"I'm nothing now"

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Mediocre Man said:
I don't really agree with papaG on this, but it's nothing like what you describe at all.
Click to expand...

The rhetorical technique is equivalent, but crandc does totally blow it on moral equivalence; I don't think that's her point, though. She did kind of Godwin the thing though.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
The rhetorical technique is equivalent, but crandc does totally blow it on moral equivalence; I don't think that's her point, though. She did kind of Godwin the thing though.
Click to expand...

See I don't think the rhetorical technique was equivalent. There are many, many people who have questioned Brittney Griner's gender. More people now that she is not playing in the olympics because they have gender testing. It's not just looking at anyone and saying hey, I think that person might not be 100% female or whatever. It's looking at someone with a lot of characteristics that make people go hmm. If she had said "It's like looking at someone who works at a school where little kids were being molested that people have questioned in the past about the same thing is a child molester" That would have been the same. Then going on to say "just wondering" is silly also because he is not just wondering. Many people have been, and many articles have been written on the subject
 
Good point that even the rhetorical equivalence was sketchy. It's close from a layman's perspective, but logicians tend to sneer at "close enough".

Many people speculating doesn't get you much closer to the truth, though... It's funny because knowing or not knowing affects nothing in any meaningful way. Griner being a hermaphrodite doesn't save Greece's economy. Griner being "completely" a woman doesn't save Spain from riots of 50% youth unemployment.

...also what an odd world that would be if our world economy was dependent on Griner being both a hermaphrodite and "completely" a woman. Someone double-booked the drama.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
PapaG is the only one in this conversation assuming a gender placement by observation alone; that the others in the conversation are not willing to engage in speculation based on looks or sounds is not a symptom of closed-mindedness, but is instead a symptom of a mindset that consists of (a) not speculating on something as important as gender from something as easy to deceive as "your own eyes" or "common sense", and (b) recognizing that the only place the truth can come from is Griner, rendering any conversation on this essentially a non-starter.

That others in this conversation with PapaG are angry is because of the disingenuous tone, reminiscent of grade school where bullies insist they aren't going to do anything bad, as they lay a conversational trap for the bullied. That these other people recognize this technique just sets them on edge from the start, which makes the technique effective (which is itself equally frustrating).

So, in summary: nobody buys the fake sincerity; nobody can know for sure without Griner telling them. Any continuation beyond this point is pointless unless it's to needle other participants in the conversation, which I fully expect to happen given PapaG's reputation.

Good day.
Click to expand...

The only thing worthy of making me "angry" is being smeared as a homophobe. I suppose that's considered intelligent discourse, however. Also, it's false to say the only place the truth can come is from Griner. If she participates in the Olympics, testing there will say if she has naturally high levels of testosterone.
 
Last edited:
BlazerCaravan said:
Good point that even the rhetorical equivalence was sketchy. It's close from a layman's perspective, but logicians tend to sneer at "close enough".

Many people speculating doesn't get you much closer to the truth, though... It's funny because knowing or not knowing affects nothing in any meaningful way. Griner being a hermaphrodite doesn't save Greece's economy. Griner being "completely" a woman doesn't save Spain from riots of 50% youth unemployment.

...also what an odd world that would be if our world economy was dependent on Griner being both a hermaphrodite and "completely" a woman. Someone double-booked the drama.
Click to expand...

How did Greece and Spain come into play here? The majority of message board conversations are based on speculation. Griner's name came up, and I just found it odd that crandc would act so insulted that others may speculate about her genetic make-up. I even posted that the sports' world has a very narrow view of gender, yet as we've seen in a few other cases, with Caster Semenya being the most recent example, not all female athletes have the same genetic composition.

If you don't want to discuss it because of it being me you're discussing it, well, that's fair and your prerogative, but to dismiss the opinion outright isn't really fair to those female athletes who already have been unable to compete in Olympic sports because of high levels of testosterone. It would be nice to have an intelligent conversation on this, and how sports could maybe be changed to allow for these natural outliers, but when the first call is "HOMOPHOBE", it's obvious that a serious conversation is not in the cards.
 
PapaG said:
How did Greece and Spain come into play here? The majority of message board conversations are based on speculation. Griner's name came up, and I just found it odd that crandc would act so insulted that others may speculate about her genetic make-up. I even posted that the sports' world has a very narrow view of gender, yet as we've seen in a few other cases, with Caster Semenya being the most recent example, not all female athletes have the same genetic composition.

If you don't want to discuss it because of it being me you're discussing it, well, that's fair and your prerogative, but to dismiss the opinion outright isn't really fair to those female athletes who already have been unable to compete in Olympic sports because of high levels of testosterone. It would be nice to have an intelligent conversation on this, and how sports could maybe be changed to allow for these natural outliers, but when the first call is "HOMOPHOBE", it's obvious that a serious conversation is not in the cards.
Click to expand...


Greece and Spain are both notorious for being extremely homophobic countries
 
PapaG said:
The only thing worthy of making me "angry" is being smeared as a homophobe. I suppose that's considered intelligent discourse, however.
Click to expand...

What were you angry about the other night? :MARIS61:

For the record.... I don't think any of PapaG's posts would indicate he's a homophobe. He asked a question that many people have asked. I get why Griner would be offended by the question and why she's bothered by the speculation. But nobody here should really be taking offense to the inquiry - IMO, there's not really anything I've seen him say on the topic that would indicate he's a homophobe, his comments have come more from a place of inquiry, observations he has made about Griner, and science/genetics.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
What were you angry about the other night? :MARIS61:

For the record.... I don't think any of PapaG's posts would indicate he's a homophobe. He asked a question that many people have asked. I get why Griner would be offended by the question and why she's bothered by the speculation. But nobody here should really be taking offense to the inquiry - IMO, there's not really anything I've seen him say on the topic that would indicate he's a homophobe, his comments have come more from a place of inquiry, observations he has made about Griner, and science/genetics.
Click to expand...

I don't think PapaG is a homophobe; I just think SlyPokerDog is a total ass who is using clumsy rhetorical techniques to bully other people in the conversation.
 
Perhaps she herself is afraid to find out as it would probably ruin her career in the WNBA.
 
oldmangrouch said:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/gallery/featured/GAL1151526/5/18/index.htm

Anybody else remember this lady? Nobody ever accused Mary Decker of not being "traditionally feminine".....but at one point in her career, she somehow flunked a PED test for having "excess testosterone."

If you want to knock a jock off their pedestal, you can always find a way to do it. Jealousy is a powerful thing.
Click to expand...

no, if you ever have one test that shows heightened testosterone, then you have a penis
 
chriscrocker1.gif
 
3RA1N1AC said:
no, if you ever have one test that shows heightened testosterone, then you have a penis
Click to expand...

It typically means you took testosterone shots, like Decker took.

She was what, 40 and trying to make a comeback when she tested positive?
 
PapaG said:
It typically means you took testosterone shots, like Decker took.

She was what, 40 and trying to make a comeback when she tested positive?
Click to expand...
Did she? I thought the severe overtraining that she did reduced her body fat to zero and altered her hormonal levels. I thought that was not uncommon for women distance runners?
 
You guys are so knowledgeable about hermie's. I gotta say, I'm über jelly!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top