Injury Excuse Propaganda

[Neil O. Shyster]

Logic? How can you expect your team to play at the same level when suffering injuries to key personnel? And by key personnel I'm referring to starters and key bench players. Now, where is the logic in that? How are the warriors doing with their injuries? Should they fire Kerr?

You are comparing apples to oranges. Steph and Klay being out for season is equivalent to Dame and CJ being out for season, not Hood and Collins being out but then adding Melo.

 

[OneSport3]

Logic? How can you expect your team to play at the same level when suffering injuries to key personnel? And by key personnel I'm referring to starters and key bench players. Now, where is the logic in that? How are the warriors doing with their injuries? Should they fire Kerr?

There’s a difference. The Warriors lost 5 of their top 6 players in KD, Steph, Klay,Iggy and Livingston. The Blazers still have their 2 top players and a respectable substitute in Whiteside for Nurkic.

I don’t believe anyone expects them to play to last year’s level with the roster turnover and injuries, but the talent that remains should be performing better than the current record indicates.

 

[Lanny]

There’s a difference. The Warriors lost 5 of their top 6 players in KD, Steph, Klay,Iggy and Livingston. The Blazers still have their 2 top players and a respectable substitute in Whiteside for Nurkic.

I don’t believe anyone expects them to play to last year’s level with the roster turnover and injuries, but the talent that remains should be performing better than the current record indicates.

Durant left the team at the end of last season. Besides the team did not want him back which by now is probably well known.

So, now you're using the logic of injuries do matter. Welcome to the light.

 

[OneSport3]

Durant left the team at the end of last season. Besides the team did not want him back which by now is probably well known.

So, now you're using the logic of injuries do matter. Welcome to the light.

Did you read my post? The Warriors lost their top rotation/contributing players. If you’re going to compare last season’s record to this season’s record, you have to include KD as a player lost. Even if you don’t include KD as a injury/player lost, then they still don’t have Steph or Klay (their top 2 players). Portland still has their top 2 players plus a serviceable substitute for Nurkic in Whiteside.

Not all injuries are equal. It matters WHO gets injured also.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

I love Dame... I think he has ability to win a title with a balanced team around him. I just don’t like him paired with CJ and committing 70% of our salary cap to an undersized backcourt. Pairing Dame with ISO ball CJ is why we are dead last in assists. A full assist per game worse than the Knicks. Unfortunately, Neil will not even entertain the idea of trying something different. His ego is to big and he will go down with the sinking ship before offering CJ in a trade.

ISO ball CJ? How ‘bout Dame? He does ISO as well. Perhaps you are suggesting we should get rid of both?

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

ISO ball CJ? How ‘bout Dame? He does ISO as well. Perhaps you are suggesting we should get rid of both?

I don’t think ISO ball is bad in moderation. Having a star like Dame pick his spots is ok. I think the problem is having 2 such players who play that way really kills the flow of the offense. I like CJ as an individual player, but pairing him with Dame and watching them take turns while everyone else stands around and watches is not fun to me as a fun and I don’t believe will lead to a championship in Dame’s window. There are better ways to use your resources around Dame than 30-35 mil per year on CJ for the next 4 years.

 

[Chris Craig]

Well considering we flipped most the roster, this team already had no on court chemistry... then sprinkle in injuries aaaaaaaand we suck. Shit happens.

A lot of shit

 

[BonesJones]

I don’t think ISO ball is bad in moderation. Having a star like Dame pick his spots is ok. I think the problem is having 2 such players who play that way really kills the flow of the offense. I like CJ as an individual player, but pairing him with Dame and watching them take turns while everyone else stands around and watches is not fun to me as a fun and I don’t believe will lead to a championship in Dame’s window. There are better ways to use your resources around Dame than 30-35 mil per year on CJ for the next 4 years.

I think C.J. would play a better brand of basketball if he was coached too and was put in a system that encouraged him too.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

I think C.J. would play a better brand of basketball if he was coached too and was put in a system that encouraged him too.

Maybe... but at this point I would rather trade CJ while he is still somewhat young and has trade value than wait another couple years under a new coach and then he will be 31 years old with greatly diminished value. We have seen this pairing for over 5 years now... you would think CJ would be more aware of what’s best for team regardless of who is coach... I don’t see him changing.

 

[Strenuus]

There’s a difference. The Warriors lost 5 of their top 6 players in KD, Steph, Klay,Iggy and Livingston. The Blazers still have their 2 top players and a respectable substitute in Whiteside for Nurkic.

I don’t believe anyone expects them to play to last year’s level with the roster turnover and injuries, but the talent that remains should be performing better than the current record indicates.

/thread

Thats a wrap!

 

[Tince]

Insanity??! No logic??! To expect more than 5 games under .500 when your 2 best players making 80 mil per year are healthy??! So if Montrez Harrell and Mo Harkless are out then you should expect Clippers to be 5 games under .500

You think the Clippers roster minus Harrell and Harkless is equal to the Blazers current roster in terms of talent?!?

Edit: How much a player makes doesn't change their skill set. If you think Dame and CJ are overpaid, that's an Olshey issue. Also, they make a combined $57m not $80m if you are worried about being accurate. Detroit should be way better than us because they have two guys making $62m, is that how this game works?

 

[Tince]

There’s a difference. The Warriors lost 5 of their top 6 players in KD, Steph, Klay,Iggy and Livingston. The Blazers still have their 2 top players and a respectable substitute in Whiteside for Nurkic.

I don’t believe anyone expects them to play to last year’s level with the roster turnover and injuries, but the talent that remains should be performing better than the current record indicates.

So you're counting the players the Warriors traded or didn't sign this off-season on top of injuries as players lost?

So that means the Blazers lost: Nurk, Hood, Collins, Curry, Kanter, Meyers, Turner, Harkless, Aminu, Layman, Skal. That's using your logic.

How many available players does GS have in their prime or younger that have been all-stars? 2. How many does Portland have? 1.

 

[Strenuus]

So you're counting the players the Warriors traded or didn't sign this off-season on top of injuries as players lost?

So that means the Blazers lost: Nurk, Hood, Collins, Curry, Kanter, Meyers, Turner, Harkless, Aminu, Layman, Skal. That's using your logic.

How many available players does GS have in their prime or younger that have been all-stars? 2. How many does Portland have? 1.

Draymond sucks without help.

Russell was in the east.

They suck without help.

Its not black and white. Think.

 

[Tince]

Draymond sucks without help.

Russell was in the east.

They suck without help.

Its not black and white. Think.

So this is the no injury excuse thread, but it's acceptable to make excuses for why Golden State's two all-stars aren't getting it done?

To me it's obviously why Golden State isn't getting it done... it's the injuries! But this is the no injury excuse thread so I'm just following the rules.

 

[OneSport3]

So you're counting the players the Warriors traded or didn't sign this off-season on top of injuries as players lost?

So that means the Blazers lost: Nurk, Hood, Collins, Curry, Kanter, Meyers, Turner, Harkless, Aminu, Layman, Skal. That's using your logic.

How many available players does GS have in their prime or younger that have been all-stars? 2. How many does Portland have? 1.

You are really stretching it if you want to discount the loss of Steph and Klay to fit your narrative. The comparison would be valid if we lost Dame and CJ to injury.

The Warriors are a totally different team. The only player that played any meaningful minutes for them from last season is Draymond Green. That’s it. KD, Steph, Klay, Iggy, Livingston, Looney, Cook, Bell all injured or gone. Try to compare the level of players that they lost and see what you get.

Relative to Portland, the Warriors are actually overperforming being only 5 games behind with their roster.

 

[Tince]

You are really stretching it if you want to discount the loss of Steph and Klay to fit your narrative. The comparison would be valid if we lost Dame and CJ to injury.

The Warriors are a totally different team. The only player that played any meaningful minutes for them from last season is Draymond Green. That’s it. KD, Steph, Klay, Iggy, Livingston, Looney, Cook, Bell all injured or gone. Try to compare the level of players that they lost and see what you get.

Relative to Portland, the Warriors are actually overperforming being only 5 games behind with their roster.

The comparison between what Golden St lost since last year and what Portland lost is horrible comparison in the first place, that's my entire point. Golden State's starting point was 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, 5-6 all-star players. Portland's starting point was 1 all-star player.

I'm not discounting the loss of Steph and Klay, I'm just simply applying the logic people are using to discount the Blazers. I think the logic is crap for both teams.

 

[OneSport3]

The comparison between what Golden St lost since last year and what Portland lost is horrible comparison in the first place, that's my entire point. Golden State's starting point was 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, 5-6 all-star players. Portland's starting point was 1 all-star player.

Exactly, it wasn’t me that made that comparison. I was countering that poster’s point

 

[Propagandist]

Can we change the title of this thread to: Injury Excuse, Propagandist? And then I can be in charge of the injury excuses.

Here is my first excuse:

All these injuries are why we have less players available to play games.

 

[Tince]

Exactly, it wasn’t me that made that comparison. I was countering that poster’s point

I'm glad we agree on this... The reason GS/Kerr gets brought up is because SOME people on here say things like "Stotts has an all-star therefore we should have a better record." That logic is FAR too simplistic and the GS/Kerr situation does prove that point, you would agree, right?

 

[Tince]

Also, since this is/was the no injury excuse thread, I think this is a safe place to discuss how Stotts totally dominated Doc Rivers and the LA Clippers in the 2016 playoffs despite the team being picked to be 25-57 and the Clippers being predicted to finish with a 57-25.

Remember, injuries are just excuses!

 

[OneSport3]

Yes, that logic is far too simplistic. But if the thesis of your comparison is to highlight GSW or Kerr’s performance from last to this season, then you must account for the entire roster turnover, in addition to current injuries for a valid assessment.

Pretty much the only player that played any meaningful minutes for them from last season is Draymond Green. They are probably the only team that had a more drastic roster overhaul than the Blazers.

 

[Tince]

Yes, that logic is far too simplistic. But if the thesis of your comparison is to highlight GSW or Kerr’s performance from last to this season, then you must account for the entire roster turnover, in addition to current injuries for a valid assessment.

Pretty much the only player that played any meaningful minutes for them from last season is Draymond Green. They are probably the only team that had a more drastic roster overhaul than the Blazers.

100% agree. And if the Warriors and Blazers are the two teams with the greatest roster overhaul, (you're factoring in injuries), then it should be no surprise that neither team is having success.

 

[OneSport3]

Also, since this is/was the no injury excuse thread, I think this is a safe place to discuss how Stotts totally dominated Doc Rivers and the LA Clippers in the 2016 playoffs despite the team being picked to be 25-57 and the Clippers being predicted to finish with a 57-25.

Remember, injuries are just excuses!

But as I said before, not all injuries are equal. The Clippers lost both Blake Griffin and Chris Paul to injury in that series. The Clippers were actually the ones dominating the first 2 games at home. They lost both Griffin and Paul to injury in Game 4. It was a wrap after that.

In a player dominated league like the NBA, it’s pretty much impossible to overcome when you lose your 2 best players.

 

[Tince]

But as I said before, not all injuries are equal. The Clippers lost both Blake Griffin and Chris Paul to injury in that series. The Clippers were actually the ones dominating the first 2 games at home. They lost both Griffin and Paul to injury in Game 4. It was a wrap after that.

In a player dominated league like the NBA, it’s pretty much impossible to overcome when you lose your 2 best players.

I agree, injuries are a legit excuse/reason.

Can you think of a team who has lost 3 out of their 5 starters basically for the year and had stretches where they only had 1 big guy available who had success over an entire season? Maybe it's happened, but I'm guessing that team had an MVP on it or something, because it would take a lot.

 

[OneSport3]

I agree, injuries are a legit excuse/reason.

Can you think of a team who has lost 3 out of their 5 starters basically for the year and had stretches where they only had 1 big guy available who had success over an entire season? Maybe it's happened, but I'm guessing that team had an MVP on it or something, because it would take a lot.

This is where I tend to disagree with you and was my point from before. Although the Blazers lost 3 starters, they still have their 2 best players with some serviceable replacements in Whiteside, Melo and Hood (until he got injured). With the roster turnover and injuries, I don’t expect them to perform to last year’s level, but I feel that they are definitely underperforming with their 14-19 record.

 

[WillG]

We still have three top level starters in Dame, Cj and Whiteside, which is more than can be said for a lot of our opponents - yet look at our record.

Stotts coaching and brand of basketball, along with the supposed leadership of Dame/Stotts is absolutely putrid.
Can't wait for this team to be blown up and a new post Dame/Stotts era to begin.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Paging Third Billy Goat Gruff...

 

[bobf]

Injuries + Talent loss = Bad record. We’re right about where we should be on paper. We lost about 10 wins to injury and 9 wins to offseason. Here we are.

 

[stampedehero]

I have been reading this forum for a while now and finally felt like I needed to post. I am just sick of this false injury excuse that is being pushed by all the local media. Injuries are part of the game. When your 2 best players are still healthy getting paid 80 mil per year and you are 5 games below .500 close to mid season this is a pathetic excuse to eliminate accountability and for Neil to keep the status quo.

1) Nurk injury was baked into cake. Blazers made western conference finals without Nurk, and actually replaced him with arguably a better player in Whiteside. So going from no Nurk, to adding Whiteside is actually a big upgrade. And the team was talking title knowing Nurk would be out this season.

2) Zach Collins was averaging 9 points and 4 rebounds before injury this year. If Collins doesn’t get injured, Carmelo probably doesn’t sign with Blazers. Carmelo’s inside game and scoring arguably provided a bigger impact than what Zach was giving.

3) Blazers had a below .500 record with Rodney Hood.

4) Teams with injury’s to better players have beaten the Blazers. Losing to Warriors with Steph, Klay... Kings without Fox, Bagley... Cavs without Love... I could go on. So they are making excuse for losing 4th or 5th best player while losing to teams missing 1st or 2nd beat player.

This team caught lightning in a bottle last year. Being dead last in NBA in passing and assist is not a recipe for success, yet Neil doubles down. This ISO ball style is the true culprit and until CJ is traded I just can’t see anything changing.

>My take: 1)Kanter replacement, not Whiteside. At first Whiteside sucked but he did acclimate himself to the center position. 2)ZC leading to a CA signing could have been opportunity not due to ZC injured for eternity. 3)RH is not the reason for a sub .500 record. 4) Pin all that on Stotts for forgetting how to coach. CJ should have limiting minutes with others equaling his offensive output and exceling beyond CJ's defensive skills.

 

[stampedehero]

I agree this forum is filled with commies but you get used to it after a while.