I'm too fat to post in the How To Wear Pants thread

[Hobbesarable]

From what I've been reading, one camp says cheat once in a while is fine, the other says live the lifestyle and cheating costs you a week or two weeks of ketosis.

FWIW

Well, my 1 flex meal each week has worked nicely for me so far.

 

[Further]

From what I've been reading, one camp says cheat once in a while is fine, the other says live the lifestyle and cheating costs you a week or two weeks of ketosis.

FWIW

When I was on an Atkins-like diet I would lose for a while, around 10-15lbs, then plateau. If I just kept with the diet I'd slow to maybe 2 or 3 lbs a month. But, if I had 1 single but all encompassing cheat day, my plateau would end and I'd be back to losing 5-10 a month.

My big problem right now is I have gout, so I need to be on a low purine diet, basically the opposite of low carb. Great for the gout but bad for the belt.

 

[Denny Crane]

When I was on an Atkins-like diet I would lose for a while, around 10-15lbs, then plateau. If I just kept with the diet I'd slow to maybe 2 or 3 lbs a month. But, if I had 1 single but all encompassing cheat day, my plateau would end and I'd be back to losing 5-10 a month.

My big problem right now is I have gout, so I need to be on a low purine diet, basically the opposite of low carb. Great for the gout but bad for the belt.

You can do low purine and low carb. Stay away from turkey and beans (anything that grows in a pod).

What am I missing?

 

[Denny Crane]

Back in 2000, I ran a low grade fever for a month. My big toe felt like it was shot full of Novocain (numb, not painful). I went to the doctor and after a blood test, he told me I had gout. Rich man's disease, he said. Rich foods, men get gout. My cholesterol levels were sky high - ~370. Before putting me on medication, he suggested I try treating it with diet. I asked him how, and he told me to eat less beef and more white meat.

He was no help. I ended up buying books and reading what could be found on the Internet back then.

For 90 days I ate 1200-1600 calories and severely restricted my fat and especially saturated fat. No more than 25% of calories from fat, no more than 6% from saturated fat.

I lost 30 lbs, cured the gout, and my cholesterol level fell to 160.

I ate plenty of pork and chicken, but no turkey. No peanuts or green beans or legumes of any kind.

Considering the doctor said gout is chronic, I say I'm cured because I've had no further signs of gout, either painful joints or in blood tests, since.

Those were my only macros.

I ate pretty well, the meals were quite good. Low calorie pasta with ground chicken meat sauce. Egg beater omelettes with fat free cheese and turkey spam or ham, a half slice of ham, and a fat free eggo waffle with 10 calorie syrup and 3/4 cup of hash browns for ~400 calories. A footling roast beef with no cheese or oil or mayo (mostly anything else) is under 600 calories.

From that point until I quit smoking, my weight fluctuated no more than 10 lbs over my 165 preferred weight.

Going back to this diet after gaining 40lbs after I quit smoking just did not work for me. That's how I got disillusioned about the low fat, low calorie, boost exercise scheme.

Hope this helps.

 

[Further]

You can do low purine and low carb. Stay away from turkey and beans (anything that grows in a pod).

What am I missing?

Most meats and shellfish. You can eat some, but not much and when I'm on a low carb diet, it's basically all meat and veggies. I can still do a lot of most veggies, as you said no beans, and other odd ones like califlower, but veggies are pretty open. But I get pretty desperate if I can't have meat or carbs. It's ok, im going to start taking a medication and that should totally deal with the gout, then I can live off liver and lobster and my gout will never flare. It's just the last few weeks getting my gout under control and then the next couple weeks til the medication starts working.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

Cheat days work great, you will be surprised. But they only work if the next day you are back hard core.

I started doing a low carb + cheat day after reading this blog post:

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2007/04...of-fat-in-30-days-without-doing-any-exercise/

Rule #4: Take one day off per week

I recommend Saturdays as your “Dieters Gone Wild” day. I am allowed to eat whatever I want on Saturdays, and I go out of my way to eat ice cream, Snickers, Take 5, and all of my other vices in excess. I make myself a little sick and don’t want to look at any of it for the rest of the week. Paradoxically, dramatically spiking caloric intake in this way once per week increases fat loss by ensuring that your metabolic rate (thyroid function, etc.) doesn’t downregulate from extended caloric restriction. That’s right: eating pure crap can help you lose fat. Welcome to Utopia.

I'm down 45 pounds!

 

[Denny Crane]

So we did go out for our anniversary and I ate 3 slices of deep dish pizza. Overdoing the carbs definitely kicked my weight loss into a higher gear for a bit. I didn't enjoy the food as much as I thought I would, though.

Speaking of enjoying low carb food... You know you want to:

http://lowcarbcoach.com/peanut-butter-fat-bombs/

 

[Hobbesarable]

I didn't enjoy the food as much as I thought I would, though.

That's good, right?

 

[Denny Crane]

That's good, right?

Sorta. I wish I did enjoy the pizza so the cheat would have been more worth it. I think the pizza just wasn't very good.

I also didn't eat the bones (crust).

 

[Hobbesarable]

Sorta. I wish I did enjoy the pizza so the cheat would have been more worth it. I think the pizza just wasn't very good.

I also didn't eat the bones (crust).

Yeah, it would be nice to enjoy the cheat meal or cheat day if you prefer. However, it could reinforce your good eating habits with low carb food.

 

[MickZagger]

Sorta. I wish I did enjoy the pizza so the cheat would have been more worth it. I think the pizza just wasn't very good.

I also didn't eat the bones (crust).

shoulda took it home and put it on the traeger

 

[RoyToy]

Low carb diets are good short term, but eventually you'll just go back to eating them.

And the main reason a low carb diet works is because when you eliminate an entire macronutrient form your diet like carbs, it's that much harder to get all of the calories you need from fats and protein, both of which keep you feeling fuller and less hungry longer. Easy to create a caloric deficit this way. It's just basic math.

It's good to do for a while, but imo when you completely eliminate something from your diet like carbs, the feeling that you CAN'T have them can easily just lead you to binge eating on carbs at some point. It's that feeling of forcing yourself not to eat something that ultimately backfires on a lot of people unless they're really disciplined.

In the end the majority of it comes down to total # of calories.

 

[RoyToy]

Even though I said that, don't eat carbs in the morning. Doing so makes it really hard for your body to mobilize fat to use as fuel for the rest of the day. The key in the morning is to eat nothing or something high in protein and fat (bacon and eggs). If you spike your insulin levels(which carbs do) your body can't break down fat tissue because if insulin is elevated, cortisol, which is responsible for breaking down body tissues, can't do its job. There's an inverse relationship there between them. If you eat high protein and no fat you will raise your insulin levels as well. You need the fat to slow the digestion/absorption down.

Tip - Cortisol is at its highest right when you wake up in the morning. If you skip breakfast for the first 2-3 hours, your body will mobilize fat and use it for energy. You can't burn fat unless you mobilize it first.

Understanding how insulin and cortisol works, and how to manipulate them, will do you wonders.

 

[Denny Crane]

You only got a little bit of the science right. People don't eliminate carbs. No more than they eliminate fat on a low fat diet.

It doesn't boil down to calories, unless you do low carb and eat a ridiculous number of calories.

 

[RoyToy]

What science is that?

Also, depends on what you consider a low carb diet. I'm talking about a less than 30 grams a day for an extended period of time.

If you want to lose weight there has to be a caloric deficit.

 

[Denny Crane]

I've been doing less than 30 carbs since July.

I have gone from wearing size 38 to size 34 (down 3 sizes) and the 34s are getting baggy on me.

I am sure I am eating many more calories than I was eating on the low fat/low calorie diet I was on prior. I wasn't losing weight on the low fat diet, even at 1600 calories.

The science is that by restricting carbs, your body gets into a metabolic state called Ketosis. The diet coerces your liver to create high concentration of ketones in the blood and low levels of insulin. The idea of the diet is to starve the liver of glycogen to cause it to create the ketones. While in glycolysis, the body generates high amounts of insulin which converts carbs to body fat. While in ketosis, the fat reserves are burned for energy.

The diet is not just the reduction (not elimination) of carbs, it is the change of your diet from traditional most of your calories from carbs to one that is most of your calories from FAT. You will not lose weight if you do not eat enough fat. This is contrary to the low fat/low calorie diet school of thinking.

My main sources of fat are red meat, nuts, butter, oils, etc. If you go back a few posts, I shared the recipe for "fat bombs" that are 16g of fat and 1 carb (if I remember right) chocolate/peanut butter candies. 16g of fat. Fat bombs. They're a big deal to those dedicated to the diet.

While in ketosis, you don't have to exercise to burn calories, count calories, etc. This kind of diet is often called a "sedentary diet" as you burn fat while doing nothing. Ketosis happens naturally overnight since you aren't eating carbs while you sleep... so you wake up weighing less than when you went to bed.

That said, I have been walking at least 30 miles a week and running maybe another 3-5. My weight loss has been steady, but not as dramatic as some claim. I think it's because I'm adding a lot of muscle at the same time, and muscle is dense (weighs a lot). That my waste has reduced by 3 sizes is a pretty good indication the diet is working incredibly well.

The notion that you somehow stop doing low carb when you hit your target weight is a bad one. Most people I know (from reading keto-diet blogs and message boards, etc.) simply see it as a lifestyle choice and don't miss non-keto friendly foods. I know I don't miss them, and I don't expect to stop eating low carb ever. As I've gradually migrated my kitchen from high carb foods and condiments to low carb ones, I am not suffering for food choices. I've found bread substitutes, pancakes, fax meal muffins, etc., that make me plenty happy. The challenge of creating recipes that are low carb is part of the fun of it all, as well.

I will end up changing the meaning of "low carb" for my meals. When I want to stop losing weight and maintain my target weight, I will gradually increase the number of carbs I eat a day. Right now I'm eating < 30 (it is REALLY hard to eat < 20). I'll probably end up eating as many as 100g per day. Anything less than 150g is considered "low carb" by dieticians/nutritionists.

 

[RoyToy]

I've been doing less than 30 carbs since July.

I have gone from wearing size 38 to size 34 (down 3 sizes) and the 34s are getting baggy on me.

I am sure I am eating many more calories than I was eating on the low fat/low calorie diet I was on prior. I wasn't losing weight on the low fat diet, even at 1600 calories.

The science is that by restricting carbs, your body gets into a metabolic state called Ketosis. The diet coerces your liver to create high concentration of ketones in the blood and low levels of insulin. The idea of the diet is to starve the liver of glycogen to cause it to create the ketones. While in glycolysis, the body generates high amounts of insulin which converts carbs to body fat. While in ketosis, the fat reserves are burned for energy.

The diet is not just the reduction (not elimination) of carbs, it is the change of your diet from traditional most of your calories from carbs to one that is most of your calories from FAT. You will not lose weight if you do not eat enough fat. This is contrary to the low fat/low calorie diet school of thinking.

While in ketosis, you don't have to exercise to burn calories, count calories, etc. This kind of diet is often called a "sedentary diet" as you burn fat while doing nothing. Ketosis happens naturally overnight since you aren't eating carbs while you sleep... so you wake up weighing less than when you went to bed.

That said, I have been walking at least 30 miles a week and running maybe another 3-5. My weight loss has been steady, but not as dramatic as some claim. I think it's because I'm adding a lot of muscle at the same time, and muscle is dense (weighs a lot). That my waste has reduced by 3 sizes is a pretty good indication the diet is working incredibly well.

The notion that you somehow stop doing low carb when you hit your target weight is a bad one. Most people I know (from reading keto-diet blogs and message boards, etc.) simply see it as a lifestyle choice and don't miss non-keto friendly foods. I know I don't miss them, and I don't expect to stop eating low carb ever. As I've gradually migrated my kitchen from high carb foods and condiments to low carb ones, I am not suffering for food choices. I've found bread substitutes, pancakes, fax meal muffins, etc., that make me plenty happy. The challenge of creating recipes that are low carb is part of the fun of it all, as well.

I will end up changing the meaning of "low carb" for my meals. When I want to stop losing weight and maintain my target weight, I will gradually increase the number of carbs I eat a day. Right now I'm eating < 30 (it is REALLY hard to eat < 20). I'll probably end up eating as many as 100g per day. Anything less than 150g is considered "low carb" by dieticians/nutritionists.

Boom. That's one way to create a caloric deficit, and a major reason why you're losing the weight you are.

Were you doing this before?

 

[Denny Crane]

My weight loss:

 

[Denny Crane]

Boom. That's one way to create a caloric deficit, and a major reason why you're losing the weight you are.

Were you doing this before?

Yes, I have walked 30+ miles a week since last november. It did not help me lose weight at 1600 calories and a low fat diet.

Edit: I logged every bit of food I put in my mouth every day during that diet, using myfitnesspal.com.

Unfortunately, MFP isn't geared very well to low carb diet (counting net carbs). A net carb (for me) is grams of carbs minus grams of fiber. For Atkins, you subtract grams of sugar alcohols, too.

 

[RoyToy]

I'm assuming you were ~200 lbs?

That's pretty strange. Sounds like it's just harder for you to lose weight. There are always those unfortunate people.

 

[Denny Crane]

My distance walked (weekly average) for the past year:

The significant change was cutting carbs, not walking more.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm assuming you were ~200 lbs?

That's pretty strange. Sounds like it's just harder for you to lose weight. There are always those unfortunate people.

A shade over 205 at my peak. That was gaining weight on the low fat / low calorie diet.

I would note that I weighted 175 when I quit smoking 2+ years ago.

 

[Denny Crane]

Wikipedia explains the science of ketosis in much greater detail:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

 

[RoyToy]

Well aware of the information in those links

 

[Denny Crane]

Well aware of the information in those links

They do not talk at all about calorie reduction being any part of the fat burning.

FWIW

 

[RoyToy]

Losing weight is different than mobilizing and burning fat

You can lose weight and not lose much fat. You can just be a smaller version of your fatness.

 

[Denny Crane]

Losing weight is different than mobilizing and burning fat

You can lose weight and not lose much fat. You can just be a smaller version of your fatness.

I studied up on this diet before deciding to do it. I'm presenting the science of it here in case it helps someone else choose the diet (or not).

I'm quite sure my belly is much smaller than it was 2-3 months ago. So I am surely burning that fat. Judging from how baggy my clothes become, I'm losing it everywhere. However, you are right that if you eliminate all carbs, you will burn muscle. If you don't eat enough fat, too.

Believe it or not, the hardest thing for me on this diet is to get enough fat and protein. You'd think eating all the meat you want would get you plenty of protein, but my goal is over 100g of protein a day and a whole pound of 70% lean ground beef has only 65g and is really filling for me.

 

[Denny Crane]

So we did go out for our anniversary and I ate 3 slices of deep dish pizza. Overdoing the carbs definitely kicked my weight loss into a higher gear for a bit. I didn't enjoy the food as much as I thought I would, though.

Speaking of enjoying low carb food... You know you want to:

http://lowcarbcoach.com/peanut-butter-fat-bombs/

So I made these and they're really good. They taste mostly like peanut butter, but the cocoa powder is a nice contrast. Next time I think I'll do more sweetener though.