OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues" (5 Viewers)

[Natebishop3]

I think the MLB example is very different. That example means Lia Thomas changed genders to cheat at sports. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Also, the steroid era in baseball was not limited to one player. Multiple players were cheating.

We're talking about one athlete in one event of one sport. I'm not seeing this, for right now, as something that needs big rule changes or reinventing all of college sports.

Is this really a problem?

Is this really a problem if she took last place in every event she swam in? No one would care. We wouldn't be having a discussion at all.

She won a championship in one event and lost in 3 others. A former Olympic swimmer won two of those other events. Isn't more unfair that a former Olympic athlete won in a college competition?

Why? Did the Olympic athlete make money from the olympics? Are they still an amateur? Tons of Olympic athletes are college students.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Why? Did the Olympic athlete make money from the olympics? Are they still an amateur? Tons of Olympic athletes are college students.

Isn't the Olympics the highest level of competition for a swimmer? Isn't that the pros for swimmers? Isn't this discussion about what is fair for the average college female swimming athlete?

 

[calvin natt]

I think the MLB example is very different. That example means Lia Thomas changed genders to cheat at sports. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Also, the steroid era in baseball was not limited to one player. Multiple players were cheating.

We're talking about one athlete in one event of one sport. I'm not seeing this, for right now, as something that needs big rule changes or reinventing all of college sports.

Is this really a problem?

Is this really a problem if she took last place in every event she swam in? No one would care. We wouldn't be having a discussion at all.

She won a championship in one event and lost in 3 others. A former Olympic swimmer won two of those other events. Isn't more unfair that a former Olympic athlete won in a college competition?

Is it a problem for the other swimmers, their families, coaches? Yes. If it’s not a big deal, then why don’t we just let this one swimmer know and tell her she can’t compete vs other women? I mean it’s not a big deal.

 

[Natebishop3]

Isn't the Olympics the highest level of competition for a swimmer? Isn't that the pros for swimmers? Isn't this discussion about what is fair for the average college female swimming athlete?

It’s a really bad comparison. The pros, by the very definition, means professional. Profession means money. Income. Most Olympic athletes don’t make a dime. That college scholarship is their meal ticket towards a career after athletics. They’re not all Michael Phelps. They need that college education and sports give them that. And again, taking this back to what is equitable. Why do womens sports exist in the first place? I’m curious what your thoughts, as a fellow straight white cis man, are?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Is it a problem for the other swimmers, their families, coaches? Yes. If it’s not a big deal, then why don’t we just let this one swimmer know and tell her she can’t compete vs other women? I mean it’s not a big deal.

And again, no one would care if she didn't win. It's the winning that is the problem. It's not that transgendered are taking scholarships from other athletes. It's winning.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It’s a really bad comparison. The pros, by the very definition, means professional. Profession means money. Income. Most Olympic athletes don’t make a dime. That college scholarship is their meal ticket towards a career after athletics. They’re not all Michael Phelps. They need that college education and sports give them that. And again, taking this back to what is equitable. Why do womens sports exist in the first place? I’m curious what your thoughts, as a fellow straight white cis man, are?

I'm a dog.

I just mentioned scholarships in my reply to @calvin natt. I don't know how many transgendered athletes are currently under athletic scholarship. Again, if she never won would any of us know or care about this?

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm a dog.

I just mentioned scholarships in my reply to @calvin natt. I don't know how many transgendered athletes are currently under athletic scholarship. Again, if she never won would any of us know or care about this?

I was never good enough to compete in college athletics. Hell, I was never really good enough to compete in high school either. I would not have earned a spot on a mens team because I’m not good enough to earn a spot.

If I transitioned and now I’m good enough to make a team, is that fair? Is it in the spirit of why womens sports exist in the first place? This isn’t a rhetorical question.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I was never good enough to compete in college athletics. Hell, I was never really good enough to compete in high school either. I would not have earned a spot on a mens team because I’m not good enough to earn a spot.

If I transitioned and now I’m good enough to make a team, is that fair? Is it in the spirit of why womens sports exist in the first place? This isn’t a rhetorical question.

Cheating is wrong. I have not seen anything that supports Lia Thomas becoming transgendered in order to cheat.

 

[calvin natt]

And again, no one would care if she didn't win. It's the winning that is the problem. It's not that transgendered are taking scholarships from other athletes. It's winning.

I’m not sure I’m following. The goal of sports is to win. These women train and practice for years and then poof she shows up and they lose to someone who was a man and now is not but has the body and frame of a man. It’s science it’s not me hating women. Why don’t we let our G league guys go play in the WNBA?

 

[Natebishop3]

Cheating is wrong. I have not seen anything that supports Lia Thomas becoming transgendered in order to cheat.

Ok I’m going to put it to you in another way.

I am sure you understand why affirmative action exists. I’m also sure you agree with why it exists. It’s about equity. If a white person were able to self identify as black, should they be entitled to affirmative action? If they were able to have an operation that in essence made them black, would they give up all the privilege that they were entitled to from birth?

So going back to trans women in womens sports, have they by transitioning given up the physical privilege that they possessed from birth? Womens sports exist to give women a chance to compete and earn scholarships despite (in most cases) not being able to compete with men because they simply lack the physical attributes (depending on the sport). Should a trans woman need that equity to be able to compete?

Maybe I’m not doing a good job of explaining what’s in my head. I think trans people need equity in a lot of ways, but I'm not sure sports is one of them.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I’m not sure I’m following. The goal of sports is to win. These women train and practice for years and then poof she shows up and they lose to someone who was a man and now is not but has the body and frame of a man. It’s science it’s not me hating women. Why don’t we let our G league guys go play in the WNBA?

Where did I say you hate women?

 

[Natebishop3]

The people who really are forgotten in all of this is trans men. They are most likely not good enough to compete with the cis men but they can’t legally compete with the women. So where is their equity? If one of the top female athletes transitioned and is now a man, are they going to be good enough to get a scholarship with a mens team?

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think the MLB example is very different. That example means Lia Thomas changed genders to cheat at sports. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Also, the steroid era in baseball was not limited to one player. Multiple players were cheating.

We're talking about one athlete in one event of one sport. I'm not seeing this, for right now, as something that needs big rule changes or reinventing all of college sports.

Is this really a problem?

Is this really a problem if she took last place in every event she swam in? No one would care. We wouldn't be having a discussion at all.

She won a championship in one event and lost in 3 others. A former Olympic swimmer won two of those other events. Isn't more unfair that a former Olympic athlete won in a college competition?

No, I don't think so. The Olympic swimmer doesn't have natural advantages that men typically have in physical competitions.

I'm not suggesting a massive rule change. Just a change that would shield leagues from being sued for upholding the integrity of their divisions.

Nobody is saying they can't compete. Just protections so they can't sue to compete at a different gender division than what they were naturally born to qualify for.

If the league is fine with it then no problem. But the league should be free to make that decision without fear of legal action.

 

[crandc]

Do you want DNA checks to be sure athletes are competing only in gender assigned at birth?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

The swimmer in question is a transgender woman.

Funny. Well, not funny. Straight cis men proclaiming themselves, at great length, experts on a subject they know nothing about.

Get outta here. Nobody anywhere said anything about being an expert. The whole point of the post is that I/we/they no nothing about the issue and would sure like to understand it better. Though please don't presume understanding will mean they will agree with you.
Even more so, you're so afraid to be called out you won't even tag the post you are responding to.
Totally weak. If you are going to have this conversation at least be real enough about it to converse directly to the people you are calling out.

By the way what does "cis" men mean?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I’m pretty consistent in my stance on most societal issues and obv lean left if you’ve been in here long enough you know this. Im open to learning more about this but this is one area that makes no sense to me. This swimmer. To go from average to dominating is just proof how unfair this is to the women who have competed their whole lives to lose to a swimmer who is clearly at an unfair advantage. I don’t think physical male to female people should be competing ever against women.

Exactly.

What’s even more annoying and frustrating is making it seem like the only upset people are men. Plenty of women don’t like this or think it’s fair (because it isn’t).

What’s even more annoying and frustrating is making it seem like the only upset people are men. Plenty of women don’t like this or think it’s fair (because it isn’t).

There are a number of articles starting to surface about this issue that have the women involved speaking out against it. Problem is many are very conflicted here. Women's sports are predominantly LGBT attended and approved. Many spent their entire lives supporting LGBT rights. Now all the sudden they got their spot on the National team or position in a National heat taken from them by a Trans Woman( Thanks @crandc for pointing that out because i had no idea what to call him) and they either call it out or live with the results.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Do you want DNA checks to be sure athletes are competing only in gender assigned at birth?

All i can do is answer this for me.
Personally i would just like it to be fair for all involved. Your DNA question is loaded because you will throw it back on a number of different subjects and issues. Right now as it stands It's not on an equal playing field.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Do you want DNA checks to be sure athletes are competing only in gender assigned at birth?

There are numerous ways a medical exam can determine this. An x ray of the pelvis would probably do it.
The least invasive and most accurate method would be preferred.

 

[Hoopguru]

Its all about a level playing field regardless of what you are. Throughout sports, amateurs and pro's there a numerous leagues and divisions for having a level fairness. Many leagues move people up depending on there performance levels.
Actually there should be divisions/leagues for trans men and women. This imo, would even promote the whole issue in a more positive way. It would take a while to build it up but it would happen and be more level/fair. Just a thought.
I grew up when there was no girls sports hardly but it did break through and really took off. When i coached my sons baseball teams I had several girls play on it and they were good, but when they got into junior high and hs they wanted to play girls softball instead and they really excelled.
There is a more equitable/level way it just needs to be found and implemented.

 

[crandc]

Exactly.




because i had no idea what to call him).

Her

 

[crandc]

This is a wedge issue.

People who have NO interest in women's sports, who have ignored or ridiculed female athletes, are now up in arms because a small number of trans girls/women are "destroying" women's sports. They don't advocate for equal funding, or equal pay for female athletes, or more TV exposure for women's sports.

They are using discomfort with trans people to get (straight, cis) folks to go along with attacks on LGBTQ rights.

It is similar in that sense to late abortion. Many people are uncomfortable with that, although it is rare and only occurs in cases of medical emergency to woman or severe birth defects to fetus. But get people to agree to ban abortion after 6 months and then it's 4 months, 3 months, 3 weeks, 3 minutes.... because you have established that state legislatures know more about women's pregnancies than the woman.

Get people to agree that trans people are in a separate category from "regular" (meaning cis) folks and then it's OK to say businesses can refuse service if Jesus, state funding agencies can refuse service to gay couples, states can refuse to recognize our marriages, and Florida can pass don't say gay laws. Because state legislators know more about trans people than the trans people themselves.

It's about getting people to think some "others" are just that, other.
How many of you have ever watched women's sports?
How many of you have evern met a single transgender person?

 

[Natebishop3]

This is a wedge issue.

People who have NO interest in women's sports, who have ignored or ridiculed female athletes, are now up in arms because a small number of trans girls/women are "destroying" women's sports. They don't advocate for equal funding, or equal pay for female athletes, or more TV exposure for women's sports.

They are using discomfort with trans people to get (straight, cis) folks to go along with attacks on LGBTQ rights.

It is similar in that sense to late abortion. Many people are uncomfortable with that, although it is rare and only occurs in cases of medical emergency to woman or severe birth defects to fetus. But get people to agree to ban abortion after 6 months and then it's 4 months, 3 months, 3 weeks, 3 minutes.... because you have established that state legislatures know more about women's pregnancies than the woman.

Get people to agree that trans people are in a separate category from "regular" (meaning cis) folks and then it's OK to say businesses can refuse service if Jesus, state funding agencies can refuse service to gay couples, states can refuse to recognize our marriages, and Florida can pass don't say gay laws. Because state legislators know more about trans people than the trans people themselves.

It's about getting people to think some "others" are just that, other.
How many of you have ever watched women's sports?
How many of you have evern met a single transgender person?

I have watched tons of womens sports. I enjoy womens soccer. I enjoy womens volleyball. I enjoy watching gymnastics. I was a huge supporter of female gamers.

I have met and got to know quite a few trans or non binary people.

I have a daughter.

Do I get to have an opinion? Do I pass your test?

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is a wedge issue.

People who have NO interest in women's sports, who have ignored or ridiculed female athletes, are now up in arms because a small number of trans girls/women are "destroying" women's sports. They don't advocate for equal funding, or equal pay for female athletes, or more TV exposure for women's sports.

They are using discomfort with trans people to get (straight, cis) folks to go along with attacks on LGBTQ rights.

It is similar in that sense to late abortion. Many people are uncomfortable with that, although it is rare and only occurs in cases of medical emergency to woman or severe birth defects to fetus. But get people to agree to ban abortion after 6 months and then it's 4 months, 3 months, 3 weeks, 3 minutes.... because you have established that state legislatures know more about women's pregnancies than the woman.

Get people to agree that trans people are in a separate category from "regular" (meaning cis) folks and then it's OK to say businesses can refuse service if Jesus, state funding agencies can refuse service to gay couples, states can refuse to recognize our marriages, and Florida can pass don't say gay laws. Because state legislators know more about trans people than the trans people themselves.

It's about getting people to think some "others" are just that, other.
How many of you have ever watched women's sports?
How many of you have evern met a single transgender person?

No, this is different. I am sorry, but this is completely different. No other sports qualification is extended to the rest of your life as far as I can tell.

I try to follow the science on all of those issues.

To answer your questions, I watch women's/girls sports about 50-60hrs per week during basketball season.

I've met many transgender people. They are like other people. There are at least one in each of my 3 daughter's grades.

But that has nothing to do with sports divisions, which are set to ensure fairness for the benefit of the sport. To encourage competition.

I'm not trying to exclude trans people from sports or single them out. Simply saying from birth, you should be allowed to advance in divisions, however the league should have the authority to determine if you are allowed to move down in divisions.

 

[Natebishop3]

I would just to point out that I have never in my life told someone that their opinion was invalid or less valuable because of their race, gender, or sexuality.

I might call someone a moron if they're stupid, and I might shoot holes in your ideas or opinions with facts, but I have never and will never stop someone and say, "sorry you don't get to have an opinion because you're __________."

To me, that's the very opposite of inclusive. So you no longer get to crow about inclusivity if you are excluding anyone for any reason that is beyond their control, like race, gender, or sexuality.

 

[calvin natt]

This is a wedge issue.

People who have NO interest in women's sports, who have ignored or ridiculed female athletes, are now up in arms because a small number of trans girls/women are "destroying" women's sports. They don't advocate for equal funding, or equal pay for female athletes, or more TV exposure for women's sports.

They are using discomfort with trans people to get (straight, cis) folks to go along with attacks on LGBTQ rights.

It is similar in that sense to late abortion. Many people are uncomfortable with that, although it is rare and only occurs in cases of medical emergency to woman or severe birth defects to fetus. But get people to agree to ban abortion after 6 months and then it's 4 months, 3 months, 3 weeks, 3 minutes.... because you have established that state legislatures know more about women's pregnancies than the woman.

Get people to agree that trans people are in a separate category from "regular" (meaning cis) folks and then it's OK to say businesses can refuse service if Jesus, state funding agencies can refuse service to gay couples, states can refuse to recognize our marriages, and Florida can pass don't say gay laws. Because state legislators know more about trans people than the trans people themselves.

It's about getting people to think some "others" are just that, other.
How many of you have ever watched women's sports?
How many of you have evern met a single transgender person?

So many assumptions and generalizations it’s hard to take too seriously or even debate, because it sounds like we can’t explain anything. We are just men so we aren’t allowed an opinion on it.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I use the Grammarly plugin for Google Chrome.

Grammarly continues to pay staffers who joined Ukrainian army

Grammarly Inc, one of the most valuable tech startups in the US, is continuing to pay full salaries and benefits to its employees based in Ukraine who have joined the country’s army to fight against the Russian invasion, the company’s chief executive officer said on March 21.

“The team is, first and foremost, focused on their safety,” CEO Brad Hoover said, declining to specify how many of his employees had joined Ukraine’s defense effort. Prior to the war, nearly half of Grammarly’s more than 600 staffers were based in Ukraine.


Hoover said many of those people have since left the country, or relocated to areas within Ukraine that are safer from conflict. Grammarly makes a typing assistant and was valued by investors at US$13bil (RM54.78bil) in November.

When the fighting started, its departments with operations in Ukraine shifted those responsibilities elsewhere within the company. Hoover said initially he spent a significant amount of time on relocation and relief efforts, and that a majority of the company’s Ukrainian workforce is now back online.

Grammarly also offered paid leaves of absence for workers who were forced to flee their homes because of the fighting. “This is destroying people’s lives,” Hoover said. “It’s an incredible tragedy.”

Rahul Roy-Chowdhury, Grammarly’s global head of product, said the company hasn’t changed its priorities as it makes second-quarter plans. But some progress on Grammarly’s goals may be slower than previously expected, he said.

Grammarly raised US$200mil (RM842.90mil) last fall from investors including funds managed by BlackRock Inc and Baillie Gifford & Co. Hoover said the funding round wasn’t intended as a top-off financing before an initial public offering, though an IPO or direct listing could be in the company’s future down the line.

https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tec...ues-to-pay-staffers-who-joined-ukrainian-army

 

[ABM]

Grammarly continues to pay staffers who joined Ukrainian army

Grammarly Inc, one of the most valuable tech startups in the US, is continuing to pay full salaries and benefits to its employees based in Ukraine who have joined the country’s army to fight against the Russian invasion, the company’s chief executive officer said on March 21.

“The team is, first and foremost, focused on their safety,” CEO Brad Hoover said, declining to specify how many of his employees had joined Ukraine’s defense effort. Prior to the war, nearly half of Grammarly’s more than 600 staffers were based in Ukraine.


Hoover said many of those people have since left the country, or relocated to areas within Ukraine that are safer from conflict. Grammarly makes a typing assistant and was valued by investors at US$13bil (RM54.78bil) in November.

When the fighting started, its departments with operations in Ukraine shifted those responsibilities elsewhere within the company. Hoover said initially he spent a significant amount of time on relocation and relief efforts, and that a majority of the company’s Ukrainian workforce is now back online.

Grammarly also offered paid leaves of absence for workers who were forced to flee their homes because of the fighting. “This is destroying people’s lives,” Hoover said. “It’s an incredible tragedy.”

Rahul Roy-Chowdhury, Grammarly’s global head of product, said the company hasn’t changed its priorities as it makes second-quarter plans. But some progress on Grammarly’s goals may be slower than previously expected, he said.

Grammarly raised US$200mil (RM842.90mil) last fall from investors including funds managed by BlackRock Inc and Baillie Gifford & Co. Hoover said the funding round wasn’t intended as a top-off financing before an initial public offering, though an IPO or direct listing could be in the company’s future down the line.

https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tec...ues-to-pay-staffers-who-joined-ukrainian-army

Talk about changing the subject.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

I have watched tons of womens sports. I enjoy womens soccer. I enjoy womens volleyball. I enjoy watching gymnastics. I was a huge supporter of female gamers.

I have met and got to know quite a few trans or non binary people.

I have a daughter.

Do I get to have an opinion? Do I pass your test?

Exactly all the fucking hours I spent watching my daughter all her life don’t count.
All my wife’s (She was lesbian when I met her by the way) friends and acquaintances don’t count either.
That post just reeks of irony.
It’s like opening a vacuum lacking basic common sense.

 

[Chris Craig]

I have watched tons of womens sports. I enjoy womens soccer. I enjoy womens volleyball. I enjoy watching gymnastics. I was a huge supporter of female gamers.

I have met and got to know quite a few trans or non binary people.

I have a daughter.

Do I get to have an opinion? Do I pass your test?

So many assumptions and generalizations it’s hard to take too seriously or even debate, because it sounds like we can’t explain anything. We are just men so we aren’t allowed an opinion on it.

Exactly all the fucking hours I spent watching my daughter all her life don’t count.
All my wife’s (She was lesbian when I met her by the way) friends and acquaintances don’t count either.
That post just reeks of irony.
It’s like opening a vacuum lacking basic common sense.

No one is disallowed to state their opinion here. You have all been allowed to state yours. They remain in this thread on this site. Often opinions clash here. That is the nature of a forum. One person offers one opinion and someone of a differing opinion challenges it. It only invalidates your opinion when someone else challenges it, if you allow it or take it personally.

 

[Natebishop3]

No one is disallowed to state their opinion here. You have all been allowed to state yours. They remain in this thread on this site. Often opinions clash here. That is the nature of a forum. One person offers one opinion and someone of a differing opinion challenges it. It only invalidates your opinion when someone else challenges it, if you allow it or take it personally.

I don't think anyone is talking about the actual literal ability to post our opinions.

There are certain people who bristle any time a straight cis man offers an opinion on anything that they disagree with.