OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues" (1 Viewer)

[barfo]

Dominating in women’s sports as a trans athlete is fundamentally selfish

Isn't any athlete dominating in any sport fundamentally selfish? Your winning doesn't cure cancer, feed the poor, or really, do a damn bit of good for anyone but yourself.

barfo

 

[Orion Bailey]

I explained why in the post. Read it before going off on your tirades.

lmao. You are simply incapable of saying you were wrong arent you?
Its just a tirade to you because you cant admit you were overly judgmental.

lol.
Whatever you say… lol.

 

[Hoopguru]

Isn't any athlete dominating in any sport fundamentally selfish? Your winning doesn't cure cancer, feed the poor, or really, do a damn bit of good for anyone but yourself.

barfo

Does that include politicians that will say and do anything to get elected?
Or Dame Lillard when he said he wants to be the best blazer ever? He gives back to the community and less fortunate as do many competitors.

 

[barfo]

Does that include politicians that will say and do anything to get elected?

Depends. Even a lying politician can do a lot of good after getting elected, if s/he chooses to do so.

Or Dame Lillard when he said he wants to be the best blazer ever? He gives back to the community and less fortunate as do many competitors.

That's a good point. On the other hand, fans could donate their money to charitable causes more efficiently if they just donated directly instead of letting Dame keep a big percentage of their donations.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

lmao. You are simply incapable of saying you were wrong arent you?
Its just a tirade to you because you cant admit you were overly judgmental.

No, I explained why (including barfo's example) athletics have never been about "fairness." You just ignored it to whine about "being judgmental." And whether you want to label it judgementalism or not, there's always been discomfort with "new interactions" for society, which I mentioned--interracial marriages, gay/straight locker rooms, etc. None of those needed to overhaul marriage or locker rooms, they needed generations that weren't frightened/uncomfortable with concepts they weren't comfortable to take over.

Nothing you've said remotely "proved me wrong."

 

[Hoopguru]

Depends. Even a lying politician can do a lot of good after getting elected, if s/he chooses to do so.



That's a good point. On the other hand, fans could donate their money to charitable causes more efficiently if they just donated directly instead of letting Dame keep a big percentage of their donations.

barfo

The Pirate throwing a wide net.

 

[Orion Bailey]

No, I explained why (including barfo's example) athletics have never been about "fairness." You just ignored it to whine about "being judgmental." And whether you want to label it judgementalism or not, there's always been discomfort with "new interactions" for society, which I mentioned--interracial marriages, gay/straight locker rooms, etc. None of those needed to overhaul marriage or locker rooms, they needed generations that weren't frightened/uncomfortable with concepts they weren't comfortable to take over.

Nothing you've said remotely "proved me wrong."

Bullshit. We addressed fairness several times.
Your post was just being an overly judgmental ass. You keep dismissing we addressed the fairness.

but i could just go your route…


Your snarky posts deserve nothing more than a verbal bitchslapping you consider a tirade.
Be better. If you don't care for the response then elevate your post. Be better….

LMFAO!!!!

Everyone in the room sees what's wrong with your condescension here….
But you.
I dont need to prove common sense regarding respectful communication skills.
Don't talk to me about communication issues when you have them yourself…as clearly evidence in this conflict.

i cant control your condescension when two people are discussing something and you want to enter.
Thats on you.
You keep pointing two things not addressed when they were.
That's on you.
Have better control and impartial reading skills aNd you wont get the verbal lashing you are…

what you are wrong about is doubling down on your “better than thou” post when you shouldn't have.
You are better than this.

Be better. Admit you didn't need to be snarky and could have asked for clarity in what was being said.
Thsts what you are wrong about. Straight up. But you will do everything you can to bring up every point but address that, of which was the initial issue. Not that you said our opinion is wrong. Its how you said it.

be better man. Be better. That would start with saying yeah i didn't have to be snarky. I could have asked for clarification.

But you know. Some people have to maintain that “ im never wrong” image…

so by all means. Continue of wise one and lets us ignant fokes live in our own stupoditsy!!!

 

[THE HCP]

Everyday and every thread with this dude…..sigh.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Everyday and every thread with this dude…..sigh.

yep. Fucking ignore me. Tired of the double standards from some of you.
Innitiate condescension and then when someone returns fire, claim they are having a fit.
Thats fucking insanity!!!
Some of you need to straight up look in the mirror. You just cant handle the brutal fucking truth!

but some of you will stick up for each other even when straight up being wrong. Its a fucking cult aRound here at times.
Its incredible how many intelligent people here resort to such childish behavior patterns like passive aggressive snark, but claim its the other persons fault when they return fire.
WaKe the fuck up and see it from the other side for once…

Just fucking once…..

 

[Minstrel]

Bullshit. We addressed fairness several times.
Your post was just being an overly judgmental ass. You keep dismissing we addressed the fairness.

but i could just go your route…


Your snarky posts deserve nothing more than a verbal bitchslapping you consider a tirade.
Be better. If you don't care for the response then elevate your post. Be better….

LMFAO!!!!

Everyone in the room sees what's wrong with your condescension here….
But you.
I dont need to prove common sense regarding respectful communication skills.
Don't talk to me about communication issues when you have them yourself…as clearly evidence in this conflict.

i cant control your condescension when two people are discussing something and you want to enter.
Thats on you.
You keep pointing two things not addressed when they were.
That's on you.
Have better control and impartial reading skills aNd you wont get the verbal lashing you are…

what you are wrong about is doubling down on your “better than thou” post when you shouldn't have.
You are better than this.

Be better. Admit you didn't need to be snarky and could have asked for clarity in what was being said.
Thsts what you are wrong about. Straight up. But you will do everything you can to bring up every point but address that, of which was the initial issue. Not that you said our opinion is wrong. Its how you said it.

be better man. Be better. That would start with saying yeah i didn't have to be snarky. I could have asked for clarification.

But you know. Some people have to maintain that “ im never wrong” image…

so by all means. Continue of wise one and lets us ignant fokes live in our own stupoditsy!!!

I'm sorry, I didn't understand a word of this.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand a word of this.

Now you know how the recipients of your snark and condescension feel.

Its like huh? Wtf is his problem? Were just discussing ideas and opinions here.

But know it alls cant see any other viewpoint than their own, so i don't expect you to understand any of it.
Just carry on Minstrel. Thanks for derailing a respectable conversation i’m sure you will blame that on me too because you live in a mirrorless house….

 

[Chris Craig]

At least, in general it would put those with like muscle mass together in competition.

Your assertion its about feelings is again, very arrogant to assert you know why someone else has a conflict with this.

Why cant it be about fairness?

its never going to be perfect. But weight classes can have like muscle mass contenders compete, making it more competitive.

First you snark and insult intelligence.. be better.

Then you claim its cause our feels are hurt. No mention of the link and the family and crowd that are all against this.

Your posts reek of assholish arrogance…..

Dont tell other people what they feel or how to feel.

Thats some tall shit right there…..

BE BETTER!!!!!!

SMFH….

I think he has a point OB

If we are going to talk about trans men and women, we have to look at the whole picture.

We have the argument of fairness. Ok. A trans woman ( a person born a man who has transitioned to being woman) competing against women. Is it fair? We can argue that they have advantage because they are naturally stronger. It's a good argument.

Are sports fair? There are always better and lesser athletes. Let's take track and field for instance. In a race, there will always be stronger women that beat out the weaker ones. You see runners get lapped, sometimes multiple times in the same race. Is that fair?

Look at the WNBA. There are stars then there are the rest. Is it fair that not every player can be a star? No. Sports is competition. Its not suppose to be fair.

But, those are all women on those teams or in those races so that is what makes it inherently fair right? No. It doesn't really.

We just think that because that is what we are used to seeing and knowing. What we are programmed to understand.

Now we have trans people that are daring to be who they are. Its different. It's unfamiliar to us. There have been trans people for awhile, but it hasn't been mainstream. Many don't know what to think of it. So feeling does come into it.

If you go back to the first post which is an article about trans people in bathrooms. The ladies in the bathroom were freaking out because it didn't feel right to them that a trans woman was in the ladies bathroom/lockeroom.

You yeah we can argue about fairness, but the argument about what people feel on the matter is just as equally significant in the conversation.

We can get angry about that and take it the wrong way or we talk openly about it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think he has a point OB

If we are going to talk about trans men and women, we have to look at the whole picture.

We have the argument of fairness. Ok. A trans woman ( a person born a man who has transitioned to being woman) competing against women. Is it fair? We can argue that they have advantage because they are naturally stronger. It's a good argument.

Are sports fair? There are always better and lesser athletes. Let's take track and field for instance. In a race, there will always be stronger women that beat out the weaker ones. You see runners get lapped, sometimes multiple times in the same race. Is that fair?

Look at the WNBA. There are stars then there are the rest. Is it fair that not every player can be a star? No. Sports is competition. Its not suppose to be fair.

But, those are all women on those teams or in those races so that is what makes it inherently fair right? No. It doesn't really.

We just think that because that is what we are used to seeing and knowing. What we are programmed to understand.

Now we have trans people that are daring to be who they are. Its different. It's unfamiliar to us. There have been trans people for awhile, but it hasn't been mainstream. Many don't know what to think of it. So feeling does come into it.

If you go back to the first post which is an article about trans people in bathrooms. The ladies in the bathroom were freaking out because it didn't feel right to them that a trans woman was in the ladies bathroom/lockeroom.

You yeah we can argue about fairness, but the argument about what people feel on the matter is just as equally significant in the conversation.

We can get angry about that and take it the wrong way or we talk openly about it.

but that was the point of MY original post with the link about how everyone was feeling aBout it.
Again. My point was not what he said, but rather how he said it and belitttles Hoops and my discussion.

my point of frustration has nothing to do with his opinion that mine is not good. Its how he expressed it. When people tell you you have conversation issues and then those people start out with snark and condescension, its pretty frustrating…

telling me my post should be better or only deserving of snark, was over the too arrogance. And deserved the backlash I gave it.

 

[Chris Craig]

but that was the point of MY original post with the link about how everyone was feeling aBout it.
Again. My point was not what he said, but rather how he said it and belitttles Hoops and my discussion.

my point of frustration has nothing to do with his opinion that mine is not good. Its how he expressed it. When people tell you you have conversation issues and then those people start out with snark and condescension, its pretty frustrating…

telling me my post should be better or only deserving of snark, was over the too arrogance. And deserved the backlash I gave it.

I'll go back and read it again, but I didn't see snark or condenscension. What I saw, he was just saying both fairness and feelings play a part.

Edit: Ok, he said it's not an issue of fairness, but of feelings.

I took it as the issue of fairness stems from the feelings surrounding it.

Which I think is a fair assessment.

 

[Minstrel]

Now you know how the recipients of your snark and condescension feel.

Its like huh? Wtf is his problem? Were just discussing ideas and opinions here.

But know it alls cant see any other viewpoint than their own, so i don't expect you to understand any of it.
Just carry on Minstrel. Thanks for derailing a respectable conversation i’m sure you will blame that on me too because you live in a mirrorless house….

Agree to disagree.

 

[Minstrel]

There definitely should be a trans section. Trans men and trans women are basically the same thing, just like gay women and gay men are the same thing. And if you're the only trans swimmer in your school or conference, tough luck. God didn't intend for you to swim.

This post could be considered "snarky." But it was really just sarcastically making a few points. It hardly qualifies as insulting or thread-derailing (and, for the record, it wasn't even quoting anyone or tagging anyone--so nobody was "forced" to respond to it). I was never condescending--all the insults ("judgemental ass") came from @Orion Bailey, who apparently decided that was "giving me a taste of my own medicine." The reality is, I don't insult other people, I make my points--sometimes I do it with "formal" writing, other times with informal, joking or sarcastic writing. None of that is against the rules or spirit of this forum. No one is forced to discuss things with me.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This post could be considered "snarky." But it was really just sarcastically making a few points. It hardly qualifies as insulting or thread-derailing (and, for the record, it wasn't even quoting anyone or tagging anyone--so nobody was "forced" to respond to it). I was never condescending--all the insults ("judgemental ass") came from @Orion Bailey, who apparently decided that was "giving me a taste of my own medicine." The reality is, I don't insult other people, I make my points--sometimes I do it with "formal" writing, other times with informal, joking or sarcastic writing. None of that is against the rules or spirit of this forum. No one is forced to discuss things with me.

it was more of your response to my calling that snark. Be better?

come on man.

Also. Tell me to agree to disagree but then post this…

Wtfever…

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'll go back and read it again, but I didn't see snark or condenscension. What I saw, he was just saying both fairness and feelings play a part.

Edit: Ok, he said it's not an issue of fairness, but of feelings.

I took it as the issue of fairness stems from the feelings surrounding it.

Which I think is a fair assessment.

I don't think you went back far enough.
Its not worth the time anyhow.

Just another instance of someone innitially ridiculing other peoples’ thoughts in a discussion as worthy of nothing more than snark and if we want a different reaction, be better…
Yeah as evidenced, that is not a positive way to communicate….

The frustration comes from the denial of this, and doubling down on such behavior as being appropriate.

And then the same people allow and approve of that behavior but then comment on my returning fire as me being the problem, Like hcp’s comment.
The favoritism and double standards are clearly evident to those who actually step out of the echo chamber basement aNd look at it impartially.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Isn't any athlete dominating in any sport fundamentally selfish? Your winning doesn't cure cancer, feed the poor, or really, do a damn bit of good for anyone but yourself.

barfo

Not if it's fair competition... A biological man dominating biological women is not competition.

 

[Hoopguru]

You sure dont see many trans men competing against men. I wonder why?

 

[RR7]

You sure dont see many trans men competing against me. I wonder why?

What are they competing with you in?

 

[Orion Bailey]

science has shown muscle growth and definition is based on metabolism and hormones. maybe there needs to be a range where the students have to land within that range with testing to be allowed to compete?
Then the ones outside of the range can have their own class or sect?

or any female over the range has to compete with the males?

Some peope will take offence to what im about to say but i dont care.
Maybe there should be a trans section?

We have special olympics for those with mental and physical disabilities. Would being born with sex organs opposite one thinks they are would also be a handicap or disability of some sort?

we have special olympics because they cant compete with healthy people.

Should be the same for trans.

alot more than just saying trans should have their own section, as asserted….

Wow. Virtually everyone is against this.
Teammates. Competition. Fans…

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/seco...teps-forward-describes-teammates-in-tears.amp

This was posted showing many peoples feelings about this.

There definitely should be a trans section. Trans men and trans women are basically the same thing, just like gay women and gay men are the same thing. And if you're the only trans swimmer in your school or conference, tough luck. God didn't intend for you to swim.

This as your general post shortly after.

Oh for crying out loud. The hyperbole is ridiculous. No one said exclusion.

Boxing has weight classes. Wrestling has weight classes.

why cant their be different classes like what was suggested prior the snark?

There is me, even in your snark, adding thoughts about weight classes.

Nothing was suggested except "make trans people their own thing," which, by itself, is obviously ridiculous. It's not on us if you drop in an incomplete idea that makes no sense by itself--you need to flesh it out so that it could actually work in real life.

Here is your response saying nothing was said but make trans their own thing. This is wrong as evidenced above. But yet still you go on to consider it “ridiculous” even though your original assertion of it was wrong. Again, as evidenced above.

and your way of fleshing it out is to respond with snark versus asking for clarity?


Got it…

Here is me clarifying your snark with not much else.

Yes, because that sort of ill-thought-out, exclusionary-on-its-face idea makes discussions like this worse, not better. Instead of just throwing shit against the wall in case something sticks, why not go to the effort of thinking something through first? "Random shit that happens to enter your mind" doesn't really deserve much more than snark.

Here is you belittling hoopshuru and myself because our comments didn't meet your intellectually thought out requirement. Clearly condescending of our conversation as “not up to par” for you.

Agree to disagree.

okay. Sure. We can totally agree you were wrong. You can disagree if you like, but as evidenced above, you would still be wrong…

But im cool moving on. I know how it went down, whether you want to deny it or not.

 

[barfo]

Isn't any athlete dominating in any sport fundamentally selfish? Your winning doesn't cure cancer, feed the poor, or really, do a damn bit of good for anyone but yourself.

barfo

Not if it's fair competition... A biological man dominating biological women is not competition.

What does fair have to do with selfish?

barfo

 

[Hoopguru]

What are they competing with you in?

lol...thanks

 

[Hoopguru]

What does fair have to do with selfish?

barfo

What does competing have to do with selfish? You inserted selfish into the discussion, just askin.

 

[Hoopguru]

What does fair have to do with selfish?

barfo

I mean A Commie Pinko Pirate concerned about being unselfish?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[barfo]

I mean A Commie Pinko Pirate concerned about being unselfish?

The pirate part is selfish, the commie part is not. I am large, I contain multitudes.

barfo

 

[barfo]

What does competing have to do with selfish? You inserted selfish into the discussion, just askin.

No, actually it was ABM, in post #689.

My god man, have you not been reading every single post???

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

Here is you belittling hoopshuru and myself

What does hoopsguru have to do with any of this?

As for the rest of your post, I thought we already agreed to disagree.