I'm So SICK & TIRED of Neil Olshey (2 Viewers)

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Scalma said:
What mistakes has he repeatedly made?
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His Free Agent targets.
Sticking with Terry.
Letting the W/L record or a fluke Playoff victory make him think we're better than we are.
 
hoopsjock said:
You can't force players to come here. He's made one truly horrendous signing in free agency (Turner). The rest of his signings have been mostly decent value signings like Davis, Aminu, and Mo Williams. I really don't want to get into the players that didn't sign as we've beaten that dead horse.
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I don't fault him for NOT signing the players that didn't sign here. I fault him for targeting them to begin with. We're VERY lucky many of those players decided to sign elsewhere.
When Ed Davis (or Mo Williams) is your best signing, that's a problem.
 
blue9 said:
I don't fault him for NOT signing the players that didn't sign here. I fault him for targeting them to begin with. We're VERY lucky many of those players decided to sign elsewhere.
When Ed Davis (or Mo Williams) is your best signing, that's a problem.
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But that is a Portland problem since the introduction of free agency in sports. It doesn't really matter who the targets are. I'm not getting into this again as you can reread this thread for my thoughts but I refuse to factor free agents that didn't sign into the equation. I will only focus on moves that were actually made.
 
hoopsjock said:
But that is a Portland problem since the introduction of free agency in sports. It doesn't really matter who the targets are. I'm not getting into this again as you can reread this thread for my thoughts but I refuse to factor free agents that didn't sign into the equation. I will only focus on moves that were actually made.
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Do you think NO got really lucky Nurkic was actually good? Or do you think he actually thought he was trading for a potential starting center?
 
blue9 said:
His Free Agent targets.
Sticking with Terry.
Letting the W/L record or a fluke Playoff victory make him think we're better than we are.
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Playoff victories and reacting poorly to them are a repeated mistake when it's only happened ONE time? The first time we made the 2nd round that team was actually good.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Do you think NO got really lucky Nurkic was actually good? Or do you think he actually thought he was trading for a potential starting center?
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The whole premise that a trade Olshey made was simply lucky is the most asinine thing I have heard about him. You blame him when things out of his control like injuries happen but then don't give him credit when a move he makes works out and is just lucky? I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit in my opinion.

So yes, I believe he saw Nurk as a potential decent center (just like Plumlee and RoLo trades) AND he got a 1st round pick. That was a great trade. I think he'll regret not making similar moves with Davis, Napier, and Connaughton at the deadline.
 
hoopsjock said:
But that is a Portland problem since the introduction of free agency in sports. It doesn't really matter who the targets are. I'm not getting into this again as you can reread this thread for my thoughts but I refuse to factor free agents that didn't sign into the equation. I will only focus on moves that were actually made.
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Not to mention none of us know for a fact the actual backstories. For example, there were conflicting reports on who backed off the Parsons deal. There’s really no point in debating something that didn’t even happen. There are more productive things to talk about.
 
hoopsjock said:
The whole premise that a trade Olshey made was simply lucky is the most asinine thing I have heard about him. You blame him when things out of his control like injuries happen but then don't give him credit when a move he makes works out and is just lucky? I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit in my opinion.

So yes, I believe he saw Nurk as a potential decent center (just like Plumlee and RoLo trades) AND he got a 1st round pick. That was a great trade. I think he'll regret not making similar moves with Davis, Napier, and Connaughton at the deadline.
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I didn’t claim one way or another on Nurkic simply asked. I personally think he did that trade mostly because of the 1st round pick, he thought Nurkic might have potential, but I think Nurkic was better than anyone really though including NO. I have heard a lot of people say that NO got lucky with Nurkic and that saved his job, which is why I was asking your opinion on it.
 
Scalma said:
Not to mention none of us know for a fact the actual backstories. For example, there were conflicting reports on who backed off the Parsons deal. There’s really no point in debating something that didn’t even happen. There are more productive things to talk about.
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Yup, he could've failed a physical and not signed too. Or we could've known that he was likely signing with Memphis as it was reported he was interested in going there before free agency started so we could've been running up the price on him and doing a favor for an agent. It's not as simple as people make it sound. Saddling Memphis with that contract did in fact partially lead to their demise.
 
hoopsjock said:
The whole premise that a trade Olshey made was simply lucky is the most asinine thing I have heard about him. You blame him when things out of his control like injuries happen but then don't give him credit when a move he makes works out and is just lucky? I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit in my opinion.

So yes, I believe he saw Nurk as a potential decent center (just like Plumlee and RoLo trades) AND he got a 1st round pick. That was a great trade. I think he'll regret not making similar moves with Davis, Napier, and Connaughton at the deadline.
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Also when did I blame NO for an injury?
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I didn’t claim one way or another on Nurkic simply asked. I personally think he did that trade mostly because of the 1st round pick, he thought Nurkic might have potential, but I think Nurkic was better than anyone really though including NO. I have heard a lot of people say that NO got lucky with Nurkic and that saved his job, which is why I was asking your opinion on it.
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I meant the grand you not you.
 
hoopsjock said:
Yup, he could've failed a physical and not signed too. Or we could've known that he was likely signing with Memphis as it was reported he was interested in going there before free agency started so we could've been running up the price on him and doing a favor for an agent. It's not as simple as people make it sound. Saddling Memphis with that contract did in fact partially lead to their demise.
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Funny you mention Parsons agent since it just so happened to be Olsheys favorite; bartelstein.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Also when did I blame NO for an injury?
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You just said it's his job to figure it out no matter what happens. You've also said many times that the GM's job is based on what happens in the end. So if that is the case he gets credit for Nurk no matter what he thought before the trade and gets blame for Wes getting hurt which made the Afflalo trade bad.
 
Scalma said:
Funny you mention Parsons agent since it just so happened to be Olsheys favorite; bartelstein.
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I know, I've mentioned that time and time again and not many seem to be able to comprehend the meaning of that which is why I didn't want to start this again.
 
hoopsjock said:
I know, I've mentioned that time and time again and not many seem to be able to comprehend the meaning of that which is why I didn't want to start this again.
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It’s why I know for a fact Portland will get Michael Porter jr wow can’t wait.

But on a more serious note I wonder what other prospects are repped by bartelstein and priority sports.
 
hoopsjock said:
You just said it's his job to figure it out no matter what happens. You've also said many times that the GM's job is based on what happens in the end. So if that is the case he gets credit for Nurk no matter what he thought before the trade and gets blame for Wes getting hurt which made the Afflalo trade bad.
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I believe GM’s are judged by the outcome yeah, but that’s not “blaming” them because a dude got hurt. It’s just how things are. I agree that NO gets credit for the Nurkic trade, and it doesn’t really matter if he thought Nurkic was good or not.
GM is a tough job in sports because you can do things that everyone thinks is amazing and when it doesn’t work out, you’re judged on the results, Like Presti last summer he was the “best gm” to a lot of people. It didn’t work out very well. I think there are a ton of examples in football too if GM’s who made a bunch of moves people thought they made an unstoppable force and it turned out to just be an average team.
The GM’s job unfortunately is kind of like trying to see the future. I never claimed it was fair. Every single GM we look back in and say they were great or awful because of the results.
 
blue9 said:
He's done a poor job of targeting free agents. If he were as good at evaluating NBA talent as he is at evaluating NCAA talent we'd be a much better team. He also has blinders on when it comes to how the team is coached.
In my book, he's above average at drafting, near average at trading, and below average at Free Agency.
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I've wondered about this. Olshey gets a lot of credit for 'evaluating NCAA talent'. But does he deserve it? Or, like any good manager, does he listen to the advice of the people who actually know what they are talking about? Like: Maybe the Blazers have really good college scouts, and a really good process for getting them together, hashing out their evaluations and opinions, briefing Paul and Olshey, and decision making? If it's only the latter, he would deserve credit for the process and the openness to listen. I'm kind of skeptical that the talent evaluation part is all or even mostly Olshey.

But if any of that's the case, why do they keep shitting the bed on free agent targets? Are the NBA scouts to blame? Or is it Olshey?

It may not be fair of me, but I tend to give the college scouting team more credit than Olshey; while giving Olshey most of the blame for the free agent targets.

Of course, I really don't know.

:dunno:
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Do you think NO got really lucky Nurkic was actually good? Or do you think he actually thought he was trading for a potential starting center?
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Well his quotes, as I remember them (sorry, not going to dig for a link), seemed to indicate that he wanted the pick and Nurk was a pleasant surprise. I was a bit confused by that, because there were a few here who had been on the Nurk train for months before the trade. I figured surely the Blazers knew what they were getting. :dunno:
 
BBert said:
I've wondered about this. Olshey gets a lot of credit for 'evaluating NCAA talent'. But does he deserve it? Or, like any good manager, does he listen to the advice of the people who actually know what they are talking about? Like: Maybe the Blazers have really good college scouts, and a really good process for getting them together, hashing out their evaluations and opinions, briefing Paul and Olshey, and decision making? If it's only the latter, he would deserve credit for the process and the openness to listen. I'm kind of skeptical that the talent evaluation part is all or even mostly Olshey.

But if any of that's the case, why do they keep shitting the bed on free agent targets? Are the NBA scouts to blame? Or is it Olshey?

It may not be fair of me, but I tend to give the college scouting team more credit than Olshey; while giving Olshey most of the blame for the free agent targets.

Of course, I really don't know.

:dunno:
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So every GM in the history of the Blazers has simply been bad at evaluating NBA talent in free agency?
 
BBert said:
Well his quotes, as I remember them (sorry, not going to dig for a link), seemed to indicate that he wanted the pick and Nurk was a pleasant surprise. I was a bit confused by that, because there were a few here who had been on the Nurk train for months before the trade. I figured surely the Blazers knew what they were getting. :dunno:
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I think people put way too much into him being excited about adding a pick. That doesn't mean he didn't have expectations for Nurk though.
 
hoopsjock said:
So every GM in the history of the Blazers has simply been bad at evaluating NBA talent in free agency?
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Hmmmm.....I doubt it?

I'm not talking about free agent signings, per se. Ed Davis is great value. Aminu was a decent signing. Bazz was OK. My impression is the same as the case blue just made: It's about who Olshey has been making big offers to, and for how much. Even the Crabbe signing was essentially a free agent offer. And Turner. Horrible. And a year after almost every other big offer they've made, we were all thanking whatever god we've been told to believe in, that they didn't sign with us.

I'll leave it to you if you think all the previous GMs had the same track record of ill advised offers as Olshey, because I really don't recall.

:cheers:

PS: If you are talking about the Blazers historic inability to sign big name free agents: Yeah, that's not Olshey's fault. No argument there.
 
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hoopsjock said:
I think people put way too much into him being excited about adding a pick. That doesn't mean he didn't have expectations for Nurk though.
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Yeah, that's what I thought at the time. I thought Nurk was a great acquisition the instant I heard about it, and I know less than mediocre man's avatar ;)
 
BBert said:
Well his quotes, as I remember them (sorry, not going to dig for a link), seemed to indicate that he wanted the pick and Nurk was a pleasant surprise. I was a bit confused by that, because there were a few here who had been on the Nurk train for months before the trade. I figured surely the Blazers knew what they were getting. :dunno:
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What I recall from the article was that he wanted Nurkic as a project on a rookie scale contract but was surprised at what level he was at when he first got here, but I got the impression that he wanted the player.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I believe GM’s are judged by the outcome yeah, but that’s not “blaming” them because a dude got hurt. It’s just how things are. I agree that NO gets credit for the Nurkic trade, and it doesn’t really matter if he thought Nurkic was good or not.
GM is a tough job in sports because you can do things that everyone thinks is amazing and when it doesn’t work out, you’re judged on the results, Like Presti last summer he was the “best gm” to a lot of people. It didn’t work out very well. I think there are a ton of examples in football too if GM’s who made a bunch of moves people thought they made an unstoppable force and it turned out to just be an average team.
The GM’s job unfortunately is kind of like trying to see the future. I never claimed it was fair. Every single GM we look back in and say they were great or awful because of the results.
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I never thought Presti was the best GM. A lot of us realized he got lucky twice.
 
BonesJones said:
I never thought Presti was the best GM. A lot of us realized he got lucky twice.
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Last summer, there were a lot of pundits and “experts”, telling us how amazing presti was, doesn’t mean you did, I didn’t believe it either. Though at the time I had wished the Blazers had gotten either pg13 or Melo (turns out Melo isn’t very good anymore). I am just saying we usually judge a GM by how his team performed after the fact.
 
I can't believe this thread is still alive.
 
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