I don't see how we can rebuild around Dame

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No, I'm not saying European prospects were ignored. I'm not sure how you could get that out of my post.
really?

they respected Euro stats well enough to draft a guy #1, but essentially 30 teams didn't respect Gasol to let him drop to 48 in the draft the following year?

And you're trying to say that Gasol was a better prospect as a 24 yr old rookie?
 
just fyi... we drafted Rudy Fernandez 24 picks ahead of this "excellent prospect" Marc Gasol in the exact same draft.
 
really?

they respected Euro stats well enough to draft a guy #1, but essentially 30 teams didn't respect Gasol to let him drop to 48 in the draft the following year?

Saying that European performance is less respected than now doesn't mean that you either completely discount them or that you highly rate every good young European player. Not to mention Bargnani rated out better by traditional scouting measures, like athleticism. I don't think it's at all clear that European stats were the crucial thing for Barganani. Gasol wasn't a very good athlete, nor was he a great shooter at the time like Nowitzki, the guy a lot of teams were trying to find again in Europe. Actual performance, rather than eye test, was what Gasol had.

And you're trying to say that Gasol was a better prospect as a 24 yr old rookie?

Better prospect than who?
 
just fyi... we drafted Rudy Fernandez 24 picks ahead of this "excellent prospect" Marc Gasol in the exact same draft.

Sure, and a lot of people at the time in this community postulated that we could have traded for Pau, using Rudy. Whether or not that's true.
 
Saying that European performance is less respected than now doesn't mean that you either completely discount them or that you highly rate every good young European player. Not to mention Bargnani rated out better by traditional scouting measures, like athleticism. I don't think it's at all clear that European stats were the crucial thing for Barganani.

getting lost in the weeds here, but i still think your premise that Marc Gasol (before he ever played and NBA game as the 48th draft pick while being a 24 yr old rookie having mediocre athleticism and AVERAGE stats on an OK team in Europe) being a better trade chip than any of our young guys is just flat out false.

no one knew who the hell he was. the only reason the Grizz included him was because he went to HS in Memphis and figured he would help them tank.
 
here are Marc Gasol's stats before the NBA:

upload_2021-12-17_13-10-24.png

so, when Memphis traded for him he was a 24 year old C who had just completed a Euro-season when he averaged 16 & 8 (17.5 & 9 per 36) while shooting 65% from the floor and drawing 7 FT's a game.
 
Marc Gasol wasn't an unknown like Greg Brown. Gasol was considered an excellent prospect who had already played well in Europe.

I respectfully disagree that Portland has "lots of guys" as valuable as Marc Gasol back then. I don't think even Little is as valuable as prospect Marc Gasol and Little is by far the most valuable young player Portland has. Marc Gasol was the reason that Memphis was willing to part with Pau Gasol--Portland doesn't have a young player who could command a top-level player in return.
Ok. I seem remember there being quite a bit of question about Marc, but I could be mistaken... Seems like he'd have been taken higher in the draft if he were that valuable...
 
no one knew who the hell he was.

You not knowing who he was is not the same as no one knowing who he was. I knew who he was and I don't even follow European basketball. I think you're biasing this based on your own perceptions of Marc Gasol--you didn't know who he was, so he couldn't have been significant. I don't think Memphis considers the deal without Marc Gasol and I don't think any young player Portland has swings a deal on a similar type of player today.
 
You not knowing who he was is not the same as no one knowing who he was. I knew who he was and I don't even follow European basketball. I think you're biasing this based on your own perceptions of Marc Gasol--you didn't know who he was, so he couldn't have been significant. I don't think Memphis considers the deal without Marc Gasol and I don't think any young player Portland has swings a deal on a similar type of player today.
And if he was so valuable why did he go #48? We have a lot of guys more valuable than a #48 pick...
 
You not knowing who he was is not the same as no one knowing who he was. I knew who he was and I don't even follow European basketball. I think you're biasing this based on your own perceptions of Marc Gasol--you didn't know who he was, so he couldn't have been significant. I don't think Memphis considers the deal without Marc Gasol and I don't think any young player Portland has swings a deal on a similar type of player today.
lol i sat up til 4AM watching our guy Rudy and Rubio tear up the ACB but alright. You might even find my old posts on bballfroum.com with shady links to those games. Marc averaged just 18 mpg on their national team months before that trade. They actually played a guy name Felipe Reyes ahead of him.

You should have been sending KP some emails about all your knowledge of Gasol. Maybe we would have recovered easier from the Oden disaster.
 
And if he was so valuable why did he go #48? We have a lot of guys more valuable than a #48 pick...
as i was saying... revisionist history. Marc being anything more than an afterthought in that trade is just a lie.
 
You should have been sending KP some emails about all your knowledge of Gasol.

I never said I was an expert on him or that I knew he'd be great. I said I knew who he was despite not following international basketball, so this idea that "no one knew who he was" was nonsense--and you knew it was nonsense when you typed it if you really were as plugged into international basketball as you just said.
 
I never said I was an expert on him or that I knew he'd be great. I said I knew who he was despite not following international basketball, so this idea that "no one knew who he was" was nonsense--and you knew it was nonsense when you typed it if you really were as plugged into international basketball as you just said.
this is a really strange hill to die on. I mean... Nas/Ant/Brown are all not far removed from being top 10 prospects in their HS ranks. To continually argue that a 24 yr old overweight C with questionable mobility is a better prospect with more trade value is just weird.

That trade is universally regarded as one of the most lopsided in the history of the league.
 
That trade is universally regarded as one of the most lopsided in the history of the league.

It was considered that way at the time, when people acted like the Lakers gave up nothing for Pau Gasol. It's not considered that way anymore. And I still think, based on what the Grizzlies said about Marc Gasol in the aftermath of the trade, that they don't do the deal without Marc included. So, as I said, I don't think there's a player the caliber of Pau Gasol then that Portland could get today where Little/Simons/Brown would be the crucial factor.
 
I already addressed this when illmatic brought it up.
Right, you said many teams didn't value him. I think we have many players that many teams would value enough to pick in the first round if they were available. Nobody valued Marc Gasol that highly. Not even Memphis.

So while I appreciate the feedback, I feel like my point stands.

Marc Gasol wasn't much if at all more highly valued around the league when traded to the Grizzlies than guys we could offer.

*edited. Sorry, the Gasol brothers are confusing me*
 
The knock I remember on rookie Marc Gasol is that he wasn't in NBA shape....he was fat.....the trade worked out but I don't remember any rookie buzz about him coming into the league like his older brother had....he flourished in Memphis and that's where he got in game shape....kudos to him for turning it into a great career...at the time the whole league thought the Lakers got gifted Pau Gasol ...although Memphis came out of it OK in the end..the Lakers came out of it with championships
 
Please, PLEASE find something other than “this hill to die on”. its becoming one of the most over used cliches ive ever seen. But ive only see it on this forum…

I cringe every time i read it. No one is wanting to die and where is the hill even?
 
So let me get this straight:
"Give money to the poor!"
"How do you know they want it? Stop trying to think of what other people want! That's selfish!"

How about we keep words for what they actually mean. Dame, being human, wants a lot of things, not all of them consistent. I'm sure top of his list is winning a championship with the Blazers. Great. Sadly, that's not going to happen (barring every other team losing all its good players to Covid). Also, if we hold on to Dame too long it will set back any rebuild for several years, and it'll just be sad watching him jack up shots for lottery teams as we get mad at him. I think, because of they way he died young, people have forgotten how shitty Kobe's last couple of years were with the Lakers. And that's a team that can rely on signing any big free agent out there. We're a team whose greatest FA acquisition ever was Brian Grant.
It's a popular saying, and used fairly regularly.

https://grammarist.com/idiom/the-hill-you-want-to-die-on/
True. There are many sayings from the ol' days that are still around. I think as time goes by, more and more of these phrases will go by the wayside. There still are a lot of middle aged to senior ,Baby Boomers, in here . At 57, i come in at the end of that. But i still use many of the phrases today.
 
True. There are many sayings from the ol' days that are still around. I think as time goes by, more and more of these phrases will go by the wayside. There still are a lot of middle aged to senior ,Baby Boomers, in here . At 57, i come in at the end of that. But i still use many of the phrases today.
57? You're still a young whippersnapper!
 
The knock I remember on rookie Marc Gasol is that he wasn't in NBA shape....he was fat.....the trade worked out but I don't remember any rookie buzz about him coming into the league like his older brother had....he flourished in Memphis and that's where he got in game shape....kudos to him for turning it into a great career...at the time the whole league thought the Lakers got gifted Pau Gasol ...although Memphis came out of it OK in the end..the Lakers came out of it with championships
Don't forget that he grew up in Memphis (went to High School there), so they very probably had a much better handle on his abilities than any other front office.
Also: Gasol was drafted in 2007, traded in early 2008. In the meantime he had an MVP-of-the-Spanish League season. MAYbe his stock went up a little bit after he was drafted?
ALSO: in 2008 he was no longer super-pudgy:
200px-Marc_Gasol.JPG
 
So let me get this straight:
"Give money to the poor!"
"How do you know they want it? Stop trying to think of what other people want! That's selfish!"

How about we keep words for what they actually mean. Dame, being human, wants a lot of things, not all of them consistent. I'm sure top of his list is winning a championship with the Blazers. Great. Sadly, that's not going to happen (barring every other team losing all its good players to Covid). Also, if we hold on to Dame too long it will set back any rebuild for several years, and it'll just be sad watching him jack up shots for lottery teams as we get mad at him. I think, because of they way he died young, people have forgotten how shitty Kobe's last couple of years were with the Lakers. And that's a team that can rely on signing any big free agent out there. We're a team whose greatest FA acquisition ever was Brian Grant.
Your lack of imagination and memory is astounding. Of course we can rebuild a contender around Dame. The only GM we've ever had with Dame has been one that was hellbent on the idea that he and CJ were the duo to build a championship team around, without that hindering the team building process we have years to get there if we start the rebuild in a bold way right now. As far as your memory is concerned... Kobe was three years older than Dame when he blew out his Achilles, unlike abdominal tendon tears that take 6-8 weeks to recover from if you opt for surgery Achilles tears... especially ruptures can take anywhere from a year and a half to never recovering from them. Kobe at 34 had also been playing a full NBA schedule plus deep into the playoffs for 16 seasons at that point. So yeah Kobe's 18th and 19th seasons in the league looked pretty bad. Dame isn't dealing with ruptured Achilles and he's in 10th season. Kobe won both of his MVPs after turning 30. I'm not the one that started the Kobe v Dame comparison, you did but if your going to make a bad comparison at least bring into consideration that your comparison makes it look like Dame is just now starting the second half of his career.
 
I think Dame has psychic powers, he felt that CJ would get wounded this year and he needs a good shooter with a mc prefix on his last name to excel. Once Ben Mclemore started to emerge - we are starting to see Dame getting back in shape.

So, clearly the way to build around Dame is to scour the Scottish highlands for unsigned good shooters - a mcgregor, macloud, macalester - any will do.
 
I think Dame has psychic powers, he felt that CJ would get wounded this year and he needs a good shooter with a mc prefix on his last name to excel. Once Ben Mclemore started to emerge - we are starting to see Dame getting back in shape.

So, clearly the way to build around Dame is to scour the Scottish highlands for unsigned good shooters - a mcgregor, macloud, macalester - any will do.
And if we could get so deep as to sign a Macmelon, Mcloof and Mcormick for vet mins??

instant highlander contender!!!!
 

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