Is Dame the modern version of Stephon Marbury?

[blue9]

I've never understood this "makes other players better" concept. How do we know if a player makes another player better? If a player gets better, how do we know if it was because of his teammates or the coaching, and which player(s) made him better? If players come here and play better than they did before, does that mean that Dame made them better? If they leave and don't play as well, does that also mean Dame made them better?

Seems like the kind of thing that people only say to support preconceived notions rather than actually having any legitimate value.

Sometimes it's subtle and difficult to tell, but other times it's not so subtle. Think Nash/Amare or Nash/Marion. Think LBJ/Delonte...or LBJ/anyone! There are clearly players that make those around them better. But they are rare players, and I don't think an argument can be made that Dame clearly makes his teammates better. Impeccable court vision is almost a requirement to be considered a player that makes their teammates better, and Dame's court vision is fairly average.

 

[Minstrel]

You're confusing intensity on a forum for real emotional intensity.

When I say "emotional intensity," I don't mean that the person is crying in real life. I mean that they're using combative rhetoric more appropriate for defending themselves from personal attacks. It seems out of place for what's should be a more analytical discussion.

 

[BonesJones]

When I say "emotional intensity," I don't mean that the person is crying in real life. I mean that they're using combative rhetoric more appropriate for defending themselves from personal attacks. It seems out of place for what's should be a more analytical discussion.

Which I've tried to do.

 

[Nikolokolus]

People like efficiency stats, but if a player is injured or doesn't play, his effect on the team is diminished so there is an argument for taking missed games into consideration:

First 3 seasons
Curry:
1042 assists
3155 points

Dame:
1495 assists
4977 points

82 games per season x 3 seasons = 246 games
Curry:
4.2 assists/possible game
12.8 points/possible game

Dame:
6.1 assists/possible game
20.2 points/possible game

Curry had a LOT of games with ZERO points and ZERO assists, because he was injured a LOT.

My point isn't that Dame is better than Curry, he isn't. My point is that by taking certain stats too seriously, you can come to bizarre conclusions.

The OP was being disingenuous, because he was intentionally using stats to SUGGEST similarities between Dame and a player with low character. The natural implication is that Dame has low character, or is a "flash in the pan." The whole idea is preposterous, which is why I totally agree with Bones, who is obviously correct.

If I wanted to, I could counter with stats that suggest that Dame is one of the best players of all time. These stats have come up from time to time. They, too, don't tell the whole story, though.

Why is it disingenuous to make a statistical comparison with a player who was similar (All-Star scoring point guard, net minus defender)? We're discussing on-court stuff here, not attitude.

I think most teams would have been (mostly) happy to have a sane Arenas or Starbury in their prime, but it does raise the question of whether or not you can build a championship team around a player like that, when they are your best player.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Why is it disingenuous to make a statistical comparison with a player who was similar (All-Star scoring point guard, net minus defender)? We're discussing on-court stuff here, not attitude.

I think most teams would have been (mostly) happy to have a sane Arenas or Starbury in their prime, but it does raise the question of whether or not you can build a championship team around a player like that, when they are your best player.

The obvious implication is attitude, not just stats.

If you compare him to a player that won multiple championships, you are a homer.
If you compare him to a player that never made it to the championship game, you are a hater.
If you compare him to multiple types of players, you have the basis for an intelligent conversation. This Isn't.

 

[Blazinaway]

if you leave the discussion its a win/win!

 

[BonesJones]

Who's deleting comments?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Who's deleting comments?

Has to be a mod

 

[Minstrel]

I deleted about a hundred pointless back-and-forths that amounted to "You're stupider than me." I figured it was obvious why they got deleted.

Can we try staying on topic?

 

[BonesJones]

I deleted about a hundred pointless back-and-forths that amounted to "You're stupider than me." I figured it was obvious why they got deleted.

Can we try staying on topic?

You might as well delete the whole thread.

 

[Blazinaway]

You might as well delete the whole thread.

+1

 

[Minstrel]

You might as well delete the whole thread.

Nah, there are a lot of posts in this thread that are actually attempting discussion.

 

[BonesJones]

Nah, there are a lot of posts in this thread that are actually attempting discussion.

Well my discussion and view on the OP is what led to all that so... It could happen again lol

 

[OneLifeToLive]

All I can say is I'm glad I didn't post what I wanted to post last night in the other thread about Dame. He's a good baller and player and I will leave it at that.

Yikes.

 

[noknobs]

No way that's correct. Jordan would have punched Leonard until he pulled his head out of his ass. Bird and Magic would have demanded it. Dame doesn't do that. Not a complaint

How in your passive-aggressive mind can you claim that's not a complaint?

But that's besides the point - I'm wondering how you can state as fact that Dame never demands more of his teammates, even behind the scenes? Let me guess, you have 3rd hand knowledge again?

You do realize that there are other ways to lead and make your teammates better besides punching them or yelling at them in public during timeouts, right?

 

[Minstrel]

All I can say is I'm glad I didn't post what I wanted to post last night in the other thread about Dame. He's a good baller and player and I will leave it at that.

Yikes.

Were you going to compare him to Fat Lever? You were going to compare him to Fat Lever, weren't you?

 

[Shaboid]

How about these comparisons?

http://bkref.com/tiny/tY3yY

 

[BonesJones]

How about these comparisons?

http://bkref.com/tiny/tY3yY

Dame's stats do compare well to a prime Gilbert Arenas.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Who's deleting comments?

I'm not triggered. Thanks for your concerns though. We all can't be as smart as you man. You obviously know everything about everything. So explain it to us simpletons.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Dame's stats do compare well to a prime Gilbert Arenas.

Wait.... what? Now you are agreeing? Wow that was quick.

 

[Shaboid]

Dame's stats do compare well to a prime Gilbert Arenas.

I agree. What about Francis?

 

[Mediocre Man]

How in your passive-aggressive mind can you claim that's not a complaint?

But that's besides the point - I'm wondering how you can state as fact that Dame never demands more of his teammates, even behind the scenes? Let me guess, you have 3rd hand knowledge again?

You do realize that there are other ways to lead and make your teammates better besides punching them or yelling at them in public during timeouts, right?

My opinion. He doesn't make his teammates better....or as much as a truly great player would. You and others differ. Let's hope one of us is right and we win a title in the next 10 years, with or without him

 

[BonesJones]

Wait.... what? Now you are agreeing? Wow that was quick.

Yeah, because you didn't provide context, I figured it was a subtle, negative comparison like the OP, because of this thread and because everybody's been taking shots at him.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yeah, because you didn't provide context, I figured it was a subtle, negative comparison like the OP, because of this thread and because everybody's been taking shots at him.

So absent context, you simply assumed ill intent rather than clarify.

Jumping to conclusions is not a good look.

 

[BonesJones]

So absent context, you simply assumed ill intent rather than clarify.

Jumping to conclusions is not a good look.

Sorry, but with all the Dame-bashing going on lately, combined with the outlandish comparison of Lillard to Marbury, you can't blame me for thinking there was ill intent.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Marbury was a good player though. He was just a weirdo. He has had an amazing career in the CBA on his own terms.

I think Arenas is the better comparison just in terms of gameplay though.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sorry, but with all the Dame-bashing going on lately, combined with the outlandish comparison of Lillard to Marbury, you can't blame me for thinking there was ill intent.

Outlandish how? Ill intent? I didn't insult his mother.

You need to calm down son.

 

[Haakzilla]

...just going to leave this here!

"I don't impersonate anybody, man," Lillard replied to the question, clearly annoyed. "I was being Damian Lillard."

 

[dviss1]

Damian Lillard can actually put a sentence together so no...

 

[Minstrel]

One thing I will say is that Lillard will never make a commercial this good (perhaps because he doesn't have a teammate as good as Garnett?):