Ed O loves seeing this thread being bumped.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
If I know Ed, he's way happier that Lillard is good than he is embarrassed by his opinion. He's results-oriented.
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Ed is a firm believer in the age argument for draft picks. I'm sure he'd say Lillard is already at his ceiling, while some young player who sucks could potentially be better. :)
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
Im not a lillard fan, but the guy can shoot wayyy better than Russell. I think that's extremely important for a PG that plays with a star big man. Westbrook plays with a star wing so he doesnt have to be the greatest shooter.
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Clearly was a little down on the guy, but thought he was def a great shooter, even for NBA
 
No, Ed is too embarrassed to reply!
 
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