If KCP/Otto Porter get max deals..

[Destroyer of Worlds]

It's because there's a loud group of people who thinks Crabbe is a very good player who's well worth his salary and a loud group of people who thinks Crabbe is terrible and hugely overpaid. And the arguments light up this forum every week or so.

Who thinks Crabbe is 'very good'? Yikes lol

He is worth his salary based on the average rotation player seemingly getting 20+ million is all I'm trying to say.

 

[Reep]

If I pay $500 for a stick of gum, I didn't over-pay, because I was obviously willing to pay that amount so I paid the market value for it.

Not quite. Market value is what the average person would pay, not what one person would pay.

 

[Boob-No-More]

So give ET a clear cut role. Have him guard the other team's best perimeter scorer. He is basically the same size as Roberson. What big SF's can he not guard? (Besides the ones no one can cover)

He can't guard PGs the way Roberson can. He just does not have the lateral quickness. And, of course, he does not have the length to guard Durant. Aminu and Harkless are better suited to that match up.

And you see, that's the problem. In OKC, Roberson is the clear cut best player they have for all of those match ups. Turner is only the best player for very specific match ups. So, you can't really give him that kind of clear cut role.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

Who thinks Crabbe is 'very good'? Yikes lol

He is worth his salary based on the average rotation player seemingly getting 20+ million is all I'm trying to say.

I wasn't aiming that at you. I do get the sense that his biggest fans on this board think he'd make a strong starter but he just doesn't get to show that on this team.

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

If I pay $500 for a stick of gum, I didn't over-pay, because I was obviously willing to pay that amount so I paid the market value for it.

If sticks of gum the following year started going for $625, you'd look pretty smart though, huh?

 

[Destroyer of Worlds]

I wasn't aiming that at you. I do get the sense that his biggest fans on this board think he'd make a strong starter but he just doesn't get to show that on this team.

Ah, well, I understand the divisiveness then. He's a nice rotation piece, imo.

 

[Sinobas]

Not quite. Market value is what the average person would pay, not what one person would pay.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If sticks of gum the following year started going for $625, you'd look pretty smart though, huh?

But if gumballs were still only a dime, you'd look pretty stupid.

When something becomes overpriced, it's always prudent to look at the alternatives. Crabbe is essentially being paid starter money, because BRK viewed him as a starter. He will never be a starter here. So, for what we are getting out of him, a below average 6th man, he is overpaid.

BNM

 

[STOMP]

It's not a mistake. It's the market and thats what it says they're worth. One day some of you will accept it.

& maybe one day you'll realize that just because others are making poor decisions doesn't mean that you are required to do so as well. If a team chooses to spend a high percentage of it's money on mediocre talent, they won't have that money available to spend when better opportunities present themselves for competing for a championship. For the Blazers to be a relevant, it is especially important for them to make good use of their available contract $$$ as they don't have the endorsement opportunities that others do. Maybe you've noticed that good FA players are going to teams with other great/good players and not to teams filled with mediocre talents who're tied up longterm?

STOMP

 

[Pinwheel1]

He can't guard PGs the way Roberson can. He just does not have the lateral quickness. And, of course, he does not have the length to guard Durant. Aminu and Harkless are better suited to that match up.

And you see, that's the problem. In OKC, Roberson is the clear cut best player they have for all of those match ups. Turner is only the best player for very specific match ups. So, you can't really give him that kind of clear cut role.

BNM

I agree he can not guard PG's but he can guard SG's and SF's much the same way Wes did. With a big line up of Nurk and Collins, I don't mind seeing CJ, Dame, and ET in there together. 3 players who can actually dribble and pass. ET plays physical like Wes did. Sure some tall SF's will shoot over him but others will get it stripped if they try to put the ball on the floor.

Plus the years he started, he had better rebounding numbers than Harkless.

 

[TBpup]

Any move by the Nets GM should have it's 'reality factor' questioned. All those picks they gave up for ageing players, Gerald Wallace for #6 pick Damian Lillard, offering that much for Crabbe. One could easily suggest that just because they do something doesn't mean it is what any other team would come close to considering as 'market value.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Any move by the Nets GM should have it's 'reality factor' questioned. All those picks they gave up for ageing players, Gerald Wallace for #6 pick Damian Lillard, offering that much for Crabbe. One could easily suggest that just because they do something doesn't mean it is what any other team would come close to considering as 'market value.

You have to also factor in the fact that, by trading away all those draft picks for aging players, they painted themselves into a corner. Usually, when a team sucks, they are rewarded with high draft picks, which, in theory, will eventually lead to a better record (less sucking). By trading away those draft picks for players that are now long one, other teams (us included) are being rewarded for BRK sucking.

Without any influx of young talent via the draft, and without being a destination of choice for free agents (mostly due to all the sucking, but also the high taxes and poor weather) their only option for acquiring young players it to overpay them to come there. That's what they attempted with Crabbe, but it failed. I'm sure they thought their offer was so onerous that we would not match. Well, we fucked them, and ourselves, over by matching their "toxic" offer sheet.

Don't ever judge fair market value based on what someone who is desperate will pay. A man who is dying of thirst will gladly trade an ounce of gold for an ounce of water. That does not mean water suddenly has the same fair market value as gold.

BNM

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

They play the same minutes (actually, Crabbe plays a fraction more). So, why does Crabbe take so many fewer shots? He's usually the second or 3rd option, when he's in the game. Redick starts and is, at best the third option when he's in the game.

The difference is Crabbe is passive and tentative. He absolutely will not shoot unless he is wide open. Redick is cold blooded and will not hesitate to take a shot with a hand in his face. That's why Redick is a solid starter and Crabbe is a below average 6th man.

BNM

Answer: CJ McCollum is on the court for most of Crabbe's minutes.

I don't think I have to explain myself any further.

 

[Minstrel]

Answer: CJ McCollum is on the court for most of Crabbe's minutes..

I don't think I have to explain myself any further.

You do, because Redick shared the floor with Paul and Griffin and still finds plenty of shots. McCollum takes plenty of shots, but certainly not every shot. Crabbe should be able to find plenty of shots, were he willing to take some tougher ones. I don't think he has the confidence and, unless he's suffering from low self-esteem or something, that's probably founded on what he considers to be his skillset (shooting off the dribble, shooting with a hand in your face are both skills and not skills he exhibits much).

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Answer: CJ McCollum is on the court for most of Crabbe's minutes.

I don't think I have to explain myself any further.

Noah Vonleh and Ed Davis are the only regular players on the Blazers that used a lower percentage of possessions during their time on the court than Allen Crabbe did. Even pump-fake kings Meyers and Aminu were more likely to actually shoot the ball than Crabbe was.

Dude had a green light, because his shooting is basically all he has to offer the team, and he refused to use it. No, CJ is not to blame for Crabbe's timidity.

 

[Scalma]

Chris Paul, the best pure point guard in the NBA, in the same sentence as CJ McCollum.

I can't.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Answer: CJ McCollum is on the court for most of Crabbe's minutes.

I don't think I have to explain myself any further.

So, that makes Crabbe the second option.

You do realize that J.J. Redick plays next to either Fatty Felon or Jamal Crawford when CP3 is not in the game, right? Both of those guys have a lower AST% than C.J. C.J. might not be the perfect back up PG but he's a more capable and willing passer than the Clippers back up PGs.

BNM

 

[Minstrel]

McCollum has averaged a ~20 Assist Rate the past two seasons. He's not (remotely) Chris Paul as a passer, but he is a good and willing one for a non-point guard. The point, though, is that Crabbe being a second option behind McCollum in no way closes the door to getting up as many shots as Redick, who's the third option behind Griffin and Paul. If McCollum were a black hole or something, perhaps there would be something to that, but he isn't.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Noah Vonleh and Ed Davis are the only regular players on the Blazers that used a lower percentage of possessions during their time on the court than Allen Crabbe did. Even pump-fake kings Meyers and Aminu were more likely to actually shoot the ball than Crabbe was.

Dude had a green light, because his shooting is basically all he has to offer the team, and he refused to use it. No, CJ is not to blame for Crabbe's timidity.

View attachment 14954

1 million likes to you sir. Nice to see someone who gets it.

I love the way suddenly Allen Crabbe's passivity is someone else's fault. It's like people here intentionally forget how Stotts flow offense relies on constantly moving the ball. To those who think it's C.J.'s fault Crabbe doesn't shoot more, watch a game sometime. The Blazers have very few positions where one player dominates the ball. The ball is constantly moving around the perimeter, and inside and outside, making the defense shift and react until someone has an open shot. Guys like Meyers and Crabbe and Aminu have plenty of opportunities to take shots. It's up to them to capitalize on those opportunities.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

McCollum has averaged a ~20 Assist Rate the past two seasons. He's not (remotely) Chris Paul as a passer, but he is a good and willing one for a non-point guard. The point, though, is that Crabbe being a second option behind McCollum in no way closes the door to getting up as many shots as Redick, who's the third option behind Griffin and Paul. If McCollum were a black hole or something, perhaps there would be something to that, but he isn't.

Someone else who gets it...

BNM

 

[andalusian]

Is no one else shocked that based on USG% we traded our 1/4 man, 3/4 amazing 4th highest USG% player for Hamiltons?

 

[chzbrgr]

If Crabbe was an UFA I'd put good money on him getting the same contract he got last year.

And how do we know what Crabbes market is or isn't? Just because you don't value him doesn't mean GMs feel the same way. Lately Olshey has mentioned Crabbe with Dame, CJ, and Nurk among the core. Didn't mention Harkless, Turner, or anybody else.

Then why wont someone trade for him?

 

[Scalma]

Then why wont someone trade for him?

Who says we want to get rid of him? The fans?

 

[chzbrgr]

Answer: CJ McCollum is on the court for most of Crabbe's minutes.

I don't think I have to explain myself any further.

Somehow Nurk found enough shots... weird

 

[chzbrgr]

Who says we want to get rid of him? The fans?

Our luxury tax bill maybe?

 

[Scalma]

Our luxury tax bill maybe?

Because trading crabbe is the only way to get under it?

And I'll start worrying about the luxury tax when the team does.

 

[chzbrgr]

Because trading crabbe is the only way to get under it?

And I'll start worrying about the luxury tax when the team does.

I mean if you want to retain any of your teams value aka Nurk you probably want his ~20% cap hold for someone who actually produces on the court and that goes a long way to getting there. Him and turner are the obvious candidates cause of the numbers attached to them. Turner is the better playmaker and defender so the obvious choice of the two I want to stay.

 

[Denny Crane]

Redick is a lot better then Crabbe and Turner.

Yeah. You want to revise stance you took last offseason that Olshey's signings were wise?

Not at all. I think he'll be wise the the salary situation this year, too.

 

[Sinobas]

Not at all. I think he'll be wise the the salary situation this year, too.

Getting rid of the contracts he signed last year.....or getting rid of other more decent contracts because of them?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

If they get huge $$$, it'll mean that Crabbe and ET are more tradeable, and that their trade value goes up.

Feelings about their salaries, abilities, and histories are mostly immaterial.