OT "I'm Dealing With A Few Transgender Issues"

[crandc]

I don't watch Springer, but Trans people have as much variety of sexual orientation as cis people. Why should it be surprising that some trans people are gay? I've known two trans lesbians. I have said before our community is diverse. Doesn't conform to straight cis people's stereotypes.

 

[Minstrel]

Everything's a head-scratcher for some people.

 

[barfo]

 

[donkiez]

Happy New Year.

I'll never forget that one episode of Jerry Springer. It was about people who had had sex changes then became gay. I think one of the couples both had had sex changes. It was a head-scratcher for sure.

It makes more sense when you realize gender identity and sexual orientation are two completely different things.

 

[ABM]

Well, if you say so.

 

[crandc]

It's not "who says so". It's a fact as anyone who knows about the subject would realize.
Does ABM accept that cis people can be straight, gay, bi, pansexual, asexual?
Then why not trans people?
Or does ABM believe that only straight is "normal" or "real" and the rest of us are just sick people needing "cure" or sinners who if we pray hard enough Jesus will make us straight?

As I said before, thread is incorrectly titled. It's not about "working with trans thing" but about spewing bigotry and trying to find excuses for it.
Go ahead, call me hateful.

 

[Shaboid]

And that's why you're treated special when you get off you ship!

 

[Phatguysrule]

It's not "who says so". It's a fact as anyone who knows about the subject would realize.
Does ABM accept that cis people can be straight, gay, bi, pansexual, asexual?
Then why not trans people?
Or does ABM believe that only straight is "normal" or "real" and the rest of us are just sick people needing "cure" or sinners who if we pray hard enough Jesus will make us straight?

As I said before, thread is incorrectly titled. It's not about "working with trans thing" but about spewing bigotry and trying to find excuses for it.
Go ahead, call me hateful.

Is it bigotry, or just lack of understanding?

Granted, there is a definite reluctance involved as well, but I'm not sure if that rises to the level of bigotry.

It's a fine line, to be sure. An incredibly uncomfortable one. But I just have trouble seeing ABM as a bigot. Certainly he has a bias which is clearly on display, and his efforts are skewed to confirming that bias, but bigot seems so much more deliberately harmful/hateful than what I see from him.

Perhaps my understanding of the term "bigot" is too negative?

 

[THE HCP]

Is it bigotry, or just lack of understanding?

Granted, there is a definite reluctance involved as well, but I'm not sure if that rises to the level of bigotry.

It's a fine line, to be sure. An incredibly uncomfortable one. But I just have trouble seeing ABM as a bigot. Certainly he has a bias which is clearly on display, and his efforts are skewed to confirming that bias, but bigot seems so much more deliberately harmful/hateful than what I see from him.

Perhaps my understanding of the term "bigot" is too negative?

Then why do you think he started this thread bro? You are giving him too much credit. His post history is all you have to look at.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Then why do you think he started this thread bro? You are giving him too much credit. His post history is all you have to look at.

I think he started this thread trying to understand. I think he was hoping some feedback would help him deal with it the best way possible.

That's just my impression.

 

[crandc]

I do see that cis people can have trouble understanding trans people. But there is also what I call deliberate misunderstanding. I have seen too many snide remarks and too many personal hostile posts. I can't claim to know what is in another person's head but I can see the impression they make.
Meanwhile the school where the two teachers taught has shut down Gay Straight Alliance and UBU. Students now have nowhere to go and no one to talk to, which was the point of the antitrans activist. Make them hurt.

 

[THE HCP]

I think he started this thread trying to understand. I think he was hoping some feedback would help him deal with it the best way possible.

That's just my impression.

He straight up has you fooled. That is the EXACT opposite of why he started this thread. Please look at his posts form the past 6 years, all you need to see.

 

[calvin natt]

Every time I read this thread title it just bugs me. Trans “thing”?

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've known ABM for a lot longer than 6 years. Perhaps I'm allowing that to skew my observation skills, but I've seen nothing hateful from him.

Yes, he supports some policies which hateful people have used in terrible ways, but I don't think he does so from a position of hate, as much as due to peer pressure. The people he spends time with support these policies and so his perspective has been skewed.

This is often doubly true for people who use a god as a moral compass.

I certainly understand your frustration, but many people exhibit these same tendencies toward many topics. I would say a majority of people do so regarding topics they don't understand.

 

[calvin natt]

I've known ABM for a lot longer than 6 years. Perhaps I'm allowing that to skew my observation skills, but I've seen nothing hateful from him.

Yes, he supports some policies which hateful people have used in terrible ways, but I don't think he does so from a position of hate, as much as due to peer pressure. The people he spends time with support these policies and so his perspective has been skewed.

This is often doubly true for people who use a god as a moral compass.

I certainly understand your frustration, but many people exhibit these same tendencies toward many topics. I would say a majority of people do so regarding topics they don't understand.

Ok but for me personally, I’m completely done with the “but both sides” bullshit. Nope. No more. Done. Over.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ok but for me personally, I’m completely done with the “but both sides” bullshit. Nope. No more. Done. Over.

I don't see things from a democrat or republican lense, so I don't really care about "but both sides" argument.

I see things from an effective or ineffective lense. That's all I care about.

Does it improve things and does it not improve things. Parties and teams are just more ways to muddy the water and confuse people into acting against their best interests.

 

[ABM]

Does ABM accept that cis people can be straight, gay, bi, pansexual, asexual?

I get all that. I just found the show's content to be at least interesting. Is that wrong?

 

[Minstrel]

Is it bigotry, or just lack of understanding?

Granted, there is a definite reluctance involved as well, but I'm not sure if that rises to the level of bigotry.

It's a fine line, to be sure. An incredibly uncomfortable one. But I just have trouble seeing ABM as a bigot. Certainly he has a bias which is clearly on display, and his efforts are skewed to confirming that bias, but bigot seems so much more deliberately harmful/hateful than what I see from him.

Perhaps my understanding of the term "bigot" is too negative?

If this were the first time he was being told, I'd agree. But ABM has had these things pointed out to him many times, on LGBTQ+ issues, on race, and he keeps "just asking questions" which "just so happen" to sound bigoted. You're perfectly entitled to give him as much benefit of the doubt as you want but I, and presumably some others, start to lose interest in the distinction between "bigoted" and "always says bigoted things, but not from a bigoted place in his heart" or whatever. Eventually, over a long enough sample size, you are what you express and how you behave. No one can see into other people's hearts, so we go by what they put into the world.

 

[ABM]

He straight up has you fooled. That is the EXACT opposite of why he started this thread. Please look at his posts form the past 6 years, all you need to see.

Don't let ignorance become you, bro. That said, I have many opinions in here, and am entitle to every one of them.

 

[ABM]

If this were the first time he was being told, I'd agree. But ABM has had these things pointed out to him many times, on LGBTQ+ issues, on race, and he keeps "just asking questions" which "just so happen" to sound bigoted. You're perfectly entitled to give him as much benefit of the doubt as you want but I, and presumably some others, start to lose interest in the distinction between "bigoted" and "always says bigoted things, but not from a bigoted place in his heart" or whatever. Eventually, over a long enough sample size, you are what you express and how you behave. No one can see into other people's hearts, so we go by what they put into the world.

Well, you can call me anything you'd like. You're perfectly entitled to do that within the confines of S2's rules. I would strongly disagree with your assessments, above. Moreover, you have no idea what I put into this world.

 

[riverman]

One of my pet peeves about some people is how they like to ask questions just to open up doors for arguing a topic...knowing they don't respect the opposing views before they enter a conversation...to me that's just fishing for adversaries. It's refreshing when adults actually enter a conversation with a point of view on the topic and actually post that instead ...now if humor is involved that's a game changer...

 

[ABM]

Is it bigotry, or just lack of understanding?

Granted, there is a definite reluctance involved as well, but I'm not sure if that rises to the level of bigotry.

It's a fine line, to be sure. An incredibly uncomfortable one. But I just have trouble seeing ABM as a bigot. Certainly he has a bias which is clearly on display, and his efforts are skewed to confirming that bias, but bigot seems so much more deliberately harmful/hateful than what I see from him.

Perhaps my understanding of the term "bigot" is too negative?

Bigot is not a definition to be associated with me. Who in here has the corner on that definition anyway? I may highly question things, but does that define me? When we cease to question is the concern.

 

[Phatguysrule]

One of my pet peeves about some people is how they like to ask questions just to open up doors for arguing a topic...knowing they don't respect the opposing views before they enter a conversation...to me that's just fishing for adversaries. It's refreshing when adults actually enter a conversation with a point of view on the topic and actually post that instead ...now if humor is involved that's a game changer...

And I completely understand all of that. But I don't think that makes a person a bigot. The argument for bias is certainly a strong one. But is it bigoted to ask questions?

Bigoted just seems far too strong a word for a poster in a thread which has honestly lacked any antagonistic tone whatsoever.

 

[riverman]

And I completely understand all of that. But I don't think that makes a person a bigot. The argument for bias is certainly a strong one. But is it bigoted to ask questions?

Bigoted just seems far too strong a word for a poster in a thread which has honestly lacked any antagonistic tone whatsoever.

This has nothing to do with my train of thought or post so....I'm not following your drift.....if people post clips of bigoted material...vote for bigots...prop up bigoted propoganda...then they ask to be defined as being associated with bigotry. I'm trying to avoid insulting people I don't know but I can tell a lot by how someone discusses a topic what their tendencies are. Asking questions is fine is the intention is honest discourse but when it's veiled as an excuse to just argue....it's disingenuous in my opinion.

 

[riverman]

Who in here has the corner on that definition anyway?

That would have to be some square

 

[Phatguysrule]

This has nothing to do with my train of thought or post so....I'm not following your drift.....if people post clips of bigoted material...vote for bigots...prop up bigoted propoganda...then they ask to be defined as being associated with bigotry. I'm trying to avoid insulting people I don't know but I can tell a lot by how someone discusses a topic what their tendencies are. Asking questions is fine is the intention is honest discourse but when it's veiled as an excuse to just argue....it's disingenuous in my opinion.

All very solid points.

 

[crandc]

If I based my entire knowledge of Christianity on Jerry Springer, and formed an opinion based on it, how would ABM react? If I judged Christianity without ever talking to a Christian or reading Christian writing, how would ABM react? If I referred to Christians as "thing"?

 

[Lanny]

Is it bigotry, or just lack of understanding?

Granted, there is a definite reluctance involved as well, but I'm not sure if that rises to the level of bigotry.

It's a fine line, to be sure. An incredibly uncomfortable one. But I just have trouble seeing ABM as a bigot. Certainly he has a bias which is clearly on display, and his efforts are skewed to confirming that bias, but bigot seems so much more deliberately harmful/hateful than what I see from him.

Perhaps my understanding of the term "bigot" is too negative?

I know from my many years of interfacing with ABM that he is a wonderful, kind and generous man and let me add this in all sincerity, his wife is a lucky woman. Okay, that's the last you'll hear of me speaking of a woman as being lucky, well maybe with the exception of that model that broke my cherry.

 

[Lanny]

If I based my entire knowledge of Christianity on Jerry Springer, and formed an opinion based on it, how would ABM react? If I judged Christianity without ever talking to a Christian or reading Christian writing, how would ABM react? If I referred to Christians as "thing"?

More importantly from my point of view, how would I react? I don't think I could find it in me to react with hate. I would hope that I would react with the sorrow that my church has taught me for the last 70 years rather than hate or deep anger, at least that's my inclination as a Christian although a Christian who needs a lot of forgiveness.

 

[donkiez]

If I based my entire knowledge of Christianity on Jerry Springer, and formed an opinion based on it,

Ironically you would probably have a better opinion of Christianity if you did. Jerry's final thoughts were always messages of peace, love, understanding and acceptance.