Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?/Genius KP rid of ZBo (merged)

[RoyToy]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

There's a huge difference between a Lamar Odom and a Dante Cunningham/Travis Outlaw.

The key is to just have a good backup

^^^^^

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Ring argument always = failure.

Gasol is a very nice player on a team filled with good players. That said, Lakers fans will tell you Kobe and Bynum are the real keys to a championship. Remember the Lakers lost to the Celtics without Bynum, but have 2 since when he played.

CP3 and Deron are real difference makers. Gasol is a very nice player, but I don't think he is quite on their level.

You're honestly saying that Bynum > Gasol in the Lakers championship hopes?

ok. I don't think I need to continue here.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

You're honestly saying that Bynum > Gasol in the Lakers championship hopes?

ok. I don't think I need to continue here.

Using your own logic he is

Bynum 2-2 in the Finals
Gasol 2-3, 0-1 without Bynum

You're the one that brought up rings, not me.

Get a Lakers fan in here and they can answer it.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Using your own logic he is

Bynum 2-2 in the Finals
Gasol 2-3, 0-1 without Bynum

You're the one that brought up rings, not me.

Get a Lakers fan in here and they can answer it.

I don't think we do. Your analysis is so unbelievably stupid that we don't even need to bother.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

The ZBo Fellatio is getting pretty boring, honestly. The facts are that this guy has played great on contract years but did not bother getting in shape, had fighting dogs, apparently done drugs and had about as much production on defense as Raef's expiring deal in the year Raef did not play in most other years. This dude with the combination of guaranteed contract is the definition of a bad investment.

If you remember that the idea was to have LMA and a healthy Oden - the trade was just right - and if you actually look at what "soft" LMA has done since that trade and compare it to what "ZBo" did as far as win-score for example - you will see that LMA gave you 35.2 in win-score in that time - vs. 25.7 for ZBo. LMA is the better player, has been the better player for quite some time. ZBo was damaged goods at the time - and it is very likely that were he to stay in Portland - he would be a much bigger damaged goods by now - and this team was never to get to where it is today.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

I don't think we do. Your analysis is so unbelievably stupid that we don't even need to bother.

Lol yeah, your non-existent argument saying otherwise is real convincing. Just remember, you're the guy that used the ring argument when comparing him to CP3 and Deron, LOL. The ring argument is a joke and always has been.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

The ZBo Fellatio is getting pretty boring, honestly. The facts are that this guy has played great on contract years but did not bother getting in shape, had fighting dogs, apparently done drugs and had about as much production on defense as Raef's expiring deal in the year Raef did not play in most other years. This dude with the combination of guaranteed contract is the definition of a bad investment.

If you remember that the idea was to have LMA and a healthy Oden - the trade was just right - and if you actually look at what "soft" LMA has done since that trade and compare it to what "ZBo" did as far as win-score for example - you will see that LMA gave you 35.2 in win-score in that time - vs. 25.7 for ZBo. LMA is the better player, has been the better player for quite some time. ZBo was damaged goods at the time - and it is very likely that were he to stay in Portland - he would be a much bigger damaged goods by now - and this team was never to get to where it is today.

You would think so but you're wrong. He was an all star in a non-contract year. He's only gotten better.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

You would think so but you're wrong. He was an all star in a non-contract year. He's only gotten better.

Kevin Love was an all-star this year as well. Means nothing at all. His play last year meant nothing as far as the Griz making it to the playoffs - and he was doing it to get an extension as well - same reason as he does now. LMA is a better player and have been a better player for quite some time now. The fact that we got Rudy and the cap-space to sign Miller for that bum was a work of art.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

if by "quite some time" you mean the last 6 months, then yes.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

if by "quite some time" you mean the last 6 months, then yes.

If you paid attention to what I wrote you would have noticed that in the last 4 years LMA's win-score is much higher than ZBos. That's quite some time. Basketball is played on both sides of the floor - and LMA's defense has made him a better player than ZBo pretty much since ZBo was traded.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

win score and $200 can get you a hooker in vegas.

but then if you care about win score, chances are you're not interested in secks.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

win score and $200 can get you a hooker in vegas.

If only ZBo understood that truth he would not have had to deal with this - http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/po...ph-questioned-in-sexual-assault-not-a-suspect

but then if you care about win score, chances are you're a unic.

I care about winning basketball players - and LMA has won more than Zach did since that trade - for a good reason.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

what's the win score between ZBO and Steve Francis?

why does it have to be ZBO vs. LMA? That is pretty irrelevant.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

what's the win score between ZBO and Steve Francis?

In Steve Francis's advantage (over zero) when you include Rudy, James Jones, Miller and Frye's when playing for the Blazers since that trade.

why does it have to be ZBO vs. LMA? That is pretty irrelevant.

No it is not. The trade was mostly about opening playing time for LMA next to Oden - and getting player and cap space. LMA got the playing time. Got extra players and the cap space got us Miller. Genius trade.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

In Steve Francis's advantage (over zero) when you include Rudy, James Jones, Miller and Frye's when playing for the Blazers since that trade.

No it is not. The trade was mostly about opening playing time for LMA next to Oden - and getting player and cap space. LMA got the playing time. Got extra players and the cap space got us Miller. Genius trade.

LA only improved greatly in the last 6 months when forced to pick up Roy's slack from his injury. Before that he was kind of plateauing and was "LaMarshmellow".

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

LA only improved greatly in the last 6 months when forced to pick up Roy's slack from his injury. Before that he was kind of plateauing and was "LaMarshmellow".

You are right about his offense. He was tons better than ZBo since 2007-2008 on defense - and better all-around since that day. His offensive leap in the last 6 months have moved him from better to tons better all around.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

yeah. he's a better defender. I don't see the harm in keeping him as a backup PF and trading him last deadline or letting him expire. I still think we make the playoffs.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

yeah. he's a better defender. I don't see the harm in keeping him as a backup PF and trading him last deadline or letting him expire. I still think we make the playoffs.

The harm is obvious - we still run Steve Blake as our PG, do not have Camby (since Blake is still around) and we have no Rudy.

Miller/Wes/Wallace/LMA/Camby with Roy/Batum/Rudy and parts is much better than Blake/Wes/Wallace/ZBo/Wallace and Roy off the bench.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

but possibly have a CP3 or Deron Williams? I'd take that.

 

[RoyToy]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

but possibly have a CP3 or Deron Williams? I'd take that.

LOL

Of course you would take that. Guess what, though....

You live in a dreamworld. ZBO wouldn't fetch either of them. Get it through your head.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

but possibly have a CP3 or Deron Williams? I'd take that.

How would we have him? We could not get CP3 for Raef's contract - and we would not have a high-potential guy like Favors to give for Deron. If we are playing what-if - I say that the what-if that Oden was never injured and Roy was never injured and we were contending year in year out is just as likely.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

How would we have him? We could not get CP3 for Raef's contract - and we would not have a high-potential guy like Favors to give for Deron. If we are playing what-if - I say that the what-if that Oden was never injured and Roy was never injured and we were contending year in year out is just as likely.

New Orleans wasn't in the same financial situation back then as they were earlier this year. Batum isn't a high potential guy? He's probably a lot better and further along than Favors with a higher ceiling plus New Orleans liked him. I don't know if you were around last summer or earlier this season but there were tons of CP3 rumors and speculation he wanted to be traded.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

I guess I don't understand why everybody thinks that Zach has turned around his life. .

He won the NBA Cares Community Assist Award:
http://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/z..._nba_cares_community_assist_award-110114.html

Yeah...Dre is good. is he the PGOF we were promised? I don't know about that. Is he worth the huge expiring deals of ZBO + RLEC and holding onto Steve Francis' contract for 2 years? certainly not.

The heat dumped all their players at that last minute to free up cap space. Gave them away. If "Dre was the plan" why did we offer to Hedo first? Dre was the backup plan. KP had no plan. No target.

Dre wasn't even the backup plan. Paul Millsap was.

 

[KingSpeed]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

What I love about this entire thread is that no one is saying "you can't make the playoffs with a team that is centered around Zach Randolph." That phrase was tossed around here repeatedly and now those people have been silenced. Thus, this thread.

Checkmate.

 

[STOMP]

New Orleans wasn't in the same financial situation back then as they were earlier this year.

the Hornets have been a big loser financially since Katrina sapped it's fanbase/community of much of it's disposable income. They had to play 2 seasons in Olk. City immediately after and have been among the league's worst in attendance since despite having some pretty good teams and a true superstar. They had one of the least wealthy owners in the league in George Shinn who had been unsuccessfully trying to sell them for years before basically declaring hardship and requiring the league to buy him out earlier this season. But make no doubt about finances being very tough in New Orleans for some time now.

whats really different about their situation is that Chris Paul's contract ends after next season and quite clearly he's leaving town. When (not if) he is traded, I'd expect it to be to the Eastern Conference. Teams don't want to face their former star who left them any more then they have to.

Batum isn't a high potential guy? He's probably a lot better and further along than Favors with a higher ceiling plus New Orleans liked him.

I'm sure every team likes Nicolas, but a versatile wing player simply doesn't have supply and demand on their side like an athletic Big does. Of course as a 3rd year pro he's further along then a 19 year old rookie but I really don't think non-Blazer fans would share your view as to who has more upside... at best this is an arguable point

STOMP

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

win score and $200 can get you a hooker in vegas.

Well, in that case, I have to look at team success. The Blazers have been more successful with LMA as their starting PF than the Knicks, Clips, or Griz have been with ZBO as their starting PF. I'm not sure where you were going with the above, but wins are wins. LMA wins more than ZBO, who has bounced around the league, and is still yet to get an extension after almost 2 years of "All-Star" play.

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

What I love about this entire thread is that no one is saying "you can't make the playoffs with a team that is centered around Zach Randolph." That phrase was tossed around here repeatedly and now those people have been silenced. Thus, this thread.

Checkmate.

Who said that? My argument has always been "a team centered around Zach Randolph has never made the playoffs, or will never win a title". Congrats to max-contract Zach for finally making the playoffs, but I'm not sure who this thread is directed toward.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Well, in that case, I have to look at team success. The Blazers have been more successful with LMA as their starting PF than the Knicks, Clips, or Griz have been with ZBO as their starting PF. I'm not sure where you were going with the above, but wins are wins. LMA wins more than ZBO, who has bounced around the league, and is still yet to get an extension after almost 2 years of "All-Star" play.

Its good we traded ZBO for LMA then.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

 

[PapaG]

Re: Is it time for me to stick it to the ZBo haters yet?

Its good we traded ZBO for LMA then.

You live in some fantasy world where Zach Randolph could bring a Deron Williams, and I'm the crazy person?

Anyhow, I'm glad your hero Zach made something of himself. I'm a bit surprised that he isn't in prison, but with the rumors out there, that may still be in his future. I don't really care to discuss him further, unless the Blazers are playing the Griz. Arguing hypothetical with a crazy person who assigns unrealistic trade value to ZBO is an even bigger waste of time than normal.