Trade Irving to Boston for IT and a bunch more

[Rastapopoulos]

I guess that's the only scenario in which Lillard would be on the market. People keep saying Cleveland had no leverage, but he was signed for two more years. They didn't have to make a bad deal quickly, or anything.

...so they made a good deal quickly.

 

[Minstrel]

...so they made a good deal quickly.

Yes, I wasn't saying they made a bad deal. I was saying that people saying that Cleveland had no leverage (I've seen this on Twitter a lot) and therefore it's crazy Boston had to give up real value are off-base. Cleveland had plenty of leverage--they didn't have to make a deal and plenty of teams were interested in him.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Marcus Morris is not a PF. Certainly not on D. They really have cratered their defense.

I'll guarantee you that's the position he's going to play (and defend) on their squad though, regardless of whether or not his game matches the traditional 4.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Yes, I wasn't saying they made a bad deal. I was saying that people saying that Cleveland had no leverage (I've seen this on Twitter a lot) and therefore it's crazy Boston had to give up real value are off-base. Cleveland had plenty of leverage--they didn't have to make a deal and plenty of teams were interested in him.

This I find a bit hard to believe. PG is the most overstocked position these days and Kyrie's awesome offense doesn't really make up for his abysmal defense.

Of course, I also find it hard to believe that the Cavs bothered to call Golden State. A Curry/Irving backcourt would make Lillard/McCollum look like Jordan/Pippen on D.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'll guarantee you that's the position he's going to play (and defend) on their squad though, regardless of whether or not his game matches the traditional 4.

Yes, but only because they no longer have a better PF. Like Amir Johnson.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Another reason I don't like this trade for Boston: Kyrie's a ball-stopper who wanted an even BIGGER role in the offense and that doesn't seem a good fit with Brad Stephens' system.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yes, but only because they no longer have a better PF. Like Amir Johnson.

Yeah. I know. That was kind of part of the point of the chart. Just like plugging Jaylen Brown into the SG section even though he's not a 2 by any stretch. They've consolidated talent in the 1/3 positions, but I would argue that they're not better overall, their positional imbalance being a major part of that.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Nice haul for Cleveland. They got a really good pick, they got two guys that can help immediately, but they also dealt Kyrie to most likely their main rival in the east. Not sure if that was a good move.

I agree with Denny that I think Kyrie is extremely overrated, but I guess we'll see if he can lead now. Kyrie/Hayward/Horford is a pretty good trio. Sprinkle in Tatum and Brown and you have a pretty solid lineup. Kyrie might be overrated, but I like him better than Thomas.

i read somewhere they also saved like 30MM in lux tax next year with this deal. 30 fucking million dollars...boston should have been able to keep the pick.

 

[Denny Crane]

Thomas didn't step up in the playoffs, while Irving did. That's likely the attraction that made him worth all that Boston gave up.

Plus Irving has physical size that's reasonable for a PG, while Thomas is puny (but effective!). Irving has the build to play better D, if he tries.

On paper, the regular season Thomas put up superior numbers vs. Irving. He was good enough as a starting PG for the Celtics to have the best record in the East, such as it was (53 wins, meh).

Crowder gave the Celtics depth that they'll seriously miss. Hayward made him somewhat expendable, but I wouldn't have just given him away considering the modest (potentially) improvement at PG, loss of depth, and loss of a really good draft pick.

 

[tester551]

Thomas didn't step up in the playoffs, while Irving did. That's likely the attraction that made him worth all that Boston gave up.

Didn't Thomas have a fairly significant family issue occur during the playoffs? I don't blame him at all.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Blockbuster

Irving to Celtics

Cavs get Isaiah Thomas, Crowder, one other plus Brooklyn's pick 2018

You started this thread at 11:15pm, many hours after it was announced. Didnt think maybe it was already being discussed in other threads?

Merge alert!

 

[Boob-No-More]

My quick/dirty evaluation of the Celtics' offseason roster turnover.

View attachment 15796
(If I switch Smart and Brown in the 2018 chart, it looks even worse, IMO)

Disagreements? Basically looks to me like they've upgraded their starting lineup, but their bench quality appears to have taken a pretty significant hit, especially in the frontcourt. Unless Tatum/Ojeleye are both quality players from day 1, they're going to be extremely reliant on Hayward.

BOS was one of the worst rebounding teams in the league last season, and by far the worst rebounding team to make the playoffs. It really was their biggest weakness last year.

Which makes it surprising the would include Zizic in this trade. They now only have two players on their roster taller than 6'9" - Al Horford and Aron Baynes, both 6'10" and both also 31 years old.

None of Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk, Tyler Zeller, Jonas Jerebco or Jordan Mickey were great rebounders, but they were all SIGNIFICANTLY better than Marcus Morris. Hell, even Avery Bradley and Jae Crowder are better rebounders than Marcus Morris, and like the other five they are also gone.

Right now, BOS looks to have, by a wide margin, the worst rebounding starting front court in the history of the NBA with Al Horford (TRB% = 11.8) and Marcus Morris (TRB% = 7.8). Just to put that into proper perspective that Blazers fans can relate to: Meyers Leonard career TRB% = 13.0.

They could, I suppose, move Horford to starting PF and start Baynes at C, but that leaves them with no rebounding off the bench and forces them to play 6'9" rookie Daniel Theis at back up center. In his one year of college ball, Jayson Tatum was a good rebounder, for a SF, but Kyrie is nearly as bad (TRB = 5.0) on the glass as Isaiah Thomas (TRB% = 4.4). Hayward and Smart are average, at best, rebounders for their positions. So, they won't be getting much help on the glass from anyone else.

At first glance, it appears that Danny Ainge gave up on winning now, realizing he can't get past the Cavs, and certainly not the Warriors. So, he's decided to start building for the future around Jalen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Kyrie Irving. If that's the plan, why throw all that money at Gordon Hayward and why include the BRK pick in this trade? More importantly, who are their C and PF of the future?

I know Ainge landed the best player in this trade, but he has given up so much in terms of defense, depth and size this summer that right now, the Boston Celtics look like a rich man's version of the Brooklyn Nets. Their complete lack of size will kill them, especially in the post season. While replacing one all star with two looks good on paper, BOS is a weaker team heading into this season than they were last. They still have more than enough talent to make the playoffs in the historically weak Eastern Conference, but they won't be the No. 1 seed and don't pose any kind of threat to the top teams in the East, let alone the West.

BNM

 

[Denny Crane]

Didn't Thomas have a fairly significant family issue occur during the playoffs? I don't blame him at all.

I don't either, but it did matter to the Celtics. He was their key player; they needed him to step up. The Celtics felt it worth giving him up and another starting caliber player and the pick for a guy who only bested him in playoff stats.

It's not the first time a guy underperformed and got traded.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

You started this thread at 11:15pm, many hours after it was announced. Didnt think maybe it was already being discussed in other threads?

Merge alert!

Perhaps he thought it was significant enough an event to be worthy of its own thread (a sentiment with which I agree wholeheartedly).

 

[Boob-No-More]

Didn't Thomas have a fairly significant family issue occur during the playoffs? I don't blame him at all.

Dead sister. Yeah, that sucks.

BNM

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Perhaps he thought it was significant enough an event to be worthy of its own thread (a sentiment with which I agree wholeheartedly).

I agree. But not 5+ hours after the trade has already been announced and discussed a ton in other threads.

 

[dviss1]

This I find a bit hard to believe. PG is the most overstocked position these days and Kyrie's awesome offense doesn't really make up for his abysmal defense.

Of course, I also find it hard to believe that the Cavs bothered to call Golden State. A Curry/Irving backcourt would make Lillard/McCollum look like Jordan/Pippen on D.

GTFO... I love Lillard. Ultimate man crush on the kid. Yeah, I might need to see someone about it.

But even while being a Dame fan boy, hold up a sec (fapfapfapfapfapfapfap OOOOwwwwoooogaaaaaa. Just had to rub one out there..)

I know Curry (while being only ok at D) is a better defender than Lillard so....

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I know Ainge landed the best player in this trade, but he has given up so much in terms of defense, depth and size this summer that right now, the Boston Celtics look like a rich man's version of the Brooklyn Nets. Their complete lack of size will kill them, especially in the post season. While replacing one all star with two looks good on paper, BOS is a weaker team heading into this season than they were last. They still have more than enough talent to make the playoffs in the historically weak Eastern Conference, but they won't be the No. 1 seed and don't pose any kind of threat to the top teams in the East, let alone the West.

BNM

Hmm...they have a lack of size, and we (allegedly) have a surplus. They're still overstocked at the wing, and we're a little thin. Could a match be made?

 

[Minstrel]

This I find a bit hard to believe. PG is the most overstocked position these days and Kyrie's awesome offense doesn't really make up for his abysmal defense.

The reports were that at least 20 teams were calling Cleveland about him. Not that all of them would have made great offers, but I think the interest level was there.

 

[e_blazer]

Hmm...they have a lack of size, and we (allegedly) have a surplus. They're still overstocked at the wing, and we're a little thin. Could a match be made?

Meyers Leonard would look great in green.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Meyers Leonard would look great in green.

Sure would, but I was thinking more realistically, along the lines of something like this:



One of those deals where both teams say no, though, I think.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I agree. But not 5+ hours after the trade has already been announced and discussed a ton in other threads.

Mod failure. All those other posts should have been moved into their own thread. In fact, they probably still should be. #NotMyAdministrator

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure would, but I was thinking more realistically, along the lines of something like this:

View attachment 15798

One of those deals where both teams say no, though, I think.

I don't want anything to do with either Morris twin.

They're both scumballs.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Hmm...they have a lack of size, and we (allegedly) have a surplus. They're still overstocked at the wing, and we're a little thin. Could a match be made?

They could definitely use Ed Davis, and maybe even Meyers Leonard:



Meyers had his best game of the season, by far, against BOS back in January.

But, what does BOS have left that we would want that Ainge would be willing to part with? Ainge has clearly, finally bought into the youth movement. So, he's not going to give us anyone under 24 for Davis or Leonard. Even if he could, with no one other than Horford, Hayward or Irving are making more than $5.7 million. So, it would be hard to make the salaries work.

Noah Vonleh would be a good get for them. The age is right, he's already shown he's an above average rebounder (their biggest need) and defender at the NBA level, but what would they be willing to give up to get him?

BNM

 

[dviss1]

Hmm...they have a lack of size, and we (allegedly) have a surplus. They're still overstocked at the wing, and we're a little thin. Could a match be made?

They might be looking for a poor man's Olynyk.

 

[chzbrgr]

They could definitely use Ed Davis, and maybe even Meyers Leonard:



Meyers had his best game of the season, by far, against BOS back in January.

But, what does BOS have left that we would want that Ainge would be willing to part with? Ainge has clearly, finally bought into the youth movement. So, he's not going to give us anyone under 24 for Davis or Leonard. Even if he could, with no one other than Horford, Hayward or Irving are making more than $5.7 million. So, it would be hard to make the salaries work.

Noah Vonleh would be a good get for them. The age is right, he's already shown he's an above average rebounder (their biggest need) and defender at the NBA level, but what would they be willing to give up to get him?

BNM

I hate his face

 

[Minstrel]

Mod failure. All those other posts should have been moved into their own thread. In fact, they probably still should be. #NotMyAdministrator

Trying to overthrow a legally selected moderator team is treason. Or, at least, a gray area.

 

[calvin natt]

Yeah.. No...

Kyrie averages 51 games per season:
View attachment 15794

IT averages 63 games per season:
View attachment 15795

381/6 = 64?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Trying to overthrow a legally selected moderator team is treason. Or, at least, a gray area.

Just exercising my freedom of speech and right to protest. Why do you hate the constitution, fascist?