I'm honestly conflicted

[Further]

With regards to taking in Syrian refugees. There are so many good points made by both sides. Anyone else conflicted?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

no

 

[dviss1]

 

[Sedatedfork]

I am just glad that I don't have to make these decisions. Washington is apparently accepting Syrian refugees, but I don't live in fear because of it.

 

[dviss1]

 

[magnifier661]

With regards to taking in Syrian refugees. There are so many good points made by both sides. Anyone else conflicted?

I'm conflicted with anyone that ignores our national security

 

[magnifier661]

How many women and children you see in this migration?

P.S. You are aware a women suicide bomber just blew herself up on the recent raid in Paris.

 

[Sedatedfork]

I'm conflicted with anyone that ignores our national security

What does ignore mean to you?

 

[magnifier661]

What does ignore mean to you?

5 ISIS members just caught trying to come into the country through mexico with fake Syrian passports. 8 ISIS member caught trying to come in through Turkey into Europe posing as Syrian refugees. When ISIS themselves, whom have done everything they advertise they say they will do, proclaim that they will infiltrate the Western World as Syrian Refugees.

 

[Sedatedfork]

5 ISIS members just caught trying to come into the country through mexico with fake Syrian passports. 8 ISIS member caught trying to come in through Turkey into Europe posing as Syrian refugees. When ISIS themselves, whom have done everything they advertise they say they will do, proclaim that they will infiltrate the Western World as Syrian Refugees.

So they were caught? In other words, security wasn't ignored?

 

[magnifier661]

So they were caught? In other words, security wasn't ignored?

No, it proves there is an actual threat to our national security. Out of 10k refugees, even if there are 10-20 ISIS members that slip through, innocent blood will be on the hands of the government that allows them in. If I poison 10 gum balls, where even one would kill you, out of 10k, would you grab a handful and eat them?

 

[magnifier661]

Our country has been known for its compassion for immigration and refugees, but that takes a back seat to national security. Every elected official swears to protect every citizen of the United States. They must protect us before they protect others. It's a sad situation, but there are other ways to protect those refugees with a collaboration of other countries. You can secure a safe area in either Syria or Southern Iraq, where military protect this zone. The native Syrians really don't want to leave. They are forced to because they fear their lives. If the country was safe, they would never leave.

 

[Sedatedfork]

No, it proves there is an actual threat to our national security. Out of 10k refugees, even if there are 10-20 ISIS members that slip through, innocent blood will be on the hands of the government that allows them in. If I poison 10 gum balls, where even one would kill you, out of 10k, would you grab a handful and eat them?

I guess my point is that security is not being ignored. You may disagree with some/many/all of the security policies, but to say that security is being ignored is misleading. As for the gumballs, what would be your solution. Send all the gumballs and the poisonous ones too to another country so that maybe they could kill other people? Destroy all the gumballs? Maybe put the gumballs in camps so they can be controlled? What if we are all gumballs? Maybe we should just all kill ourselves to get rid of the few bad gumballs? I don't have any answers to the situation. All I am going to do is live my life without fear, because otherwise the poisonous gumballs have won.

 

[Further]

I am just glad that I don't have to make these decisions. Washington is apparently accepting Syrian refugees, but I don't live in fear because of it.

I don't live in fear, but that's partially because I live in rural Washington state. One of my best friends (I was his best man) lives in DC with his 5 month old daughter.

I don't base my opinions on bluster so those memes mean nothing. And fear doesn't have much to do with it, it's that I can't make an honest assessment on if this policy will bring actual danger and possibly terrorism to the United States. I have listened to experts with both opinions and I simply don't have the actual information needed to correctly assess the situation. I want to help the children, women, tortured victims if Isis but if the cost is the lives of citizens then the answer has to be to find another way to assist.

I'm conflicted with anyone that ignores our national security

I don't think most ignor it, they just listen and only apply credibly to the experts that say the threat is only imagined and that these discarded souls are who we need to attend to in order to actually start winning back the hearts and minds of the Muslim community in order to eventually have a true victory.

 

[magnifier661]

I guess my point is that security is not being ignored. You may disagree with some/many/all of the security policies, but to say that security is being ignored is misleading. As for the gumballs, what would be your solution. Send all the gumballs and the poisonous ones too to another country so that maybe they could kill other people? Destroy all the gumballs? Maybe put the gumballs in camps so they can be controlled? What if we are all gumballs? Maybe we should just all kill ourselves to get rid of the few bad gumballs? I don't have any answers to the situation. All I am going to do is live my life without fear, because otherwise the poisonous gumballs have won.

No, the gum balls wouldn't win if our fucking president would unite the world, instead of pushing his world view agenda. There is an opportunity here to protect Syrians by securing an area with all nations support. It actually protects them faster because the "vetting process" takes 2 years regardless. Secure a place and allow the migration there and they can be safe immediately. And with military support, they can organically weed out the infiltration. by policing the area.

 

[Sedatedfork]

No, the gum balls wouldn't win if our fucking president would unite the world, instead of pushing his world view agenda. There is an opportunity here to protect Syrians by securing an area with all nations support. It actually protects them faster because the "vetting process" takes 2 years regardless. Secure a place and allow the migration there and they can be safe immediately. And with military support, they can organically weed out the infiltration. by policing the area.

Hah! I knew you were anti-gumball!!!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No.

 

[Nikolokolus]

With regards to taking in Syrian refugees. There are so many good points made by both sides. Anyone else conflicted?

Sure. Feeling conflicted is normal for most sane people when faced with difficult and complicated circumstances.

 

[Nikolokolus]

"[...]We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men — not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular." - Edward R. Murrow

 

[BlazerWookee]

Hah! I knew you were anti-gumball!!!

I'm anti Bryant Gumball...

 

[Further]

"[...]We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men — not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were, for the moment, unpopular." - Edward R. Murrow

It's a beautiful sentiment but I'm not sure all actions against accepting refugees are based in fear, they may simply be pragmatic. I have no fear for myself because of where I live, but I still don't want to put other Americans at risk. I also don't want to begin a cascade in America of terrorism kicked off by one or two refugees whose disdain for west begins a plight of "bedroom jihadism" like now exists in Brussels. communities form for good and bad and it only takes one or two extremist youths to corrupt their friends and eventually create a cell.

 

[magnifier661]

It's a beautiful sentiment but I'm not sure all actions against accepting refugees are based in fear, they may simply be pragmatic. I have no fear for myself because of where I live, but I still don't want to put other Americans at risk. I also don't want to begin a cascade in America of terrorism kicked off by one or two refugees whose disdain for west begins a plight of "bedroom jihadism" like now exists in Brussels. communities form for good and bad and it only takes one or two extremist youths to corrupt their friends and eventually create a cell.

One suicide bomber can kill a lot of people. It's not living in fear. It's being smart.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The next time I'm truly afraid of something will be the first time since I hit puberty. Being cautious is different.

I pull vehicles on a frame rack using chains and hydraulic rams. I have put 7 tons of pressure on a chain with this machine. If the chain were to break it could kill someone in it's path. The other day I was doing this while our mechanic was near.

I yelled at him to stay out of the way of the machine. He told me "you can't be scared all of your life"

I wasn't scared, I am educated to what can happen and have seen people hurt by it before.

So the memes are bullshit. More people are scared of being labeled a racist or a pussy about this than anything.

Soooo, sorry. Help them, that doesn't mean bring them here.

I guess I am an asshole. Just not afraid.

 

[Further]

One suicide bomber can kill a lot of people. It's not living in fear. It's being smart.

On the other hand, loving ones neighbor and bringing them into your society may be what's needed long term to help convince the larger Muslim community that we are worth fighting with and not against. That we protect the innocent and that is a better cause than jihadism.

 

[Nikolokolus]

It's a beautiful sentiment but I'm not sure all actions against accepting refugees are based in fear, they may simply be pragmatic. I have no fear for myself because of where I live, but I still don't want to put other Americans at risk. I also don't want to begin a cascade in America of terrorism kicked off by one or two refugees whose disdain for west begins a plight of "bedroom jihadism" like now exists in Brussels. communities form for good and bad and it only takes one or two extremist youths to corrupt their friends and eventually create a cell.

The terrorists who carried out the Paris attacks were homegrown.

Now I'm not saying that you can screen all bad actors, but I wonder if our current Muslim population wouldn't be even more prone to to radicalization with wanton disregard for Syrian lives.

And let's face it, ISIS is a problem we helped create with our bumbling around in Iraq for the past decade+. I've always been a "you break it, you buy it" kind of guy.

 

[magnifier661]

On the other hand, loving ones neighbor and bringing them into your society may be what's needed long term to help convince the larger Muslim community that we are worth fighting with and not against. That we protect the innocent and that is a better cause than jihadism.

That is, of course, the muslims in this country are actually sympathetic to core american values.

http://nypost.com/2014/09/07/jihadi-behind-beheading-videos-linked-to-notorious-us-mosque/

When it was revealed that the Boston Marathon bombers attended a Cambridge, Mass., mosque, its leaders were quick to disavow their actions.

Elder brother Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s ideology was not their own, the leaders of the Islamic Society mosque claimed. In fact, he was admonished for an extremist outburst he made during one sermon.

So, one crackpot in a congregation. Who can blame the mosque?

But what about eight — including a prominent member of ISIS?

As it turns out, worshippers at the Islamic Society have included:

•  Abdurahman Alamoudi, the mosque’s founder and first president, who in 2004 was sentenced to 23 years in prison for plotting terrorism. In 2005, the Treasury Department issued a statement saying Alamoudi raised money for al Qaeda in the US.
•  Aafia Siddiqui, an MIT scientist-turned-al Qaeda agent, who in 2010 was sentenced to 86 years in prison for planning a New York chemical attack. Known as “Lady al Qaeda,” she is related to 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheik Mohammed. ISIS has tried to trade her release for journalist hostages.
•  Tarek Mehanna, who in 2012 got 17 years in prison for conspiring to use automatic weapons to murder shoppers in a suburban Boston mall.
• Yusuf al-Qaradawi, a mosque trustee and Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood leader banned from the US after issuing a fatwa that called for the killing of US soldiers.
• Jamal Badawi, another former trustee who in 2007 was named an unindicted co-conspirator in a plan to funnel more than $12 million to Palestinian suicide bombers.

Now it can be revealed that another regular worshipper at the Islamic Society mosque was Ahmad Abousamra, who is now the top propagandist for ISIS.

Modal Trigger

Aafia Siddiqui
Dr. Abousamra, now chief of endocrinology at Wayne State University in Detroit, did not return emails and phone calls seeking comment.

As for the Islamic Society, it insists it isn’t preaching hate.

But how many terrorists does it take before people are convinced it isn’t a coincidence?

Paul Sperry is a Hoover Institution media fellow and author of “Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives Have Penetrated Washington.”

 

[Further]

The terrorists who carried out the Paris attacks were homegrown.

But many of them were shown to have links to that community in Brussels. And it's those tight communities that can be radicalized. Take a look at the brothers who pulled off the Boston Bombing. They were refugees as little kids who became radicalized mostly here. Bringing over the Syrian refugees includes a risk that even if we are able to perfectly screen candidates that those refugees down the road will be radicalized. Remember, many of them will continue to identify more with people from their homeland than the Americans that bring them in.

Now I'm not saying that you can screen all bad actors, but I wonder if our current Muslim population wouldn't be even more prone to to radicalization with wanton disregard for Syrian lives.

They might. It could work either way. They could be pissed we didn't help, or someone we help could plant a seed. I really don't know.

And let's face it, ISIS is a problem we helped create with our bumbling around in Iraq for the past decade+. I've always been a "you break it, you buy it" kind of guy.

It was already cracked, we just knocked it over. And history has shown that continuing to medal and try and correct or fix issues we created often continues to cause more problems. I'm not sure which this would actually fall into. If we try and fix things then we are continuing to interfere and that is where a lot of disdain also comes from.

 

[RR7]

No, it proves there is an actual threat to our national security. Out of 10k refugees, even if there are 10-20 ISIS members that slip through, innocent blood will be on the hands of the government that allows them in. If I poison 10 gum balls, where even one would kill you, out of 10k, would you grab a handful and eat them?

The gumball analogy is a poor one, but, it's making the rounds on Facebook, so I guess I'll just have to get used to seeing it repeated.
But let's say for every 10k guns manufactured in the country, 10 are going to be used illegally to murder innocent people. By your same thinking with refugees, it's worth it to get rid of guns to protect innocent lives, no?

 

[Sedatedfork]

Most people die in hospitals. Avoid hospitals if you can.

 

[MarAzul]

With regards to taking in Syrian refugees. There are so many good points made by both sides. Anyone else conflicted?

No.

I don't live in fear, but that's partially because I live in rural Washington state

I feel secure in living in an out of way place also. But is hurts to see my Countryman slaughtered anywhere.