OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues" (1 Viewer)

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barfo said:
I have a solution. Let's just get rid of sports altogether. It's inherently unfair, all of us have different bodies. There's no reason I should be expected to compete against the likes of LeBron just because we both have penises. His is so much smaller, after all, so he is able to jump higher.

barfo
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You aren't expected to compete against the likes of LeBron though. That's a completely different league, so it all works out exactly as it should.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There will not be blowback from men. Any man who complains will look like a childish bigot and that will be the end of it.

I don't care about their gender or sex, I care about the built in advantages a person who is born male has over a person who is born female. Even after complete transition, studies show they are 10% faster and stronger than other women. That's a huge difference. Like PEDs huge.
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And yet cis women are still beating them the majority of the time.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Is anyone doing this? Frankly I wouldn't care. I have played against women before in basketball and I don't see why it would matter if it's a trans man. If they're good at the sport, they're good at the sport.
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It's out there. You will mostly hear that they don't want transgender athletes to end up getting hurt. (That's the risk transgender athletes take if they want to compete). But, the real issue is they are afraid of getting beat by someone who was born with lady parts.
 
Chris Craig said:
And yet cis women are still beating them the majority of the time.
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The cis women are incredible athletes, no doubt about it. But they shouldn't have to worry about beating a trans female any more than they should have to worry about beating a player on PEDs. And it's a much simpler problem to solve.
 
Chris Craig said:
It's out there. You will mostly hear that they don't want transgender athletes to end up getting hurt. (That's the risk transgender athletes take if they want to compete). But, the real issue is they are afraid of getting beat by someone who was born with lady parts.
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And I have no sympathy for these people. If you're afraid to lose to a girl you should train harder. If you can't train harder you should drop a level or retire. I think this is how most people feel.

And a trans male who could actually compete and win at this level would be an absolute hero, rightly so.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I really hate the term "cis."

It does not sound complimentary at all.
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Cis isn't an insult, just like trans isn't an insult.

Maybe you're just feeling weird about being put in a group when you know you're an individual, and don't like being categorized by some arbitrary aspect of your existence that isn't even that important until some other person you don't even know that well makes it important without asking you.
 
Hoopguru said:
Why does there have to be a cis?
Isnt it just the sex at birth indicator?
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Assigned male/female at birth is not only more cumbersome than cis but also less specific since it applies to trans people as well. Cis is actually derived from a chemical term. Cis and trans. Had chem 101?
 
crandc said:
Assigned male/female at birth is not only more cumbersome than cis but also less specific since it applies to trans people as well. Cis is actually derived from a chemical term. Cis and trans. Had chem 101?
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Thanks, first time I heard that. Chem in hs 53 years ago. Not sure why more cumbersome though?
If a person is trans why cant Trans male or female work?
 
Hoopguru said:
Why does there have to be a cis?
Isnt it just the sex at birth indicator?
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Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, seems like the default would just be male or female. Man or woman. And you'd add anything extra to how you refer to yourself if you want.
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Cis denotes that one is the same gender now they were at birth. Not sex. There seems to be alot of confusing sex and gender when it comes to transgender people and generally perhaps.

A person can be born a male (with male genetalia) or a female (female genetalia) but not have a gender that matches that, which might not be discovered till later. Hence transgender people, who are born a different sex than gender.

I'm not sure why the word cis seems to make some of you feel so uncomfortable.

A cis person is not transgender. There are trans women, people born with male anatomy, but female gender. Trans men are people born with female anatomy but male genders. They both can undergo surgeries and hormone therapies so that their sex and gender match(transexual).
 
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Chris Craig said:
Cis denotes that one is the same gender now they were at birth. Not sex. There seems to be alot of confusing sex and gender when it comes to transgendered people and generally perhaps.

A person can be born a male (with male genetalia) or a female (female genetalia) but not have a gender that matches that, which might not be discovered till later. Hence transgender people, who are born a different sex than gender.

I'm not sure why the word cis seems to make some of you feel so uncomfortable.

A cis person is not transgender. There are trans women, people born with male anatomy, but female gender. Trans men are people born with female anatomy but male genders. They both can undergo surgeries and hormone therapies so that their sex and gender match(transexual).
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Seems overly complicated. It seems like male and female should suffice, and if a person has another preference they should feel free to use it.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Seems overly complicated. It seems like male and female should suffice, and if a person has another preference they should feel free to use it.
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It's not at all. There needs to be differentiation when speaking of trans and non trans people. Cis is a very easy prefix to provide that. Using just female and male doesn't always work because transgendered people are male and female too.
 
Chris Craig said:
It's not at all. There needs to be differentiation when speaking of trans and non trans people. Cis is a very easy prefix to provide that. Using just female and male doesn't always work because transgendered people are male and female too.
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Why cant they use trans when they determine they are? Most know what trans means now days.
 
Chris Craig said:
It's not at all. There needs to be differentiation when speaking of trans and non trans people. Cis is a very easy prefix to provide that. Using just female and male doesn't always work because transgendered people are male and female too.
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Yeah, makes sense.
 
Chris Craig said:
There is going to be blowback either way. If they change the rules and force transgender athletes to compete based on the sex they were born with there will be blowback. If they allow transgender athletes to compete as they wish, there will be blowback from women/girls who claim it's not fair or men who complain that they don't want compete against athletes who were born as women.

The interests of transgendered athletes are just as important as the interest of other athletes, if not more because they are dealing with more than just winning or losing.

When it comes to women's sports the majority of those who win are cis women, despite competing against transgendered athletes. Transgendered athletes arent winning medals in the Olympics.

Maybe, it is only the start. Maybe more transgender athletes will start winning and the idea of that makes people uncomfortable.

There are faux worries that female athletes are going to suffer injuries at the hands of transgendered athletes, or that transgendered athletes will suffer competing against cis men. That hasn't happened. There are rules in place to greatly limit the possibilities of that.

There seems to be alot of fearmongering and transphobia poorly disguised as legitimate concerns. There seems to be a misconception or a confusion between sex and gender. Just because a transgender person was born with a penis at birth, does not mean their gender was also many. Transgender people are born with the opposite gender, but often don't discover this till later, and then change their sex to match their gender. They are not simply choosing to change from man to woman or woman to man.

This an in issue being made overly complex because of a few transgender athletes started winning.
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Why does it have to be this "All or Nothing" situation though? Yes it's come up because a few trans women have won events but it could become an issue down the road as I think you're underestimating what people will do to win. I don't think we should be running out and pushing laws in an attempt to stop this 'national crisis' as some politicians are doing, but I also don't think we should be burying our heads in the sand and dismissing it altogether like your post is implying. As with everything in life (but not on the internet) there can be a happy medium there!
 
YamTastic said:
Cis isn't an insult, just like trans isn't an insult.

Maybe you're just feeling weird about being put in a group when you know you're an individual, and don't like being categorized by some arbitrary aspect of your existence that isn't even that important until some other person you don't even know that well makes it important without asking you.
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I think plenty of groups have changed what society calls them because they don't like the term. I just personally don't like the sound of cis. I could totally see why the trans community wouldn't like that term because of the long history associated with it, and I would fully support if they ever wanted to change it.

Just as an example though, little people have changed their term multiple times. I know some people refuse to alter what they call them, but overall I can totally understand wanting to change a term if it has a long history.
 
Chris Craig said:
Cis denotes that one is the same gender now they were at birth. Not sex. There seems to be alot of confusing sex and gender when it comes to transgendered people and generally perhaps.

A person can be born a male (with male genetalia) or a female (female genetalia) but not have a gender that matches that, which might not be discovered till later. Hence transgender people, who are born a different sex than gender.

I'm not sure why the word cis seems to make some of you feel so uncomfortable.

A cis person is not transgender. There are trans women, people born with male anatomy, but female gender. Trans men are people born with female anatomy but male genders. They both can undergo surgeries and hormone therapies so that their sex and gender match(transexual).
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I'm not uncomfortable with it. I just don't like the sound of it. Maybe it's just because the first time I saw it used it was being used basically as an insult, but if you gave me a list of 10 different options for the same meaning, I think cis would probably be at the bottom of the list.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm not uncomfortable with it. I just don't like the sound of it. Maybe it's just because the first time I saw it used it was being used basically as an insult, but if you gave me a list of 10 different options for the same meaning, I think cis would probably be at the bottom of the list.
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What was the insult?
 
YamTastic said:
And why did they say that? What led the conversation to that point?
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I don't' remember. This was years ago. I had never even heard the term "cis" before. I just don't care for the term. Also, it wasn't aimed at me. I was a bystander, which is also part of the reason why I don't remember much else about it.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't' remember. This was years ago. I had never even heard the term "cis" before. I just don't care for the term.
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Well, that's okay. I get called a lot of things I don't like daily, so we have something in common!

You are cis so I will call you cis if I want, but I promise not to call you scum.
 
bigbailes said:
Why does it have to be this "All or Nothing" situation though? Yes it's come up because a few trans women have won events but it could become an issue down the road as I think you're underestimating what people will do to win. I don't think we should be running out and pushing laws in an attempt to stop this 'national crisis' as some politicians are doing, but I also don't think we should be burying our heads in the sand and dismissing it altogether like your post is implying. As with everything in life (but not on the internet) there can be a happy medium there!
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It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Alot of people would like it to be all or nothing on the other side of things, forcing all transgender athletes to compete against men or to segregate them into their own categories of competition.

Forcing all transgender athletes to compete against only men, doesn't seem right, and segregating them into their own grouping of completion is hurtful and can be perceived as discriminatory to the transgender community and may well be.

I don't agree with making laws in opposition to transgendered athletes competing either.

I haven't dismissed anything. I have neutrally looked at this. One side we have women and men complaining about having to compete against transgender athletes. Transgender athletes have been competing for years. Now that a couple of them have finally won, there are complaints. It does seem like overreaction to me.

Do transgender athletes have an unfair advantage? Is it costing women scholarships etc, or is just people being butthurt. How much of an affect has it really had to allow transgender athletes to compete with other athletes of their gender?

This needs more looking into.

On the other side we have the transgendered athletes. It doesn't seem anyone gives to shits about their place in this. How demoralizing it it is to be rejected like this. They already have to deal with so much. They are putting themselves out there to compete, only to face more rejection because of something that's not their fault.

Can you see how demoralizing it would be to force someone with a female gender to compete against men. Some are ok with forcing this humiliation on them.
 
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