Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged)

[chris_in_pdx]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Z-Bo was affecting the lockerroom. He was alienating fans. He was a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Blazers in the early 2000s. His presence was driving fans AWAY from the Rose Garden. I don't care if Z-Bo was putting up HOF numbers, he had to go at any cost. And did. And it was the right decision.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

This thread is repeating the same issues I already answered. To those who say that Zach isn't the same player now as then (some say on, some say off the court)--that's the point. We should have kept him the way we did Webster and Outlaw, waiting for him to improve. Or are you saying that he wouldn't have improved because he got better coaching with his new teams than he would have by staying here with McMillan?

As for the Knicks and Clippers not getting much for him in trades, despite his being no problem there (on or off the court)--that's the point. Those teams were stupid to let the Oregonian affect their thinking. Judge him by the present, not by some hater newspaper from years ago.

As for Aldridge being his equal--not till very recently, and it won't last. After many years, this year Aldridge has peeked out of his shell, but that is unreliable. Aldridge returns to the shadows when another player plays well, and he jumps into the bushes in clutch time, when Zach is the Man. Zach is a leader and Aldridge is a follower.

Look at Zach's teammates. Replace him with Aldridge. Would Memphis still be our equal as they are now? Of course not. Therefore, there's no way Aldridge is as effective as Zach.

 

[mgb]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

This thread is repeating the same issues I already answered. To those who say that Zach isn't the same player now as then (some say on, some say off the court)--that's the point. We should have kept him the way we did Webster and Outlaw, waiting for him to improve. Or are you saying that he wouldn't have improved because he got better coaching with his new teams than he would have by staying here with McMillan?

As for the Knicks and Clippers not getting much for him in trades, despite his being no problem there (on or off the court)--that's the point. Those teams were stupid to let the Oregonian affect their thinking. Judge him by the present, not by some hater newspaper from years ago.

As for Aldridge being his equal--not till very recently, and it won't last. After many years, this year Aldridge has peeked out of his shell, but that is unreliable. Aldridge returns to the shadows when another player plays well, and he jumps into the bushes in clutch time, when Zach is the Man. Zach is a leader and Aldridge is a follower.

Look at Zach's teammates. Replace him with Aldridge. Would Memphis still be our equal as they are now? Of course not. Therefore, there's no way Aldridge is as effective as Zach.

I don't know if that's true. Don't get me wrong I would have liked us to have kept Zach, but Aldridge is a more rounded player when you included D. Plus he has shown when he needs to be the guy he can be.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

We should have kept him the way we did Webster and Outlaw, waiting for him to improve.

Webster and Outlaw weren't getting involved with the police every other week. Webster and Outlaw weren't causing seats to go unsold in the Rose Garden. Your argument is flawed. The Blazers made a business decision to get rid of a locker room and fanbase cancer while cultivating a youth movement that the management was building, and didn't want Randolph to influence negatively.

The fact that Z-Bo is flourishing in his THIRD team (the first two jettisoning him in similar fashion to the Blazers) isn't surprising. Memphis has a good young athletic core, and Zach has probably grown up a hell of a lot since his "Hoop Family" strip club and hooker days in Portland. Good for him. Hope he keeps it up. The Blazers are just fine without him, and sure as hell wouldn't be better off with him right now.

 

[Tince]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

We also got Rudy out of the deal eventually didn't we?

I though wasn't one for trading him at the time.

I believe the Knicks trade generated a trade exception which landed us James Jones and Rudy Fernandez for nothing.

So we dumped Zach's contract for Frye, Rudy, and James Jones.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

I don't know if that's true. Don't get me wrong I would have liked us to have kept Zach, but Aldridge is a more rounded player when you included D.

Could be, but...

Plus he has shown when he needs to be the guy he can be.

In Memphis, Aldridge would have to be the Man every single game and every single clutch time, as Zach very consistently is. I've checked Zach's stats after every game for months, and he's amazingly consistent. Reliability is not Aldridge's strong suit. He comes and goes. In the second half and especially later in the game, he goes. In contrast, you can count on Zach to lead at that juncture.

If Aldridge replaced Zach, Memphis would suck. Aldridge has more head, but Zach has more heart.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Webster and Outlaw weren't getting involved with the police every other week. Webster and Outlaw weren't causing seats to go unsold in the Rose Garden. Your argument is flawed. The Blazers made a business decision to get rid of a locker room and fanbase cancer

This is just not true. You and Canzano are good at exaggerration. This is why lesser teams catch up to us, like Memphis. They know this hater nonsense just kills a team.

The fact that Z-Bo is flourishing in his THIRD team (the first two jettisoning him in similar fashion to the Blazers) isn't surprising.

He did just fine with the two teams but they traded him for no reason. So I hypothesize that they were stupidly affected by the Oregonian reputation.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

So we dumped Zach's contract and paid $30 million for Frye, Rudy, and James Jones.

Fixed. Even if you don't include that, Rudy is not an all-star like Zach. Zach carries a team with as many wins as the Blazers. Rudy never will.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Fixed. Even if you don't include that, Rudy is not an all-star like Zach. Zach carries a team with as many wins as the Blazers. Rudy never will.

Fine. So since you have such a hard-on for the Griz and Z-Bo and hate what the Blazers have become without your precious PF, the Memphis Message board is thataway. Have fun. Take KingSpeed with you.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Waaaaaahh!

I lost the argument!

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Don't understand why people think the Blazers should have gotten more for the worst contract in the NBA. Not an easy thing to trade, especially when the player isn't even close to being a franchise player. Still, the value the Blazers got for ZBo is consistent with what the Knicks and Clippers got for him, which is nothing. .

That is a reflection on the Knicks and Clippers. They are awful, AWFUL at trades. On that note, we gave up Drexler for Otis Thorpe.

so it took 2 teams, and almost 4 years later for you to pull a "I told you so". Props to you.

Zach Randolph has been consistently good the last four years. He just hasn't had good teammates. No one can win by himself. Kobe couldn't make the playoffs in 2005 and he had Odom and Butler! Everyone needs help.

I think it is foolish to declare ZBo's maturity in a contract year. If he keeps it up when he has a proper guaranteed contract - I would be willing to admit that he is growing up.

Zach Randolph was an All Star last year and it was not a contract

It's been five years since he's been here. It's really not important.

Zach Randolph was still playing for the Blazers four years ago.

Anyway, my point ALL ALONG has been that Randolph is a great player. The closest we've gotten to a series win was with him as a starter for us. We were down 0-3 against the Mavs in 2003. We started him and we went 3-1 the rest of the way with him leading us in scoring and rebounding. Since then, he has had crappy teammates and no one can win by himself. What disgusts me is the argument that "you can't win with Randolph." That has ALWAYS been wrong and is just being proven again now as the Grizzlies are like a half game behind us.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Z-Bo was affecting the lockerroom. He was alienating fans. He was a symbol of everything that was wrong with the Blazers in the early 2000s. His presence was driving fans AWAY from the Rose Garden. I don't care if Z-Bo was putting up HOF numbers, he had to go at any cost. And did. And it was the right decision.

That's not true. Zach aside from hitting Ruber Patterson, what did he do wrong? I don't recall him being arrested other than the DUI with the Clips, and I never saw any animosity in the locker room. The Oregonian was still in their smear campaign and Zach was the target of choice at that time because Sheed and Damon were gone. He wasn't driving away fans... they were leaving in droves because the team was terrible. Those fans had no problem supporting JR Rider, Damon, and Ruben when we were winning. That was a lame excuse to turn their back on the team. I didn't see any of them returning until the team started winning again.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Fine. So since you have such a hard-on for the Griz and Z-Bo and hate what the Blazers have become without your precious PF, the Memphis Message board is thataway. Have fun. Take KingSpeed with you.

I'm a Blazers fan but I respect Zach Randolph's game and it was annoying hearing people ignore 2003 and say that no team with Zach will ever make the playoffs. Those people were wrong and he has proven it this year. He also won the Community Assist Award a couple months ago so he's not such a bad guy either. I met Zach once. He was extremely nice to me. Smiling, generous, and sweet. Very glad for him that he's winning now.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

That's not true. Zach aside from hitting Ruber Patterson, what did he do wrong? I don't recall him being arrested other than the DUI with the Clips, and I never saw any animosity in the locker room. The Oregonian was still in their smear campaign and Zach was the target of choice at that time because Sheed and Damon were gone. He wasn't driving away fans... they were leaving in droves because the team was terrible. Those fans had no problem supporting JR Rider, Damon, and Ruben when we were winning. That was a lame excuse to turn their back on the team. I didn't see any of them returning until the team started winning again.

Nothing like a good Zach Randolph thread to get this place jumping again, eh? Just like old times.

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Hmm, interesting. I'm often an ally of Chris on political matters and against Nate, but I'm an ally of Nate on the Zach matter and against Chris.

A triangle offense. I just have to pick my issues selectively.

This proves that everyone loves me, as long as I know when to shut my mouth. But I already knew that.

 

[barfo]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Nothing like a good Zach Randolph thread to get this place jumping again, eh? Just like old times.

Sheed thread coming soon? Hold on to your shorts!

barfo

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Sheed thread coming soon? Hold on to your shorts!

barfo

Sheed was never the problem. Trading him was mistake. What we should've done is trade everyone else. I'm sure we could've found ways to get Ben Wallace, Prince, Billups, and Hamilton and then WE could've been the team winning the title.

 

[barfo]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Sheed was never the problem. Trading him was mistake.

Agree 10000000000000000000000000000000%

barfo

 

[jlprk]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Sheed thread coming soon? Hold on to your shorts!

Come summertime, mods should start the Sergio thread in June, the Juwan Howard thread in July, the Viktor Khryapa thread in August, and the Juan Dixon thread in September.

I'm up for it! All of those would be better than about 4 guys on our roster!

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

3 teams actually (Knicks Clips & Griz).

Portland didn't trade Zach because of his game, it was the continual off court issues. Combined with his huge contract he was not exactly a hot property for a PR driven business like the NBA, so Portland's return for him was understandable. I think it bears noting that Channing Frye has had a couple good years in PHX now though...

Anyhoo... his name has stayed off of the tabloid side of the papers for a while now, good for him. I do wonder though if thats at least partially due to playing in Memphis rather then gossip obsessed/nitpicking Portland. Hopefully he really has matured and is doing right off the court as well as on. I especially hope he's no longer driving while intoxicated

STOMP

He's still under investigation for his role in a federal drug trafficking case, so far as I know. That's less than a year old, and may be one reason Memphis hasn't given him a contract extension.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/27/zach-randolph-drug-invest_n_591705.html

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

I've noticed Randolph dunks now. Not baby dunks, but on putbacks and drives across the lane. Good sign that one can recover from microfracture and that he's playing with drive and purpose. Good to see. The league needs more players playing to their potential.

Zach has 12 dunks this year, which while a surprise to me, isn't exactly showing that he is explosive. For comaprision, LMA has 140.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/dunk-o-meter/yearly?&_1:col_1=2&start_row=251

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Webster and Outlaw weren't getting involved with the police every other week. Webster and Outlaw weren't causing seats to go unsold in the Rose Garden. Your argument is flawed. The Blazers made a business decision to get rid of a locker room and fanbase cancer while cultivating a youth movement that the management was building, and didn't want Randolph to influence negatively.

The fact that Z-Bo is flourishing in his THIRD team (the first two jettisoning him in similar fashion to the Blazers) isn't surprising. Memphis has a good young athletic core, and Zach has probably grown up a hell of a lot since his "Hoop Family" strip club and hooker days in Portland. Good for him. Hope he keeps it up. The Blazers are just fine without him, and sure as hell wouldn't be better off with him right now.

Randolph was being paid a max contract. Outlaw was being paid peanuts by comparision.

Also, as I already posted, there is a federal drug investigation that involves Zach Randohph's name, and massive amounts of drugs allegedly in a storage unit that Zach leased under his name.

I guess I don't understand why everybody thinks that Zach has turned around his life. At some point, there will be a federal grand jury, and at some point, Zach's name will be brought up during the proceedings.

 

[LittleAlex]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

His Grizzlies are 44-34 even with Rudy Gay missing significant time. All the haters always talked about a team that centers around ZBo can't be a playoff team. I always pointed to his fabulous 3-1 stint as a starter for the Blazers in the 2003 NBA playoffs but all I heard was "he couldn't win with Portland, Clippers, Knicks and it's all his fault." Suddenly, he has transformed a basement team into a 7th place team in the west (and rising? I hope not.) in less than two years. Time to put the "you can't win with Zach Randolph" bullshit to rest. And I love that the same people who bitched about ZBo always getting his "stats" are now bitching about Aldridge not getting his stats even in a game in which we beat the Spurs.

Go Blazers.

He sure has played well on a contract year by leading his team to an 8th seed.


Mother fuck Z-Bo.
I was glad to see him go and I will be glad when his stupid ass is out of the league.

 

[mgb]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

He's still under investigation for his role in a federal drug trafficking case, so far as I know. That's less than a year old, and may be one reason Memphis hasn't given him a contract extension.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/27/zach-randolph-drug-invest_n_591705.html

It's been a year I wonder why nothing else has came of it? I didn't read anything about him being under investigation for a federal drug trafficking case then or now. Only that one local 'informant' said he supplied drugs locally.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

It's been a year I wonder why nothing else has came of it? I didn't read anything about him being under investigation for a federal drug trafficking case then or now. Only that one local 'informant' said he supplied drugs locally.

Federal drug investigations can take years. Look at BALCO/Bonds case, for example. It is also known that, related to this investigation, that one of Zach's buddies was arrested with guns and drugs driving a vehicle registered in Zach's name. Also, I said his name is attached to a federal investigation, and that his name will likely be discussed at a federal grand jury, if it gets to that point. I did go too far in saying that Zach is under investigation, and I retract that portion of my post.

The bottom-line is this. Memphis hasn't extended him, there is still some evidence of Zach's terrible judgement, and he did not produce as a max-contract player, as a max-contract player should produce. One playoff appearance under that contract is an embarrassment, IMO.

 

[maxiep]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Without saying too much, I've been told by someone within the Blazers' organization that trading him wasn't a choice. They had discovered some things about his life and his relationships which made it impossible for him to continue as a Blazer.

Too bad. The guy had real talent. He was surrounded by the worst peer group a rookie could expect and then forced into a #1 option, when he was a #2 or #3 talent. Could you imagine what his career would have been like if he were drafted by the Spurs? The organization would have kept him on the straight and narrow and Pops would have moulded him into an Elton-Brand-like player, who plays all 94 feet.

If he would have been a rookie on this team under Nate, he would have been tremendous. But Nate got him too late. His bad habits had already developed.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

ahhh yes, the mysterious drug investigation and/or dog fighting ring from 4 years ago that no one really is following up on nor is going to rear its ugly head. yeah let me know if it ever sees the light of day....but even then, that is totally irrelevant because unless it comes out in the next month when the Blazers original contract were to expire, then no harm no foul.

Fact of the matter is, his $20m is expiring and we would have had that THIS SEASON with little or no detriment to the team (would we have missed the playoffs..we haven't done SQUAT during the playoffs anyway so where's the loss here)?

Who cares if "Memphis hasn't extended him". We probably wouldn't have either. They're looking at being players in FA. They haven't extended Gasol or ZBO. They'll have the $$$$ to be players if they want, or they can resign their players if they want.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

The Blazers essentially have already got Randolph's expiring contract, just 2 years earlier. It's good they used it then instead of now with a lockout all but certain with big changes coming to the CBA and all the big FA signing a year ago. Good move by KP to look ahead.

There's go that argument for you.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

The Blazers essentially have already got Randolph's expiring contract, just 2 years earlier. It's good they used it then instead of now with a lockout all but certain with big changes coming to the CBA and all the big FA signing a year ago. Good move by KP to look ahead.

There's go that argument for you.

What did they exactly use it for? They used a combination of his expiring contract + RLEC to...sign Andre Miller? Dre was our backup plan after HEDO FUCKING TURKGOLU bailed because portland nightlife sucked.

KP had no plan. They had no free agent target. You can't plan to build to target a player 2 years into the future....the knicks did that with lebron and they got fucked over at the last minute. He dumped ZBO just to satiate fans who were whining about the "jailblazer era". It was a dumb move by him and Tom Penn..the cap genius who really fucked the situation all up.

Imagine if there was a lockout. That was $20 million in contracts the BLAZERS would not have to pay out for players to sit at home. Bravo KP and Tom Penn you cap space fucking mad men.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

What did they exactly use it for? They used a combination of his expiring contract + RLEC to...sign Andre Miller?

KP had no plan. They had no free agent target. You can't plan to build to target a player 2 years into the future....the knicks did that with lebron and they got fucked over at the last minute. He dumped ZBO just to satiate fans who were whining about the "jailblazer era".

Last time I checked Andre Miller is playing a pretty big role on this team.

"KP had no plan" - Lol, OK.

The Knicks got screwed? They signed Amare and would have signed Melo if he weren't traded to them. I think it worked out well for them.

You want to know another team who planned 2 years in advance? The Miami Heat. Hmm, I think they have some pretty good players.

There are plenty of reasons why he dumped ZBo and they are all logical. Good plan that work.