OT Is James Harden the best PG in the NBA?

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Superbeard said:
I despise the Utah Jazz, their fans, and everything their fans stand for.
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Superbeard said:
It doesn't really matter, he's probably the best guard in the NBA. Westbrook and Curry are the only ones that deserve to be in that discussion along with him. Anyone that's actually watched them play know he's far from being selfish and also that this is far from being an ISO offense. These assists are not greedy assist, there is an actual offense that they run here and he runs it. Sure sometimes he goes ISO but he's Harden, he can pull that off every now and then. Sometimes Kawhi goes ISO, doesn't mean the Spurs have an ISO offense.

The main difference is that Harden has always been an excellent PNR player and with Dwight gone he finally gets to run the PNR now and he willingly slings the ball all over the court. He'll really only attack as the game nears the end. The hate on Harden is funny though, truth is he's a top 5 player in the NBA. Anyone that's watched that Spurs game would see he's far from a selfish player, he put on a passing display. Does it every night. Pocket passes, full court heaves, passing across the defense...as someone mentioned before it really doesn't matter. Curry is more of a SG and Westbrook is more of a...combination of the two I suppose.

Also his defense has been well hid all year. You won't find a single rocket fan complain about his defensive effort. Last year you couldn't say the same. The reason is he's not being asked to guard the hardest opponent true, but he's had less moments where he spaces out and loses focus.

Oh yeah to @Orion Bailey for calling me out some weeks ago about scaring me away. Nah, but I get it. I despise the Utah Jazz, their fans, and everything their fans stand for. That is an eternal rival that I will always have hate for, so I get why one would frustrate you so much to remember me :P
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No frustration whatsoever. I've even complimented you around here a couple times about not being the typical troll. You bring something to this forum. respect.
I still think your boy is a POS flop machine though. lol.
 
Hobbesarable said:
You don't think D'Antoni put him in a position to play like this with his teammates?
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I think the Rockets pairing of Harden and D'Antoni is a perfect match...he's playing amazing as a pt guard on offense......somebody said he's better defensively but I disagree....he sucks on defense....still matador like....the team is playing better defense though, but that's not his doing
 
Superbeard said:
Anyone that's actually watched them play know he's far from being selfish and also that this is far from being an ISO offense. These assists are not greedy assist, there is an actual offense that they run here and he runs it. Sure sometimes he goes ISO but he's Harden, he can pull that off every now and then. Sometimes Kawhi goes ISO, doesn't mean the Spurs have an ISO offense.
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. Here's the difference though: Kawhi plays in an offense that relies on ball movement while the Rockets rely almost solely on Harden creating offense. Regardless of if it's through ISOs or pick n rolls, Harden is literally expected to create his own shot or another's every time down the floor. Same with Westbrook. When someone is in that situation, their stats are gonna be insane. To be able to do that takes a great player that can attack defenses very well. There's few that could, but if Westbrook, Lillard, and Kyrie were in the same situation and offense, I think theyd be putting up 30 and 10 as well.

So while his stats are improved and look insane right now, is he that much better? I think it's a product of D'Antoni, shooters, and how much he's relied on, rather than improvements in his game.

Take someone like Lillard. Nearly the same, but a more efficient scoring clip, but less assists. However, he plays in an offense that moves the ball, and is played off the ball a lot. He also give way to CJ McCollum a lot (for good reason), and doesn't have the shooters around him Harden does. Does all those circumstances that go into the disparity in Hardens and Lillards assist numbers make Harden better as a player? I'm not sure. Lillard has been more efficient and is certainly a better defender and locker room leader.
 
Lillard may only average 5 apg but he's more unselfish than Harden and Westbrook. Lillard doesn't need every play to be about him.
 
Mediocre Man said:
So because he plays for Houston we aren't allowed to appreciate how great he's playing?
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Yeah, on the Houston Rockets fanboy site. You tend to beat the Harden tub into the ground, just like you do your Leonard hate. We get it already. Move the f**k on....or, do the seemingly impossible and say something positive about the Trailblazers for a nice change of pace.....
 
BonesJones said:
. Here's the difference though: Kawhi plays in an offense that relies on ball movement while the Rockets rely almost solely on Harden creating offense. Regardless of if it's through ISOs or pick n rolls, Harden is literally expected to create his own shot or another's every time down the floor. Same with Westbrook. When someone is in that situation, their stats are gonna be insane. To be able to do that takes a great player that can attack defenses very well. There's few that could, but if Westbrook, Lillard, and Kyrie were in the same situation and offense, I think theyd be putting up 30 and 10 as well.

So while his stats are improved and look insane right now, is he that much better? I think it's a product of D'Antoni, shooters, and how much he's relied on, rather than improvements in his game.

Take someone like Lillard. Nearly the same, but a more efficient scoring clip, but less assists. However, he plays in an offense that moves the ball, and is played off the ball a lot. He also give way to CJ McCollum a lot (for good reason), and doesn't have the shooters around him Harden does. Does all those circumstances that go into the disparity in Hardens and Lillards assist numbers make Harden better as a player? I'm not sure. Lillard has been more efficient and is certainly a better defender and locker room leader.
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This pretty much sums it up...
Great points.
 
Mediocre Man said:
So because he plays for Houston we aren't allowed to appreciate how great he's playing?
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Look at the big picture though man. :)
Most of your posts are not about praising those you DO like on this team. They are about berating those you DO NOT like on this team. And then top if off with making a thread like this, which, I personally could care less about, but nonetheless, it does lead one to want to question the troldom. I know better, but perception is everything. :)
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Yeah, on the Houston Rockets fanboy site. You tend to beat the Harden tub into the ground, just like you do your Leonard hate. We get it already. Move the f**k on....or, do the seemingly impossible and say something positive about the Trailblazers for a nice change of pace.....
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I'll try and channel my inner HCP and say .....

Easy rook
 
Orion Bailey said:
Look at the big picture though man. :)
Most of your posts are not about praising those you DO like on this team. They are about berating those you DO NOT like on this team. And then top if off with making a thread like this, which, I personally could care less about, but nonetheless, it does lead one to want to question the troldom. I know better, but perception is everything. :)
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I think there are enough Blazer fan boy threads started by the posi-trolls. A forum where everyone says the same thing, and has the exact same view on all the players would be a good thing to you?
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think there are enough Blazer fan boy threads started by the posi-trolls. A forum where everyone says the same thing, and has the exact same view on all the players would be a good thing to you?
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I don't have the same view as you when it comes to other players not on this team. THEY ALL SUCK!!!!!!! ;)
 
I have the same problem with Harden that I have with Westbrook. They're both phenomenal players, but I can't stand how they play. It's a style issue. Curry is phenomenal and he doesn't bother me nearly as much.
 
In fact I'll go as far as to say that if Dame was averaging what The Beard is, you would all be going crazy with the DameForMVP thing!
 
HCP said:
In fact I'll go as far as to say that if Dame was averaging what The Beard is, you would all be going crazy with the DameForMVP thing!
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Nah, they'd all be bitching about how the entire rest of the roster is underachieving and how they are wasting the prime of Dame's career.

BNM
 
Natebishop3 said:
Is anyone saying he doesn't have skill?

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This whole thread almost all replies have been negative towards his game. Thats what I was talking about. About 3 of us have acknowledged him in a positive light. His numbers are KILLING Nash during his all star seasons plain and simple, yet people must still hate.
 
HCP said:
This whole thread almost all replies have been negative towards his game. Thats what I was talking about. About 3 of us have acknowledged him in a positive light. His numbers are KILLING Nash during his all star seasons plain and simple, yet people must still hate.
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I acknowledge that he's a an offensive monster. But it isn't just that he's a poor defensive player, it's that he doesn't even TRY to play defense. You can't get much more one dimensional than that....and that's why I wouldn't want him on my team.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
I acknowledge that he's a an offensive monster. But it isn't just that he's a poor defensive player, it's that he doesn't even TRY to play defense. You can't get much more one dimensional than that....and that's why I wouldn't want him on my team.
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I wouldn't either for the same reason but he's added a lot of rebounding and assists this season...even without the D....and D'Antoni got Steve Nash 2 MVPs while he was a horrible defender so I get the comparisons
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
I acknowledge that he's a an offensive monster. But it isn't just that he's a poor defensive player, it's that he doesn't even TRY to play defense. You can't get much more one dimensional than that....and that's why I wouldn't want him on my team.
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When does playing defense ever come into play when talking about the best or MVP level players. It SHOULD, but it DOESN'T!
Reggie Miller made allstar games all the time and never played D. The aforementioned Nash was a HORRIBLE defender. There are TONS of all star level players who suck on the defensive end of the court.
But when you are as completely dominating as Harden is on the other end, who gives a fuck!
Of course everybody wants a player that brings it on both ends, but that just isn't the norm.
Just wishing people would sit back and give credit where it's due. I hate him and the Rockets, but damn sure acknowledge how good he is.
 
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