OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues"

[riverman]

You can cite my reasoning for posting this thread, that's certainly your prerogative. I know why I posted it, and it wasn't for shock value. Yes, the evolving trans world that we now live in has caused me great pause a time, or two. As such, my thread title alluded to me working through and with the whole thing. That said, what happened at that spa should NEVER happen.....anywhere! To me, the most disgusting aspect of it was not primarily that he/she/they exposed his genitals to the woman/kids......it was that THEY very well may have been naked when he trapesed in. Would you want your daughters, in all their glory, exposed to this cat out of the blue like that? Moreover, what if he wasn't trans at all, and was, instead, a pervert or pedophile just wanting the get his jollies? The thing is, how would the spa even know how to tell the difference?! How do you prove you're a trans in progress, or such?

I addressed that by saying if inappropriate conduct happens in a bathroom, tell the owner...if it's threatening to a child..call the cops....you can whatif all you like...the issue was breached because of transgender laws not because a crime or possible crime happened or was averted...it's the business owners responsibility to maintain a safe place and if they don't...they suffer the legal consequences...if you are bothered..call authorities and go to court or sue the establishment for endangerment but I don't think that seemed to be the case in this story..and I do think you used it as an example of transgendered fears you apparently harbor. I know transgendered people and not one of them would attempt to harrass a girl or pretend to be transgendered....S2 has a transgendered member who hasn't posted in ages over these judgements ...tolerance is a healer

 

[ABM]

I addressed that by saying if inappropriate conduct happens in a bathroom, tell the owner...if it's threatening to a child..call the cops....you can whatif all you like...the issue was breached because of transgender laws not because a crime or possible crime happened or was averted...it's the business owners responsibility to maintain a safe place and if they don't...they suffer the legal consequences...if you are bothered..call authorities and go to court or sue the establishment for endangerment but I don't think that seemed to be the case in this story..and I do think you used it as an example of transgendered fears you apparently harbor.

And I addressed it earlier, as well, saying that a well-placed sign should be at the front door letting moms and their children (or whomever) know that transgendered people are welcome to either locker-room. It's not a real difficult concept to understand.

 

[riverman]

And I addressed it earlier, as well, saying that a well-placed sign should be at the front door letting moms and their children (or whomever) know that transgendered people are welcome to either locker-room. It's not a real difficult concept to understand.

Neither is tolerance if the person is respectful and behaving in a publicly acceptable manner...not quite the fear you were projecting about little girls though....and as to signage....ask blacks in the south about thatwho lived through Jim Crow signage...warning...this is a water fountain black people use....that's a dangerous precendent to require. People should be aware when they take their kids to the Country fair they're going to see boobs all day long...mom doesn't get to be shocked over it...no sign at the Fair says..."Warning! Boobs everywhere!"

 

[ABM]

Neither is tolerance if the person is respectful and behaving in a publicly acceptable manner...not quite the fear you were projecting about little girls though....and as to signage....ask blacks in the south about that...warning...this is a water fountain black people use....that's a dangerous precendent to require. People should be aware when they take their kids to the Country fair they're going to see boobs all day long...mom doesn't get to be shocked over it...no sign at the Fair says..."Warning! Boobs everywhere!"

Just wow. No further comment.

 

[riverman]

Just wow. No further comment.

If Matt Gaetz had been in that bathroom or Ghislaine Maxwell...you'd probably better protect the girls and the fear would be well founded..and Trump is famous for lurking at girls in his beauty pageants who were dressing...young girls..he got your vote twice..I always try to consider the source with these topics of controversy and in my view most white heterosexual males need to check some of the double standards for behavior at the door. That's where I weigh in ...a crime is a crime and intolerance is a bad habit

 

[ABM]

https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/wi-spa-video/

The fat lady hasn't even begun to warm up the vocal chords on this issue....

Exclusive: A Saturday Showdown Is in the Works Over Trans Blowup at Wi Spa

From the article....

.......“So, it’s OK for a man to go into the women’s section, show his penis around the other women, young little girls—underage—in your spa? Wi Spa condones that, is that what you’re saying?” the woman filming the video can be heard saying to a masked spa worker. When the employee attempts to answer, saying something about “sexual orientation,” the customer, who seems to deny the existence of trans people, loses it even more. “What orientation?” she nearly shouts. “I see a dick! It lets me know he’s a man. He’s a man. He is a man. He is not no female.” Another customer is shown in video demanding a refund. “This is our first time, and then this shit happens, and we’re not coming back,” she says.

As it happens, Wi Spa isn’t the only similar space that’s had to balance accommodating both cis customers and trans customers in various stages of their transitions. A rep for Century Day and Night Spa on Olympic Boulevard recalls a similar situation just before the pandemic shut them down in spring 2020 in which a trans woman (“with everything reflected female on her driver’s license”) caused an uproar among cis gender female clients by exposing male genitals in the female pools and lockers. “[She] wouldn’t really use the spas, [she] just sat at the corner of the pool with [her] feet in the water and [her] legs spread or took front-facing showers,” the rep recalls. “People began to feel uncomfortable. It became very disruptive.” When the spa finally confronted her, she was adamant that the spa should attempt to normalize young girls and women viewing male genitalia.

“Typically,” says the rep, “transgender people are very mindful of not only their own comfort levels but the comfort levels of people around them. This person was not respectful.”

In a statement to Los Angeles about this weekend’s incident, Wi Spa points to California Civil Code 51 (b), which makes discriminating against trans and other gender non-conforming people in business establishments illegal in the state. “Like many other metropolitan areas, Los Angeles contains a transgender population, some of whom enjoy visiting a spa,” the statement goes on. “Wi Spa strives to meet the needs of all its customers.”

On Monday, the Supreme Court of the United States weighed in on the issue, declining to hear a case from a Virginia school board that wanted the justices to reinstate its policy banning transgender student Gavin Grimm from using the boys room, upholding an appeals court decision that found the policy unconstitutional.

 

[riverman]

What parents would chose to take their young girls to a public bathhouse in Los Angeles anyway?

 

[ABM]

What parents would chose to take their young girls to a public bathhouse in Los Angeles anyway?

Gosh, no kidding. You should see the ones down here.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

Except you are not the one who gets to define trans people. Neither are state legislators.

If you’re born a male and identify as a female, or born a female and identify as a male, isn’t that a trans person? If not, what’s the definition?

 

[KristinthBonkers]

If Matt Gaetz had been in that bathroom or Ghislaine Maxwell...you'd probably better protect the girls and the fear would be well founded..and Trump is famous for lurking at girls in his beauty pageants who were dressing...young girls..he got your vote twice..I always try to consider the source with these topics of controversy and in my view most white heterosexual males need to check some of the double standards for behavior at the door. That's where I weigh in ...a crime is a crime and intolerance is a bad habit

Matt Gaetz? Has he been charged with anything or settled, or are you going with the Chauncey Billups thing where he is guilty before innocent regardless of any arrests or charges?

Speaking of Maxwell, though, in two weeks her personal notes are unsealed. There are photos of the pair with Trump and many others, too, but the Clintons had a close relationship with them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ents-Ghislaine-Maxwells-personal-affairs.html

• Judge Loretta Preska ruled Thursday that dozens of documents about Ghislaine Maxwell's personal affairs should be unsealed in the next two weeks
• The judge said that unsealing the documents would not impact Maxwell's right to a fair trial in November as her lawyers have claimed
• Among the documents will be Maxwell's efforts to quash requests from Virginia Roberts Giuffre to obtain her financial records
• Giuffre's lawyers demanded documents from Maxwell, including 'funding received from the Clinton Global Initiative and the Clinton Foundation'
• Clinton flew on Epstein's plane dozens of times and photographs show the former president with the financier and Maxwell

 

[KristinthBonkers]

“[She] wouldn’t really use the spas, [she] just sat at the corner of the pool with [her] feet in the water and [her] legs spread or took front-facing showers,” the rep recalls. “People began to feel uncomfortable. It became very disruptive.” When the spa finally confronted her, she was adamant that the spa should attempt to normalize young

Until somebody decides to press charges, not much can be done about it. And the person who presses charges is going to have their life ruined by the tolerant far Left lynch mob.

May as well get used to dudes exposing themselves in front of children. It’s here to stay.

 

[riverman]

Matt Gaetz? Has he been charged with anything or settled, or are you going with the Chauncey Billups thing where he is guilty before innocent regardless of any arrests or charges?

false equivilancy .....Gaetz has been accused of engaging a minor for sex and transporting her across state lines....Chauncey had consentual sex with an adult 24 years ago and case closed...not a child and resolved it...Gaetz is currently under investigation but you know how hard it is to arrest a republican politician these days....yeah...I trust Chauncey and I believe Gaetz is a sleazebag and his best friend admitted he did....I think Gaetz, Trump, Giuliani, Barr and a lot of folks should be arrested right now and frankly have no trust in the justice system following through if there are votes in jeopardy or if there's too much money to lose by convicting them....I think it's a travesty that a lawyer knowingly gets guilty people off the hook with legal loopholes as well...the legal system should protect the truth

 

[riverman]

“[She] wouldn’t really use the spas, [she] just sat at the corner of the pool with [her] feet in the water and [her] legs spread or took front-facing showers,” the rep recalls. “People began to feel uncomfortable. It became very disruptive.” When the spa finally confronted her, she was adamant that the spa should attempt to normalize young

Until somebody decides to press charges, not much can be done about it. And the person who presses charges is going to have their life ruined by the tolerant far Left lynch mob.

May as well get used to dudes exposing themselves in front of children. It’s here to stay.

I think you've sensationlized that quite a bit.....I'm a liberal but one who stands up for justice...not lynching anyone because of a belief ...if a crime is commited they should be prosectued to the extent of the law....that's not a partisan stance...it's a human interest stance.
People have been flashing people for all eternity....subways..churches, on and on...it's not new by any stretch and we all deal with the creeps in the trenchcoats as necessary...how this is being presented as exclusive to the transgendered rights issue is a non factor...politicians have been sexting and hanging out in bathrooms trolling for sex, etc for a long time now.....it's been a news story off and on for a long time now....let's turn the magnifying glass on some of them eh?
I choose to trust Chauncey from reading the story....I don't trust the others I mentioned from reading their stories but I'm not in a position to find them guilty just because I don't trust them..sometimes we use the traffic light of truth to come to conclusions concerning cases ...

 

[ABM]

I think you've sensationlized that quite a bit.....I'm a liberal but one who stands up for justice...not lynching anyone because of a belief ...if a crime is commited they should be prosectued to the extent of the law....

To the extent of what law? Y'right.

 

[riverman]

To the extent of what law? Y'right.

the law that determines a crime has been commited by violating it

 

[ABM]

the law that determines a crime has been commited by violating it

Dude, get real. That's a completely moving target these days.

 

[riverman]

Dude, get real. That's a completely moving target these days.

just because republicans invented this whole "fake news" defense and leadership by twitter doesn't change the truth.....I don't believe the truth is not the truth nor that Trump is innocent of obstructing justice or witness tampering....problem is his voting base currency is too important to get in the way of the truth for the GOP
You guys should get behind Kinzinger and Cheney and uphold the truth without moving the damned target

 

[ABM]

just because republicans invented this whole "fake news" defense and leadership by twitter doesn't change the truth.....I don't believe the truth is not the truth nor that Trump is innocent of obstructing justice or witness tampering....problem is his voting base currency is too important to get in the way of the truth for the GOP
You guys should get behind Kinzinger and Cheney and uphold the truth without moving the damned target

The target is moving DESPITE your Trump et al references. Look up, watch it move.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

false equivilancy .....Gaetz has been accused of engaging a minor for sex and transporting her across state lines....Chauncey had consentual sex with an adult 24 years ago and case closed...not a child and resolved it...Gaetz is currently under investigation but you know how hard it is to arrest a republican politician these days....yeah...I trust Chauncey and I believe Gaetz is a sleazebag and his best friend admitted he did....I think Gaetz, Trump, Giuliani, Barr and a lot of folks should be arrested right now and frankly have no trust in the justice system following through if there are votes in jeopardy or if there's too much money to lose by convicting them....I think it's a travesty that a lawyer knowingly gets guilty people off the hook with legal loopholes as well...the legal system should protect the truth

Aren’t you the guy that was posting about the presumption of innocence and due process for Chauncey Billups, even though he settled his civil case? So Gaetz is guilty solely because he’s accused? Or, is he guilty because you don’t like his extreme politics?

We are in dangerous times when rabid partisans demand investigations of political opponents in search of crimes. That you then claim to have no trust in the legal system is a striking example of cognitive dissonance. I’ve dealt with extremists on both sides and find the tribal mentality of demonizing fellow citizens as less than human abhorrent and frightening for our children’s’ futures. Read a history book and then read what extremists from the Left and Right post on social media.

 

[ABM]

Aren’t you the guy that was posting about the presumption of innocence and due process for Chauncey Billups, even though he settled his civil case?

We are in dangerous times when rabid partisans demand investigations of political opponents in search of crimes. That you then claim to have no trust in the legal system is a striking example of cognitive dissonance. I’ve dealt with extremists on both sides and find the tribal mentality of demonizing fellow citizens as less than human abhorrent and frightening for our children’s’ futures.

It's almost second nature to him. But, anyway, as you were, soldier,

 

[riverman]

The target is moving DESPITE your Trump et al references. Look up, watch it move.

truth is truth....targets are for shooting practice but deception has been planted by your party of choice for over 4 years now and you get to eat that crow....didn't fool me for a minute. Trump manipulated his voting base with lies and still a large segment of your party does not hold him accountable....fact....white privilege is at stake and they'll lie all day to keep it in power

 

[ABM]

truth is truth....targets are for shooting practice but deception has been planted by your party of choice for over 4 years now and you get to eat that crow....didn't fool me for a minute. Trump manipulated his voting base with lies and still a large segment of your party does not hold him accountable....fact....white privilege is at stake and they'll lie all day to keep it in power

Trump is gone, dude. Truth is truth? Heh, keep telling that to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. It's gotta be bottled.

 

[riverman]

Aren’t you the guy that was posting about the presumption of innocence and due process for Chauncey Billups, even though he settled his civil case? So Gaetz is guilty solely because he’s accused? Or, is he guilty because you don’t like his extreme politics?

We are in dangerous times when rabid partisans demand investigations of political opponents in search of crimes. That you then claim to have no trust in the legal system is a striking example of cognitive dissonance. I’ve dealt with extremists on both sides and find the tribal mentality of demonizing fellow citizens as less than human abhorrent and frightening for our children’s’ futures. Read a history book and then read what extremists from the Left and Right post on social media.

Yes I am....Chauncey Billups case I read up on extensively and came to a conclusion...I read up on Trump and Gaetz and came to another conclusion...that's my opinion. I don't care what extremists you've dealt with...I'm not an extremist...you might be a die hard republican but that doesn't change my opinion and I know a lot about history. I also don't use twitter, facebook, etc because I think they are dangerous platforms for making uninformed choices...you are breaking these issues into extreme right and left and I'm not...choices...the legal system has let us all down....I used to broadcast propoganda in the Navy for the Nixon administration...I'm not fooled easily by snakeoil salesman sewing reasonable doubts around bad behavior...govt by twitter was as close to facism as we've ever seen in this country....I believe in truth...

 

[KristinthBonkers]

just because republicans invented this whole "fake news" defense and leadership by twitter doesn't change the truth.....I don't believe the truth is not the truth nor that Trump is innocent of obstructing justice or witness tampering....problem is his voting base currency is too important to get in the way of the truth for the GOP
You guys should get behind Kinzinger and Cheney and uphold the truth without moving the damned target

Don’t label me a Trump supporter just because you seem to be completely biased against him in your tribal politics.

Why would I support Dick “Halliburton” Cheney, whose lies gave us a war in Iraq and billions in government contracts for him and his warmongering buddies? What was gained out of the lives and treasure lost in the desert other than enriching the military-industrial complex?

Seeing the far Left embrace the Bushes and Cheneys because they hate Trump tells me three things.

1) The far Left has no principles if they now accept war criminals like Dick Cheney and the McCain family,

2) there really is only one party in DC, and all of the arguing is just for show to keep people divided, and

3) as an outsider, Trump had to be eliminated at any cost because he was trying to expose a very corrupt government.

Biden ordered more air strikes on Syria yesterday and not a peep from the far Left. That’s how I know this is nothing but cultism on the far Left and far Right. Saying Trump lies, which he does, while not holding Biden and Cheney to the same standard tells me all I need to know about it.

 

[riverman]

Don’t label me a Trump supporter just because you seem to be completely biased against him in your tribal politics.

Why would I support Dick “Halliburton” Cheney, whose lies gave us a war in Iraq and billions in government contracts for him and his warmongering buddies? What was gained out of the lives and treasure lost in the desert other than enriching the military-industrial complex?

Seeing the far Left embrace the Bushes and Cheneys because they hate Trump tells me three things.

1) The far Left has no principles if they now accept war criminals like Dick Cheney and the McCain family,

2) there really is only one party in DC, and all of the arguing is just for show to keep people divided, and

3) as an outsider, Trump had to be eliminated at any cost because he was trying to expose a very corrupt government.

Biden ordered more air strikes on Syria yesterday and not a peep from the far Left. That’s how I know this is nothing but cultism on the far Left and far Right. Saying Trump lies, which he does, while not holding Biden and Cheney to the same standard tells me all I need to know about it.

Liz Cheney..not Dick and I never defined you other than you "might" be a die hard republican.....struck a nerve? I've never supported Bush either...that's you putting me in a box...I do have problems with our legal system but it has nothing to do with justice...it has to do with corruption and deception....we can discuss the subject as adults or play ping pong with our differences....choices....I am a war veteran so if you want to talk about unjust wars I'll cheer you on.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

Liz Cheney..not Dick and I never defined you other than you "might" be a die hard republican.....struck a nerve? I've never supported Bush either...that's you putting me in a box...I do have problems with our legal system but it has nothing to do with justice...it has to do with corruption and deception....we can discuss the subject as adults or play ping pong with our differences....choices

Sounds good! The Bushes and Cheneys are darling to the Leftist media now, while the Right-wing media can’t stand them. Massive hypocrisy on both sides.

I’ve considered them frauds since they pushed us, along with the corporate media, into a war in Iraq by frightening people with tales of WMDs. I’ve always thought it’s not our job as a country to be the world’s police and send other people’s kids to the front lines as the politicians and donors on both sides enrich themselves via taxpayer-funded war contracts.

 

[Hoopguru]

you're absolutely right...I probably am guilty of derailing it and I apologize to all....when I make fun of the Catholics like that it's because I grew up with a very irish family and my sister is still a devout catholic so I slide right into those rants.

Im Irish as well....Im reading a book "when the Irish invaded Canada" about the Fenians Irish Republican Army. Interesting

 

[KristinthBonkers]

BTW I nearly threw a shoe at my TV when Dubya was on 60 Minutes earlier this year getting softball questions and being praised as a painter when his art looked like something out of a middle school art class.

Same network that used fake memos right before the 2004 election to smear his time as a pilot in the ANG.

I wish more people would wake up and snap out of their tribalism but we seem beyond that point as a country.

 

[riverman]

Sounds good! The Bushes and Cheneys are darling to the Leftist media now, while the Right-wing media can’t stand them. Massive hypocrisy on both sides.

I’ve considered them frauds since they pushed us, along with the corporate media, into a war in Iraq by frightening people with tales of WMDs. I’ve always thought it’s not our job as a country to be the world’s police and send other people’s kids to the front lines as the politicians and donors on both sides enrich themselves via taxpayer-funded war contracts.

I'm anti war across the board unless it's for protecting innocents from bullies....the arms race is ridiculous...I know how many lies were told about casualties in Viet Nam...I got to send those msgs...I also hold some really radical views about what nationalism is a smoke screen for....most people think of it as team sports loyalty..I want the world to get to the Star Trek styled world govt where all countries are member states and we don't have these cold wars and exchange rates fueling the GNP....nothing I want to see on the planet is going to happen in my lifetime but as a writer, I write about it all the time...I want earth to be a safe haven for all people regardless of their cultures or differences. I taught a course in a medical college for 6 years called, topics of controversy and my syllabus is still used there today...you seem like an interesting person and I'm glad you made the move here but I hope you'll understand more about my motivations than Sparky ever does. Welcome to S2 OT section

 

[ABM]

I'm anti war across the board unless it's for protecting innocents from bullies....the arms race is ridiculous...I know how many lies were told about casualties in Viet Nam...I got to send those msgs...I also hold some really radical views about what nationalism is a smoke screen for....most people think of it as team sports loyalty..I want the world to get to the Star Trek styled world govt where all countries are member states and we don't have these cold wars and exchange rates fueling the GNP....nothing I want to see on the planet is going to happen in my lifetime but as a writer, I write about it all the time...I want earth to be a safe haven for all people regardless of their cultures or differences. I taught a course in a medical college for 6 years called, topics of controversy and my syllabus is still used there today...you seem like an interesting person and I'm glad you made the move here but I hope you'll understand more about my motivations than Sparky ever does. Welcome to S2 OT section

Heh, Sparky is laughing. Write all the papers you'd like.