OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues" (1 Viewer)

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SlyPokerDog said:
More than 480,000 compete as NCAA athletes, and just a select few within each sport move on to compete at the professional or Olympic level.

https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2015/3/2/estimated-probability-of-competing-in-college-athletics.aspx​

That is 480,000 a year. And so far I'm only finding that 31 transgendered athletes have ever competed in college sports.

Again, is this really a problem?
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To the women who lose to her, yes. But I understand that now we don’t care because it’s only a few swimmers.
 
Chris Craig said:
No you haven't. But, why use mockery or sarcasm? What does it achieve?

All I am saying is, it doesn't do well to take things personally. If something someone says doesn't apply to you, it doesn't apply to you.
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I'm an asshole. How do you not know this by now? When someone annoys me, I do what I do best. When I see what I perceive to be hypocrisy, I lash out. And anyone here is free to do the same to me. If I'm being a hypocrite, feel free to call me out. But frankly I am irrationally angry about people who demand equality and fair treatment and then turn around and treat others with disrespect based on the very same kinds of things that they supposedly champion. I was surrounded by this in college. I'm surrounded by it in my profession and I'm basically inundated with it on social media. So tired of people not living by the same standards that they supposedly believe in. I hate it when people claim to be Christians and then do things that Christ would never have done (if he existed). I can't stand when liberals claims to be progressive and socially equitable and then they lash out at anyone that doesn't agree with them. Our society is filled with it and it PISSES ME OFF.

I'm afraid to speak my mind on anything that doesn't go with the social justice crowd for fear of reprisal. You never know, you could piss someone off and they decide to go after your career.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
480,000 student athletes each year in the US. One transgendered person has won a championship in one event.

If classes of athletes is a concern I would say we should be focusing on when the Ducks, Ohio State, 'Bama, etc. plays Eastern Podunk College in football every season. Now that is a different class of athlete that can result in serious injury. That happens many more times a year then what we're talking about.
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Actually that's not as bad, IMO. Those guys joined to compete in those games. They look forward to it.

Most women athletes don't join to compete against people who were born males. That's not what they signed up for.

I'm not saying it's a huge problem which will topple western civilization, I'm simply saying how I feel the situation should be handled, based on my understanding of sports and anatomy, even after hormone therapy.

Again, they should feel free to compete. But it should be at the highest level.
 
calvin natt said:
To the women who lose to her, yes. But I understand that now we don’t care because it’s only a few swimmers.
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Help me out with your concern/position on this...

Do you think transgender athletes should not be allowed to participate in athletics at all?

Or only allowed to compete under the gender they were born as?

Or not allowed to win?
 
Board of Governors updates transgender participation policy

The NCAA Board of Governors on Wednesday voted in support of a sport-by-sport approach to transgender participation that preserves opportunity for transgender student-athletes while balancing fairness, inclusion and safety for all who compete. The new policy, effective immediately, aligns transgender student-athlete participation for college sports with recent policy changes (PDF) from the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee and International Olympic Committee.

Like the Olympics, the updated NCAA policy calls for transgender participation for each sport to be determined by the policy for the national governing body of that sport, subject to ongoing review and recommendation by the NCAA Committee on Competitive Safeguards and Medical Aspects of Sports to the Board of Governors. If there is no NGB policy for a sport, that sport's international federation policy would be followed. If there is no international federation policy, previously established IOC policy criteria would be followed.

The Board of Governors urged the divisions to provide flexibility to allow for additional eligibility if a transgender student-athlete loses eligibility based on the policy change provided they meet the newly adopted standards.

The policy is effective starting with the 2022 winter championships. Transgender student-athletes will need to document sport-specific testosterone levels beginning four weeks before their sport's championship selections. Starting with the 2022-23 academic year, transgender student-athletes will need documented levels at the beginning of their season and a second documentation six months after the first. They will also need documented testosterone levels four weeks before championship selections. Full implementation would begin with the 2023-24 academic year.

"We are steadfast in our support of transgender student-athletes and the fostering of fairness across college sports," said John DeGioia, chair of the board and Georgetown president. "It is important that NCAA member schools, conferences and college athletes compete in an inclusive, fair, safe and respectful environment and can move forward with a clear understanding of the new policy."

"Approximately 80% of U.S. Olympians are either current or former college athletes," said Mark Emmert, NCAA president. "This policy alignment provides consistency and further strengthens the relationship between college sports and the U.S. Olympics."

Additionally, the NCAA's Office of Inclusion and the Sport Science Institute released the Gender Identity and Student-Athlete Participation Summit Final Report (PDF). The report assists ongoing membership efforts to support inclusion, fairness, and the mental and physical health of transgender and non-binary student-athletes in collegiate sport.

The Board of Governors met Wednesday in Indianapolis as part of the 2022 NCAA Convention. For more on key topics from the 2022 NCAA Convention, visit ncaa.org/convention.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2022/1/19...updates-transgender-participation-policy.aspx
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Help me out with your concern/position on this...

Do you think transgender athletes should not be allowed to participate in athletics at all?

Or only allowed to compete under the gender they were born as?

Or not allowed to win?
Click to expand...

I get what he is saying in that the women who lose to a transgendered athlete don't feel it's fair. That's understandable.

To say no one cares is a bit dramatic.

There is a dilemma here whether anyone likes it or not.

Questions are coming up in regards to advantage and fairness. That's valid.

But, we have to find some way to rectify the concerns of these women athletes with the position trans athletes find themselves in.

Of course trans athletes should be able to compete and win.
 
All I can say is if in some hypothetical world where the roles were reversed - men were losing to trans men, all hell would break loose. You think if women showed up and broke records or had 34 sacks a season vs the Ducks it would be tolerated for one second? Nope.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Board of Governors updates transgender participation policy

The NCAA Board of Governors on Wednesday voted in support of a sport-by-sport approach to transgender participation that preserves opportunity for transgender student-athletes while balancing fairness, inclusion and safety for all who compete. The new policy, effective immediately, aligns transgender student-athlete participation for college sports with recent policy changes (PDF) from the United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee and International Olympic Committee.

Like the Olympics, the updated NCAA policy calls for transgender participation for each sport to be determined by the policy for the national governing body of that sport, subject to ongoing review and recommendation by the NCAA Committee on Competitive Safeguards and Medical Aspects of Sports to the Board of Governors. If there is no NGB policy for a sport, that sport's international federation policy would be followed. If there is no international federation policy, previously established IOC policy criteria would be followed.

The Board of Governors urged the divisions to provide flexibility to allow for additional eligibility if a transgender student-athlete loses eligibility based on the policy change provided they meet the newly adopted standards.

The policy is effective starting with the 2022 winter championships. Transgender student-athletes will need to document sport-specific testosterone levels beginning four weeks before their sport's championship selections. Starting with the 2022-23 academic year, transgender student-athletes will need documented levels at the beginning of their season and a second documentation six months after the first. They will also need documented testosterone levels four weeks before championship selections. Full implementation would begin with the 2023-24 academic year.

"We are steadfast in our support of transgender student-athletes and the fostering of fairness across college sports," said John DeGioia, chair of the board and Georgetown president. "It is important that NCAA member schools, conferences and college athletes compete in an inclusive, fair, safe and respectful environment and can move forward with a clear understanding of the new policy."

"Approximately 80% of U.S. Olympians are either current or former college athletes," said Mark Emmert, NCAA president. "This policy alignment provides consistency and further strengthens the relationship between college sports and the U.S. Olympics."

Additionally, the NCAA's Office of Inclusion and the Sport Science Institute released the Gender Identity and Student-Athlete Participation Summit Final Report (PDF). The report assists ongoing membership efforts to support inclusion, fairness, and the mental and physical health of transgender and non-binary student-athletes in collegiate sport.

The Board of Governors met Wednesday in Indianapolis as part of the 2022 NCAA Convention. For more on key topics from the 2022 NCAA Convention, visit ncaa.org/convention.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2022/1/19...updates-transgender-participation-policy.aspx
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You have to admit they are at least trying to listen.
I can appreciate that they are addressing the issue.
Now as far as right or wrong goes I have to admit I simply don’t have the answers here.
I am however a little bit more educated on the subject than I was before.
Thanks to a number of posts here and some personal research on the issue.
I still feel he/she should probably not be competing in an individual sport such as swimming. Now team sports might be another issue but still he/she would have some advantages in team sports.
Take basketball for instance. He probably can’t sniff the court as a man but would most likely be a force on a woman’s team.

Yes I understand I am allowed to have this opinion and anyone else is allowed to disagree.
If you happen to disagree and would like to discuss it then you are more than welcome to tag me and my statement and discuss but please avoid the vague passive aggressive post that points out but doesn’t actually call me out. I’m an adult. I can discuss and I have differing views with people.
 
calvin natt said:
All I can say is if in some hypothetical world where the roles were reversed - men were losing to trans men, all hell would break loose. You think if women showed up and broke records or had 34 sacks a season vs the Ducks it would be tolerated for one second? Nope.
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And that in its own weird way is another slight on women in sports.
 
calvin natt said:
All I can say is if in some hypothetical world where the roles were reversed - men were losing to trans men, all hell would break loose. You think if women showed up and broke records or had 34 sacks a season vs the Ducks it would be tolerated for one second? Nope.
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Mack Beggs
Wrestling, Life University (Georgia)
Mack Beggs went undefeated and won two state girls wrestling titles in Texas, before he went on to college at Life University and became part of the men’s wrestling team.

bod_beggs.jpg
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Mack Beggs
Wrestling, Life University (Georgia)
Mack Beggs went undefeated and won two state girls wrestling titles in Texas, before he went on to college at Life University and became part of the men’s wrestling team.

bod_beggs.jpg
Click to expand...

Mack Beggs welcomed to his college men’s wrestling team with open arms
Texas forced Beggs to wrestle girls. Now Life University and the NAIA are recognizing him as the wrestler he is.

Mack Beggs is finally part of a men’s wrestling team.

The two-time Texas state high school wrestling champion is now part of the men’s wrestling team at Life University, an NAIA school in Marietta, Ga., a half hour north of Atlanta.

Beggs made the announcement of his spot on the team earlier this week.

“Definitely ready to take myself to the next level and prove to myself that I’m going to succeed,” he wrote on Facebook. “I’m ready to struggle. I’m ready to fight.”

Beggs knows a thing or two about struggle and fighting. While identifying as a boy in high school and taking low doses of testosterone for his transition, Texas lawmakers mandated that he wrestle against girls, rather than acknowledge him as a trans athlete. He didn’t lose a match in his final two high school seasons.


Now he couldn’t be happier to be part of the men’s wrestling team at Life Univ.

“I’m very blessed and honored to apart of such an amazing program,” Beggs told Outsports. “I’ve learned more life lessons in the past several weeks than I have ever... the mindset of this team is definitely a force to be reckoned with. No one is going to be ready for us. I’m excited to be a part of their storm.”
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Mack Beggs welcomed to his college men’s wrestling team with open arms
Texas forced Beggs to wrestle girls. Now Life University and the NAIA are recognizing him as the wrestler he is.

Mack Beggs is finally part of a men’s wrestling team.

The two-time Texas state high school wrestling champion is now part of the men’s wrestling team at Life University, an NAIA school in Marietta, Ga., a half hour north of Atlanta.

Beggs made the announcement of his spot on the team earlier this week.

“Definitely ready to take myself to the next level and prove to myself that I’m going to succeed,” he wrote on Facebook. “I’m ready to struggle. I’m ready to fight.”

Beggs knows a thing or two about struggle and fighting. While identifying as a boy in high school and taking low doses of testosterone for his transition, Texas lawmakers mandated that he wrestle against girls, rather than acknowledge him as a trans athlete. He didn’t lose a match in his final two high school seasons.


Now he couldn’t be happier to be part of the men’s wrestling team at Life Univ.

“I’m very blessed and honored to apart of such an amazing program,” Beggs told Outsports. “I’ve learned more life lessons in the past several weeks than I have ever... the mindset of this team is definitely a force to be reckoned with. No one is going to be ready for us. I’m excited to be a part of their storm.”
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Awesome. Great story.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
You see I could actually see this happening pretty easily with weight classes and the knowledge that wrestling is just as much about speed and perseverance as it is about brute strength.
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Except that women naturally have 15-20% more body fat than men, so they are wrestling 1 or 2 weight classes above where they should be against stronger men.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Help me out with your concern/position on this...

Do you think transgender athletes should not be allowed to participate in athletics at all?

Or only allowed to compete under the gender they were born as?

Or not allowed to win?
Click to expand...
My answer would be that cis-gender women compete against each other, and everyone else competes on the "mens" side.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Except that women naturally have 15-20% more body fat than men, so they are wrestling 1 or 2 weight classes above where they should be against stronger men.
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Wrestlers are usually around 3-5% body fat and in some cases less. 15-20% of 4% is less than 1% so no not really. When you are talking about the 106, 113 or 120 weight classes it simply isn't going to make that much difference. Even less if you go to 126, 132 or 138. Water retention is a bigger deal. That is why i said "I could actually see this happening".

Edit- Mack Beggs wrestled at 110 lbs.
 
My favorite part of this issue is how the governing bodies are scared shitless of blowback if they change up any of the rules so they just keep handing the bag to some other entity, hoping they are the ones to get blood on their hands. The NCAA basically said, we'll do whatever USA Swimming does. No one wants to be the bad guy here and tell the transgender women that they can't compete against the men. Yes so far it's only been this one swimmer and a runner in Connecticut that has made major headlines, but feels like only the start. I'm still not sure where I stand but lean towards those born as women and stay as women are the only ones that get to compete as women and everyone else needs to compete as men.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Wrestlers are usually around 3-5% body fat and in some cases less. 15-20% of 4% is less than 1% so no not really. When you are talking about the 106, 113 or 120 weight classes it simply isn't going to make that much difference. Even less if you go to 126, 132 or 138. Water retention is a bigger deal. That is why i said "I could actually see this happening".

Edit- Mack Beggs wrestled at 110 lbs.
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Solid points. And Mack had procedures to mitigate much of that.

Still, as a former high school wrestler I'm telling you. 1lb can definitely be a big deal when trying to make weight.
 
bigbailes said:
My favorite part of this issue is how the governing bodies are scared shitless of blowback if they change up any of the rules so they just keep handing the bag to some other entity, hoping they are the ones to get blood on their hands. The NCAA basically said, we'll do whatever USA Swimming does. No one wants to be the bad guy here and tell the transgender women that they can't compete against the men. Yes so far it's only been this one swimmer and a runner in Connecticut that has made major headlines, but feels like only the start. I'm still not sure where I stand but lean towards those born as women and stay as women are the only ones that get to compete as women and everyone else needs to compete as men.
Click to expand...

There is going to be blowback either way. If they change the rules and force transgender athletes to compete based on the sex they were born with there will be blowback. If they allow transgender athletes to compete as they wish, there will be blowback from women/girls who claim it's not fair or men who complain that they don't want compete against athletes who were born as women.

The interests of transgendered athletes are just as important as the interest of other athletes, if not more because they are dealing with more than just winning or losing.

When it comes to women's sports the majority of those who win are cis women, despite competing against transgendered athletes. Transgendered athletes arent winning medals in the Olympics.

Maybe, it is only the start. Maybe more transgender athletes will start winning and the idea of that makes people uncomfortable.

There are faux worries that female athletes are going to suffer injuries at the hands of transgendered athletes, or that transgendered athletes will suffer competing against cis men. That hasn't happened. There are rules in place to greatly limit the possibilities of that.

There seems to be alot of fearmongering and transphobia poorly disguised as legitimate concerns. There seems to be a misconception or a confusion between sex and gender. Just because a transgender person was born with a penis at birth, does not mean their gender was also many. Transgender people are born with the opposite gender, but often don't discover this till later, and then change their sex to match their gender. They are not simply choosing to change from man to woman or woman to man.

This an in issue being made overly complex because of a few transgender athletes started winning.
 
I have a solution. Let's just get rid of sports altogether. It's inherently unfair, all of us have different bodies. There's no reason I should be expected to compete against the likes of LeBron just because we both have penises. His is so much smaller, after all, so he is able to jump higher.

barfo
 
Chris Craig said:
men who complain that they don't want compete against athletes who were born as women.
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Is anyone doing this? Frankly I wouldn't care. I have played against women before in basketball and I don't see why it would matter if it's a trans man. If they're good at the sport, they're good at the sport.
 
Chris Craig said:
There is going to be blowback either way. If they change the rules and force transgender athletes to compete based on the sex they were born with there will be blowback. If they allow transgender athletes to compete as they wish, there will be blowback from women/girls who claim it's not fair or men who complain that they don't want compete against athletes who were born as women.

The interests of transgendered athletes are just as important as the interest of other athletes, if not more because they are dealing with more than just winning or losing.

When it comes to women's sports the majority of those who win are cis women, despite competing against transgendered athletes. Transgendered athletes arent winning medals in the Olympics.

Maybe, it is only the start. Maybe more transgender athletes will start winning and the idea of that makes people uncomfortable.

There are faux worries that female athletes are going to suffer injuries at the hands of transgendered athletes, or that transgendered athletes will suffer competing against cis men. That hasn't happened. There are rules in place to greatly limit the possibilities of that.

There seems to be alot of fearmongering and transphobia poorly disguised as legitimate concerns. There seems to be a misconception or a confusion between sex and gender. Just because a transgender person was born with a penis at birth, does not mean their gender was also many. Transgender people are born with the opposite gender, but often don't discover this till later, and then change their sex to match their gender. They are not simply choosing to change from man to woman or woman to man.

This an in issue being made overly complex because of a few transgender athletes started winning.
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There will not be blowback from men. Any man who complains will look like a childish bigot and that will be the end of it.

I don't care about their gender or sex, I care about the built in advantages a person who is born male has over a person who is born female. Even after complete transition, studies show they are 10% faster and stronger than other women. That's a huge difference. Like PEDs huge.
 
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