Exclusive Is Joe Cronin a good GM?

[SharpesTriumph]

Is Joe Cronin a Good GM?

 

[AquaXI]

Patience is a virtue. He has plenty of it.

He got the best scenario for Dame when Miami thought they had him cornered.

He didn't jump the gun and waited patiently in the draft for the desired player to come to him at 7.

Holding out for the best offer on Grant.

He is not great but passes for good so far.

 

[beast blazer]

He's been ok, but I'll like him a lot more if he finds a way to get rid if Simons/Grant/Ayton before the trade deadline.

 

[kjironman1]

The win/loss record ain't much good. Lets just put it that way.

 

[Cugel]

no.
The roster and assets are horrible. Worst in the league with WAS. Even DET is moving along and they never had a star to deal. The Dame trade had to be made but the results are in and it was a disaster any way you look at it (he got lucky with TC, aint no way he was thinking that he is the center piece of the deal). His trade record sucks. Norm and Roco deal? Paid dearly for Deni and hopefully that pans out. But is he a starter on a good team?? Recent draft picks are busts except DC. Rip the band aid off and realize Shae and Scoot are not starters on winning teams. Maybe the drafts in 28 and 29 will be strong like this 25 draft? But POR is going nowhere.

The roster is saddled with vets that, for the most part, are bad assets. Reath is probably the only one that will be gone by the deadline.

He is probably considered league wide, by other GMs and FOs, one of the worst.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Probably a good GM. Maybe only marginally better than bad. Can't look at wins and losses with the situation he came into.

 

[Hoopguru]

The Vulcans have exactly who they want in his position. When he has said publicly that these guys, are win now players (Scoot, Murray, Rupert) I was skeptical. Id give him a c- at this point.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'd say he's in the top 30 of current NBA GM's.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'd say he's in the top 30 of current NBA GM's.

Now tell us how you really feel?

 

[wizenheimer]

gauging by 'good transactions/'meh' transactions/bad transactions', the bad and meh considerably outweigh the good...so no

even in the draft, which is supposed to be the Cronin/Schmitz wheelhouse, there are many more questions about the Sharpe/Scoot selections than anyone would like

 

[Phatguysrule]

gauging by 'good transactions/'meh' transactions/bad transactions', the bad and meh considerably outweigh the good...so no

even in the draft, which is supposed to be the Cronin/Schmitz wheelhouse, there are many more questions about the Sharpe/Scoot selections than anyone would like

Solid points. The Deni trade really makes me question the intended process.

 

[blazerkor]

The significance of the negative things he's done far outweigh the positive things he's done and that's without me weighing whether or not he should have chosen a rebuild over building around Dame. He's been a bad GM.

From most recent to the beginning of his tenure his negatives are:

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni.

-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.

-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp.

-Not flipping Rob and Malcolm immediately.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday.

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).

-Overpaying Ant.

-Overpaying Nurk.

-Not getting enough for Hart.

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him.

-The non return for two impact guys like RoCo and Norm. RoCo was re-signed by the Clippers using his bird rights and Norm is still out performing his contract for them.

From earliest in his tenure to now, his positives are:

-The return for CJ and Nance wasn't bad, it wasn't great but also not bad.

-The return for Dame, Nurk and Nas was good on its face (Tou is great). A lot of what Joe did after the initial trade has been documented above in his negatives.

-The trade for Banton is probably the best move he's made on its own.

-I don't think any of the draft picks have been bad... regardless of where they end up, they were great to solid picks at the time.

-The way he got Clingan without moving up when everyone knew Clingan was his target was impressive.

 

[blazerkor]

Solid points. The Deni trade really makes me question the intended process.

Yeah I tried to take out the "what in the actual fuck is this guy's direction for our team" and the "I absolutely hate this dumbass two timeline bullshit he's pulling" because just on his re-signings and the lack of overall return on his trades he fucking sucks as a GM.

 

[Phatguysrule]

The significance of the negative things he's done far outweigh the positive things he's done and that's without me weighing whether or not he should have chosen a rebuild over building around Dame. He's been a bad GM.

From most recent to the beginning of his tenure his negatives are:

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni.

-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.

-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp.

-Not flipping Rob and Malcolm immediately.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday.

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).

-Overpaying Ant.

-Overpaying Nurk.

-Not getting enough for Hart.

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him.

-The non return for two impact guys like RoCo and Norm. RoCo was re-signed by the Clippers using his bird rights and Norm is still out performing his contract for them.

From earliest in his tenure to now, his positives are:

-The return for CJ and Nance wasn't bad, it wasn't great but also not bad.

-The return for Dame, Nurk and Nas was good on its face (Tou is great). A lot of what Joe did after the initial trade has been documented above in his negatives.

-The trade for Banton is probably the best move he's made on its own.

-I don't think any of the draft picks have been bad... regardless of where they end up, they were great to solid picks at the time.

-The way he got Clingan without moving up when everyone knew Clingan was his target was impressive.

Honestly just getting as many first round picks out of this as possible would have been better than any players.

I'd rather just have the best picks possible for each of these deals. Just take bad contracts and draft picks for crying out loud. Even getting a FRP out of every two of these players (aside from Dame/Jrue) would be great.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

I have been preaching this since the Dame stuff but people wanted to defend this idiot but he is a clueless tool. I am sorry to put down "tools" cause they have a purpose Cronin has none but he has a very small chance to redeem himself a little by finding homes for the following players and getting back solid assets.

Ayton - No GM is stupid enough to trade for this clown ... except Cronin so we are prolly stuck with this idiot UNLESS we package a pick and a solid young player with him and that might be just as dumb so rock and a hard place
Ant -- He might have the most value he has had in years so find a team get a 1st and a young promising player and whatever else to make salaries work and trade him away.
Grant -- Black hole for this young team so trade him to the Lakers for scraps and a 1st and run away from him.
Thybulle - Get anything you can for him and be rid of him as long as you do not take back another bad contract.


This team is doomed as long as Cronin and Billups and for the fact Jody owns this team so our only hope is Jody sells cause she will prolly not fire the puppet Cronin who gets his marching orders for whatever company is managing this team now or whatever it is. I hate to say this as a die hard fan but this is the truth and anyone who cannot see that is letting there fandom override there brain -- PERIOD

 

[Natebishop3]

The significance of the negative things he's done far outweigh the positive things he's done and that's without me weighing whether or not he should have chosen a rebuild over building around Dame. He's been a bad GM.

From most recent to the beginning of his tenure his negatives are:

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni.

-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.

-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp.

-Not flipping Rob and Malcolm immediately.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday.

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).

-Overpaying Ant.

-Overpaying Nurk.

-Not getting enough for Hart.

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him.

-The non return for two impact guys like RoCo and Norm. RoCo was re-signed by the Clippers using his bird rights and Norm is still out performing his contract for them.

From earliest in his tenure to now, his positives are:

-The return for CJ and Nance wasn't bad, it wasn't great but also not bad.

-The return for Dame, Nurk and Nas was good on its face (Tou is great). A lot of what Joe did after the initial trade has been documented above in his negatives.

-The trade for Banton is probably the best move he's made on its own.

-I don't think any of the draft picks have been bad... regardless of where they end up, they were great to solid picks at the time.

-The way he got Clingan without moving up when everyone knew Clingan was his target was impressive.
.

I think a lot of these are still in the oven.

I agree with your positives so I'm just gonna address the negatives.

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni. (Disagree)- I don't know about this.... I guess if you think we would have drafted Knecht. I think a lot of us were overvaluing Malcolm. I think Deni should be playing power forward. His L10 games are really good.


-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.(Disagree) - We don't know what his trade value was at that time. The rumors were that he didn't have much. I think it makes sense to wait till the deadline and see if the trade value improved at all. He has been playing better so I guess we will see.


-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp (Disagree)- same deal with Ant. I think he's probably worth one FRP but it was worth it to wait and see if a team would increase it to 2. I still think he's worth one FRP. We lost nothing by hanging onto him.

-Not flipping Rob and Malcolm immediately.(Agree) - I agree with this one.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday. (TBD) - How much more do you think we could have gotten for him?

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).(Disagree) - this is TBD until we see what we end up getting for him. If we essentially get back what we traded, a FRP, I'm totally fine with his contract. We couldn't afford to lose him for nothing.

-Overpaying Ant. (TBD)- I think this will be irrelevant unless we can't trade him.

-Overpaying Nurk. - (Disagree) we were able to trade him and we needed that salary for matching purposes. This is fine. That offseason we had like three tradable contracts. Dame/Simons/Nurk.

-Not getting enough for Hart. - What do you think a fair trade would have been?

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him. - did he have value at that point? I think he was just a throw in.

-The non return for two impact guys like RoCo and Norm. RoCo was re-signed by the Clippers using his bird rights and Norm is still out performing his contract for them. - this was his worst trade. I'm not entirely convinced it was his decision.

 

[wizenheimer]

The significance of the negative things he's done far outweigh the positive things he's done and that's without me weighing whether or not he should have chosen a rebuild over building around Dame. He's been a bad GM.

From most recent to the beginning of his tenure his negatives are:

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni.

-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.

-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp.

-Not flipping Rob and Malcolm immediately.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday.

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).

-Overpaying Ant.

-Overpaying Nurk.

-Not getting enough for Hart.

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him.

-The non return for two impact guys like RoCo and Norm. RoCo was re-signed by the Clippers using his bird rights and Norm is still out performing his contract for them.

From earliest in his tenure to now, his positives are:

-The return for CJ and Nance wasn't bad, it wasn't great but also not bad.

-The return for Dame, Nurk and Nas was good on its face (Tou is great). A lot of what Joe did after the initial trade has been documented above in his negatives.

-The trade for Banton is probably the best move he's made on its own.

-I don't think any of the draft picks have been bad... regardless of where they end up, they were great to solid picks at the time.

-The way he got Clingan without moving up when everyone knew Clingan was his target was impressive.

in the negative column, you forgot hard-capping the team for Payton and matching the way-bloated offer sheet for Thybulle

I'm not sure Clingan 'sliding' to 7 is a positive for Cronin. Kind of neutral because it was the decisions of others ahead of him in the draft

 

[tlongII]

Who hired Cronin? Therein lies your answer.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The significance of the negative things he's done far outweigh the positive things he's done and that's without me weighing whether or not he should have chosen a rebuild over building around Dame. He's been a bad GM.

From most recent to the beginning of his tenure his negatives are:

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni.

-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.

-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp.

-Not flipping Rob and Malcolm immediately.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday.

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).

-Overpaying Ant.

-Overpaying Nurk.

-Not getting enough for Hart.

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him.

-The non return for two impact guys like RoCo and Norm. RoCo was re-signed by the Clippers using his bird rights and Norm is still out performing his contract for them.

From earliest in his tenure to now, his positives are:

-The return for CJ and Nance wasn't bad, it wasn't great but also not bad.

-The return for Dame, Nurk and Nas was good on its face (Tou is great). A lot of what Joe did after the initial trade has been documented above in his negatives.

-The trade for Banton is probably the best move he's made on its own.

-I don't think any of the draft picks have been bad... regardless of where they end up, they were great to solid picks at the time.

-The way he got Clingan without moving up when everyone knew Clingan was his target was impressive.

So really Cronin best 3 positive moves you list are;

1 Dame haul (ignoring what he did afterwards)
2 Banton (who will be an UFA)
3 Clingan (Injured half his rookie season so far)

That's pretty bad for having 4 years to improve this team.

I'd say the team is somehow worse off today than the day Olshey was fired. That horrible considering we've tanked for picks the past 4 years with losses that Olshey never had over a decade.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd say the team is somehow worse off today than the day Olshey was fired.

 

[blazerkor]

-A serious overpay on Deni even though I like Deni. (Disagree)- I don't know about this.... I guess if you think we would have drafted Knecht. I think a lot of us were overvaluing Malcolm. I think Deni should be playing power forward. His L10 games are really good.

I consider two FRPs whether they're in a weak draft or not to be an overpay for what the value around the league for Deni was and still is. I try to be level headed about Malcolm and think of him as neutral salary filler.

-Not getting rid of Ant by this last training camp.(Disagree) - We don't know what his trade value was at that time. The rumors were that he didn't have much. I think it makes sense to wait till the deadline and see if the trade value improved at all. He has been playing better so I guess we will see.

Unless it was negative trade value then I think we missed an opportunity for a clean break and more reps (PT and/or usage) for the guys who we are still hoping to get a lot better.

-Not getting rid of Jerami by this last training camp (Disagree)- same deal with Ant. I think he's probably worth one FRP but it was worth it to wait and see if a team would increase it to 2. I still think he's worth one FRP. We lost nothing by hanging onto him.

Same deal as with Ant. If we could have got that one FRP we should have, simultaneously getting that same clean break and those same reps freed up. On both Ant and Jerami, Joe can prove me wrong and get good deals for him at the trade deadline. I'd love to be wrong about these two.

-Not getting a big enough return he got for Holiday. (TBD) - How much more do you think we could have gotten for him?

They won the fucking chip. We got one FRP and we'll see if we get any value from the players. His value to the Celtics has already been determined to be huge.

-Overpaying Jerami (especially for where the team was obviously headed).(Disagree) - this is TBD until we see what we end up getting for him. If we essentially get back what we traded, a FRP, I'm totally fine with his contract. We couldn't afford to lose him for nothing.

I hope you're right on this one. Fingers crossed.

-Overpaying Ant. (TBD)- I think this will be irrelevant unless we can't trade him.

I hope you're right on your line of thinking but Ant was still a restricted free agent and we didn't for one second make him prove that he could have gotten what we gave him and most reporters around the league didn't think he could have. We bid against ourselves I think we did the same thing with Nurk but won't quote to disagree with you on that one because he wasn't restricted. Ant would have more value the lower his salary would have been.

-Not getting enough for Hart. - What do you think a fair trade would have been?

Damn I think he is a helluva lot more valuable in the NBA today than Deni is. So more than a first and I'm not sure we got more than a first. If we get positive value in a trade for Tisse, I'll be happy to be wrong.

-Just offloading Alexander-Walker instead of keeping him or getting value back for him. - did he have value at that point? I think he was just a throw in.

I liked NAW then and belly ached about only getting the bird rights to an injured Ingles wasn't enough if we intended to re-sign Ingles and the way Joe chose to take the franchise this move was fucking terrible. He had a lot of value as a prospect around the league at the time and just that next summer Cronin didn't re-sign Ingles and showed that prospects had a ton of value to him when he chose to draft and keep Shaedon instead of doing what he could to get a win now piece to put with Dame.

Overall I think all of the things you said are well thought out and my opinion on them just differs from yours. Nothing you said is necessarily wrong. Joe is still our GM, so I hope you are right and we get some good moves at the deadline and have a brighter future.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

OMG -- Nate just stop your making yourself look like a tool cause defending Cronin is just garbage and it looks like the fans are starting to come around to this so your starting to be in the SS Cronin and it's sinking and the people around you are jumping ship ( realizing the truth ) but you have your bucket trying to stop the water from sinking the ship having Cronin's ass -- your so funny and kind of sad but you do you.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I'd say the team is somehow worse off today than the day Olshey was fired. That horrible considering we've tanked for picks the past 4 years with losses that Olshey never had over a decade.

I mean, we had Dame when Olshey was fired. So yeah. We're far worse off now.

I think Dame was probably going to demand out anyway, so it's tough to use this as a gauge.

 

[Natebishop3]

OMG -- Nate just stop your making yourself look like a tool cause defending Cronin is just garbage and it looks like the fans are starting to come around to this so your starting to be in the SS Cronin and it's sinking and the people around you are jumping ship ( realizing the truth ) but you have your bucket trying to stop the water from sinking the ship having Cronin's ass -- your so funny and kind of sad but you do you.

lol k

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I mean, we had Dame when Olshey was fired. So yeah. We're far worse off now.

I think Dame was probably going to demand out anyway, so it's tough to use this as a gauge.

We had Dame CJ Nurk Roco Nance Powell Ant

It was 4 years ago so those guys were worth way more back then than today. But there was a lot of opportunity to trade most of them and get real value back for a quality rebuild.

Instead we now have Deni Grant Ayton Camara Thybulle Murray for them. Just a bunch of irrelevant shit. Don't see how anyone could consider this good work by Cronin over the last 4 years.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We had Dame CJ Nurk Roco Nance Powell Ant

It was 4 years ago so those guys were worth way more back then than today. But there was a lot of opportunity to trade most of them and get real value back for a quality rebuild.

Instead we now have Deni Grant Ayton Camara Thybulle Murray for them. Just a bunch of irrelevant shit. Don't see how anyone could consider this good work by Cronin over the last 4 years.

I'm not sure their has been opportunity to do much else. Maybe draft differently... We couldn't keep those guys, and everyone knew that. I simply don't think there were better options available and keeping them would have prevented us from tanking and getting the opportunity to draft as high as we did.

Once Dame demanded out that's the path we were on. There wasn't much else to be done.

It was just a shitty situation to put all of those short guys around Dame. It hurt all of their value.

 

[KingSpeed]

Yes. First GM in Blazers history, really, to full out tank 4 years in a row to get us the young talent needed to put together a truly competitive team. He also finally added size. The people who say no aren’t aware how good Scoot/Sharpe/Clingan are. The only way to get players like that in Portland is to tank.

 

[KingSpeed]

We had Dame CJ Nurk Roco Nance Powell Ant

It was 4 years ago so those guys were worth way more back then than today. But there was a lot of opportunity to trade most of them and get real value back for a quality rebuild.

Instead we now have Deni Grant Ayton Camara Thybulle Murray for them. Just a bunch of irrelevant shit. Don't see how anyone could consider this good work by Cronin over the last 4 years.

Deni, Grant, Camara, and Thybulle aren’t irrelevant. They could all be key players on a contender (hopefully us in a couple years). Ayton was a misfire, his only really bad move.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Deni, Grant, Camara, and Thybulle aren’t irrelevant. They could all be key players on a contender (hopefully us in a couple years). Ayton was a misfire, his only really bad move.

Ayton brought in Camara. And we only had to give up an older, arguably less good player with the same contract length.

I'm not sure how that's a misfire.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don’t think he’s a bad GM, so…sure