Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Science Is Trump actually losing mental competence? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Rastapopoulos
- Start date
Welcome to our community
Be a part of something great, join today!
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
http://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-that-brutalizes-the-clinton-campaign-w477978
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cd6118e1409_story.html?utm_term=.cdd34a887d52
At the end of Chapter One, which is entirely about that campaign's exhausting and fruitless search for a plausible explanation for why Hillary was running, writers Allen and Parnes talk about the infighting problem.
"All of the jockeying might have been all right, but for a root problem that confounded everyone on the campaign and outside it," they wrote. "Hillary had been running for president for almost a decade and still didn't really have a rationale."
Allen and Parnes here quoted a Clinton aide who jokingly summed up Clinton's real motivation:
"I would have had a reason for running," one of her top aides said, "or I wouldn't have run."
The beleaguered Clinton staff spent the better part of two years trying to roll this insane tautology – "I have a reason for running because no one runs without a reason" – into the White House. It was a Beltway take on the classic Descartes formulation: "I seek re-election, therefore I am... seeking re-election."
Let's hear more about this dementia thing."All of the jockeying might have been all right, but for a root problem that confounded everyone on the campaign and outside it," they wrote. "Hillary had been running for president for almost a decade and still didn't really have a rationale."
Allen and Parnes here quoted a Clinton aide who jokingly summed up Clinton's real motivation:
"I would have had a reason for running," one of her top aides said, "or I wouldn't have run."
The beleaguered Clinton staff spent the better part of two years trying to roll this insane tautology – "I have a reason for running because no one runs without a reason" – into the White House. It was a Beltway take on the classic Descartes formulation: "I seek re-election, therefore I am... seeking re-election."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...cd6118e1409_story.html?utm_term=.cdd34a887d52
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 127,349
- Likes
- 147,874
- Points
- 115
Donald Trump has 'dangerous mental illness', say psychiatry experts at Yale conference
Mental health experts say President is 'paranoid and delusional'
Donald Trump has a “dangerous mental illness” and is not fit to lead the US, a group of psychiatrists has warned during a conference at Yale University.
Mental health experts claimed the President was “paranoid and delusional”, and said it was their “ethical responsibility” to warn the American public about the “dangers” Mr Trump’s psychological state poses to the country.
Speaking at the conference at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday, one of the mental health professionals, Dr John Gartner, a practising psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School, said: “We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump's dangerous mental illness.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-president-unfit-james-gartner-a7694316.html
Mental health experts say President is 'paranoid and delusional'
Donald Trump has a “dangerous mental illness” and is not fit to lead the US, a group of psychiatrists has warned during a conference at Yale University.
Mental health experts claimed the President was “paranoid and delusional”, and said it was their “ethical responsibility” to warn the American public about the “dangers” Mr Trump’s psychological state poses to the country.
Speaking at the conference at Yale’s School of Medicine on Thursday, one of the mental health professionals, Dr John Gartner, a practising psychotherapist who advised psychiatric residents at Johns Hopkins University Medical School, said: “We have an ethical responsibility to warn the public about Donald Trump's dangerous mental illness.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...s-president-unfit-james-gartner-a7694316.html
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/opinion/is-it-time-to-call-trump-mentally-ill.html
But the attempt to diagnose a condition in President Trump and declare him mentally unfit to serve is misguided for several reasons.
First, all experts have political beliefs that probably distort their psychiatric judgment. Consider what my mostly liberal profession said of Senator Barry Goldwater, the Republican nominee for president in 1964, right before the election. Members of the American Psychiatric Association were surveyed about their assessment of Goldwater by the now-defunct Fact magazine. Many savaged him, calling him “paranoid,” “grossly psychotic” and a “megalomaniac.” Some provided diagnoses, like schizophrenia and narcissistic personality disorder.
They used their professional knowledge as a political weapon against a man they had never examined and who certainly would never have consented to their discussing his mental health in public.
Goldwater sued (successfully) and, as a result, in 1973 the A.P.A. developed the Goldwater Rule. It says that psychiatrists can discuss mental health issues with the news media, but that it is unethical for them to diagnose mental illnesses in people they have not examined and whose consent they have not received.
Contrary to what many believe, this rule does not mean that professionals must remain silent about public figures. In fact, the guidelines specifically state that mental health experts should share their knowledge to educate the public.
So while it would be unethical for a psychiatrist to say that President Trump has narcissistic personality disorder, he or she could discuss common narcissistic character traits, like grandiosity and intolerance of criticism, and how they might explain Mr. Trump’s behavior. In other words, psychiatrists can talk about the psychology and symptoms of narcissism in general, and the public is free to decide whether the information could apply to the individual.
This may seem like splitting hairs, but it isn’t. Diagnosis requires a thorough examination of a patient, a detailed history and all relevant clinical data — none of which can be gathered from afar.
/thread (and the stupidity behind it)
But the attempt to diagnose a condition in President Trump and declare him mentally unfit to serve is misguided for several reasons.
First, all experts have political beliefs that probably distort their psychiatric judgment. Consider what my mostly liberal profession said of Senator Barry Goldwater, the Republican nominee for president in 1964, right before the election. Members of the American Psychiatric Association were surveyed about their assessment of Goldwater by the now-defunct Fact magazine. Many savaged him, calling him “paranoid,” “grossly psychotic” and a “megalomaniac.” Some provided diagnoses, like schizophrenia and narcissistic personality disorder.
They used their professional knowledge as a political weapon against a man they had never examined and who certainly would never have consented to their discussing his mental health in public.
Goldwater sued (successfully) and, as a result, in 1973 the A.P.A. developed the Goldwater Rule. It says that psychiatrists can discuss mental health issues with the news media, but that it is unethical for them to diagnose mental illnesses in people they have not examined and whose consent they have not received.
Contrary to what many believe, this rule does not mean that professionals must remain silent about public figures. In fact, the guidelines specifically state that mental health experts should share their knowledge to educate the public.
So while it would be unethical for a psychiatrist to say that President Trump has narcissistic personality disorder, he or she could discuss common narcissistic character traits, like grandiosity and intolerance of criticism, and how they might explain Mr. Trump’s behavior. In other words, psychiatrists can talk about the psychology and symptoms of narcissism in general, and the public is free to decide whether the information could apply to the individual.
This may seem like splitting hairs, but it isn’t. Diagnosis requires a thorough examination of a patient, a detailed history and all relevant clinical data — none of which can be gathered from afar.
/thread (and the stupidity behind it)
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 127,349
- Likes
- 147,874
- Points
- 115
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
Except when you're posting about Hillary?
Maybe those who support her and post this blather might look in the mirror.
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2015
- Messages
- 12,451
- Likes
- 9,269
- Points
- 113
He uses information whether it is accurate or non valuable. USS aircraft carrier Carl Vinson 3000 miles away from the Korean peninsula is a good example.
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...er-carl-vinson-korea-saga-what-happened-20278
April 9:
The 3rd Fleet Public Affairs office released a press statement on April 9 which read, “Adm. Harry Harris, commander, U.S. Pacific Command, has directed the Carl Vinson Strike Group to sail north and report on station in the Western Pacific Ocean.”
The press statement said that the carrier strike group left Singapore one day prior.
That same day, Reuters wrote that a U.S. official said the Vinson was moving into the Western Pacific near the Korean peninsula because “we feel the increased presence is necessary.”
In the wake of that report, The Associated Press, citing the Pentagon, wrote, “A Navy carrier strike group is moving toward the Western Pacific Ocean to provide a physical presence near the Korean Peninsula.”
In both the Reuters and AP reports, the movement of the Vinson to waters near Korea was called a “show of force.” There is no indication of an arrival date in either post, but a New York Times article hinted that it would be arriving around the time North Korea celebrated the “Day of the Sun” on April 15.
The NYT, citing military and intelligence officials, wrote, “The timing of the of the ship movements was also intended to anticipate a milestone event coming up on the Korean Peninsula: the anniversary on Saturday of the birth of Kim Il-sung, North Korea’s founder and the grandfather of the country’s current leader, Kim Jong-un.”
U.S. Pacific Command signaled that the purpose of redirecting the ship was related to North Korea’s frequent provocations, which include multiple missile launches in recent weeks.
“U.S. Pacific Command ordered the Carl Vinson Strike Group north as a prudent measure to maintain readiness and presence in the Western Pacific,” said Commander Dave Benham, “The number one threat in the region continues to be North Korea, due to its reckless, irresponsible and destabilizing program of missile tests and pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability.”
April 11:
Secretary of Defense James Mattis downplayed the Vinson’s movements, stating that the ships deployment was not intended as a show of force.
“There’s not a specific demand signal or specific reason we’re sending her up there,” Mattis said at a press conference, adding, “She’s stationed in the Western Pacific for a reason. She operates freely up and down the Pacific, and she’s on her way up there because that’s where we thought it was most prudent to have her at this time.”
Mattis also mentioned that the Vinson would not be taking part in joint exercises with Australia; however, Voice of America, citing military officials, later reported that the exercises would still be held, but on an accelerated basis — signaling that perhaps the carrier could still get up north in time for North Korea’s big day.
“It would be unlikely the Vinson [carrier strike group] wouldn’t arrive before the April 15 Day of the Sun, the annual holiday that celebrates the birth of North Korea founder Kim il-Sung,” USNI News reported.
April 9:
The 3rd Fleet Public Affairs office released a press statement on April 9 which read, “Adm. Harry Harris, commander, U.S. Pacific Command, has directed the Carl Vinson Strike Group to sail north and report on station in the Western Pacific Ocean.”
The press statement said that the carrier strike group left Singapore one day prior.
That same day, Reuters wrote that a U.S. official said the Vinson was moving into the Western Pacific near the Korean peninsula because “we feel the increased presence is necessary.”
In the wake of that report, The Associated Press, citing the Pentagon, wrote, “A Navy carrier strike group is moving toward the Western Pacific Ocean to provide a physical presence near the Korean Peninsula.”
In both the Reuters and AP reports, the movement of the Vinson to waters near Korea was called a “show of force.” There is no indication of an arrival date in either post, but a New York Times article hinted that it would be arriving around the time North Korea celebrated the “Day of the Sun” on April 15.
The NYT, citing military and intelligence officials, wrote, “The timing of the of the ship movements was also intended to anticipate a milestone event coming up on the Korean Peninsula: the anniversary on Saturday of the birth of Kim Il-sung, North Korea’s founder and the grandfather of the country’s current leader, Kim Jong-un.”
U.S. Pacific Command signaled that the purpose of redirecting the ship was related to North Korea’s frequent provocations, which include multiple missile launches in recent weeks.
“U.S. Pacific Command ordered the Carl Vinson Strike Group north as a prudent measure to maintain readiness and presence in the Western Pacific,” said Commander Dave Benham, “The number one threat in the region continues to be North Korea, due to its reckless, irresponsible and destabilizing program of missile tests and pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability.”
April 11:
Secretary of Defense James Mattis downplayed the Vinson’s movements, stating that the ships deployment was not intended as a show of force.
“There’s not a specific demand signal or specific reason we’re sending her up there,” Mattis said at a press conference, adding, “She’s stationed in the Western Pacific for a reason. She operates freely up and down the Pacific, and she’s on her way up there because that’s where we thought it was most prudent to have her at this time.”
Mattis also mentioned that the Vinson would not be taking part in joint exercises with Australia; however, Voice of America, citing military officials, later reported that the exercises would still be held, but on an accelerated basis — signaling that perhaps the carrier could still get up north in time for North Korea’s big day.
“It would be unlikely the Vinson [carrier strike group] wouldn’t arrive before the April 15 Day of the Sun, the annual holiday that celebrates the birth of North Korea founder Kim il-Sung,” USNI News reported.
3RA1N1AC
00110110 00111001
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2008
- Messages
- 20,918
- Likes
- 5,168
- Points
- 113
I see ZERO reason why this thread isnt viable. Yalls boy appears to be a pants shitting dementia case. Is the oldest president to ever take office senile? Is the old guy who rambles incoherently about nonsense possibly miles past his mental prime? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe not. But nobody is allowed to talk about that?
Even the most ardent maga trump fanboi has to admit that it is at least possible. And if it is possible, then it makes perfect sense to talk about it.
Puh leez.
Even the most ardent maga trump fanboi has to admit that it is at least possible. And if it is possible, then it makes perfect sense to talk about it.
Puh leez.
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
Anything's possible, but puh leez he's clearly not, and clearly has political enemies who will make any claim at all regardless of truth.
Trump is about a year older than Clinton.
Trump is about a year older than Clinton.
3RA1N1AC
00110110 00111001
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2008
- Messages
- 20,918
- Likes
- 5,168
- Points
- 113
how is he "clearly not"? dude for real talks like a rambling geezer.
and nobody on here gives a shit about clinton at this point except you. if she was president id be saying the exact same things about her.
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
A few points here. First, Psychology is not a hard science so there's going to be greater disagreement among practitioners than in, y'know, Physics. So it would be easy to find one Psychologist who would diagnose Trump as X and another who would say not-X. After all, they even use different manuals depending on where in the world you are (DSM-V predominates in North America but not Europe).
Second, this thread is a grab bag. I've suggested both that Trump is a narcissist and that he's got dementia. These are related only in that they are things that affect the brain. One would be pretty much lifelong, the other would be steadily getting worse, and an expert on one is unlikely to be an expert on the other (which is less a "psychological" condition than a physical one that manifests in behavior and speech).
Third, the point that you cite above is more a normative restriction on official diagnoses. As official diagnoses can have major effects on the lives of people so diagnosed (jobs and so forth) then psychologists are under an ethical, professional duty to be super-cautious in giving official diagnoses. Does that mean that most Psychologists believe that they can't assign an unofficial diagnosis to somebody who's lived his life in public for decades like Trump, of whom we have thousands of hours of behavior on film/tape? Of course not! We have more material for making a diagnosis of Trump than we do of practically any of the patients that psychologists actually diagnose!
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
I am fully supportive of Hillary's walking in the woods activities! Go Hillary! Walk long and proud!
3RA1N1AC
00110110 00111001
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2008
- Messages
- 20,918
- Likes
- 5,168
- Points
- 113
as any "I AM NOT A TRUMP FAN" would obviously state, if anyone says negative things about trump, they have an agenda, and whatever they say is worthless. if they say positive things about trump, then they are just objectively seeing that trump is rad, because he is.
riverman
Writing Team
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2013
- Messages
- 68,739
- Likes
- 68,114
- Points
- 113
Hillary is burned out...has been for a long time....but Trump is certifiably looney tunes....mix that with pathological liar and long history of bad behavior ....you don't need to be a psychologist to see through Trump like a glass of water...I get that conservatives are grasping for reasons to keep the liberals from having any clout...and they really don't in Washington these days....I'm counting on some rational Republicans to keep some sort of damage control because Trump is flailing from within'.....the msg from our white house is...nobody's home...
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 127,349
- Likes
- 147,874
- Points
- 115
Notice how Trump keeps tightening his inner circle. More family. More people who won't speak out about him and will shield him.
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Remember: Psychologists often face moral dilemmas. There are famous cases where patients have said to their therapist that they have murderous thoughts and the psychologist has to decide if the danger to the public trumps the patient's right of confidentiality. I think there are cases where this happened, the therapist kept quiet, the patient killed someone, and the therapist was sued.
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Soon Jared Kushner will have ALL the jobs.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 127,349
- Likes
- 147,874
- Points
- 115
According to Denny, Reagan was also unfairly slammed by the media. He was 100% there mentally up until the very day he died.
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Except for when Iran Contra was going on. That's when he had temporary blackouts.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 127,349
- Likes
- 147,874
- Points
- 115
Ron Jr is a liberal. Can't trust anything he says.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2008
- Messages
- 127,349
- Likes
- 147,874
- Points
- 115
The Professional Fan
Big League Scrub
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2008
- Messages
- 9,851
- Likes
- 6,746
- Points
- 113
This is.......incredible
Rastapopoulos
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2008
- Messages
- 42,807
- Likes
- 27,117
- Points
- 113
Trump will get Congress to investigate that right after they've finished investigating the Obama wiretap of Trump Tower and the 5 million illegal votes.
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
He doesn't talk like a rambling geezer. It seems you haven't watched him talk.
Clinton was the alternative, but nobody would have talked about her dementia, no matter how bad it was.
- Joined
- May 24, 2007
- Messages
- 73,117
- Likes
- 10,950
- Points
- 113
It reminds me of how stupid this thread is and it should have been done a long time ago.
Just fort the utter silliness and stupidity of it all.
Similar threads
