Its hard to talk when you're teabaggin- Anderson Cooper

[barfo]

So . . . a basketball team is just like the most powerful country in the world? Great analogy!!

Isn't your degree in literature? I wasn't comparing the Blazers to America, I was comparing false fans to false patriots.

And what's that word "just" doing in there? Hmm?

barfo

 

[maxiep]

That's like wishing for the Blazers to lose because Frye is your favorite player and they leave him on the bench.

Someone who wishes that the Blazers lose isn't really a fan of the Blazers.

barfo

As much as President Obama believes it's all about him, it's about the country. And if you wish to use your allegory, it's more like we hired K*be, Phil, Odom and Sasha for the Blazers, rooted for them and then found out they were wearing L*ker jerseys underneath their Blazer ones. They may have the facade of Blazers, but they were L*kers all along.

President Obama admires people we spent fifty years fighting and an economic policy that shows itself to make the populace poorer in the interest of equality. He's a Trojan Horse.

 

[maxiep]

Depends on what you mean by 'fail'. If by 'fail' you mean 'not happen', then I don't have a problem with it.
If by 'fail' you mean 'happen but bring disastrous consequences', then I think that's just wishing ill on the team.

Since Obama is in fact already President, it seems to me that wishing for him to fail is closer to the latter than the former.

barfo

So, you believe it's a good thing to permanently increase the size and scope of our government? You believe it's a good thing to triple the size of our National debt? You believe it's a good thing to cozy up to people like Chavez? You believe it's a good thing to disincentivize the achievers in this society? You believe it's a good thing to reward the freeriders of society?

It seems to me you care more about Obama the person succeeding than you care about the future of this country.

 

[maxiep]

Isn't your degree in literature? I wasn't comparing the Blazers to America, I was comparing false fans to false patriots.

And what's that word "just" doing in there? Hmm?

barfo

I remember your posts when President Bush was in office. When you clearly stood against him and his policies, did you want America to fail then? How do you reconcile your two perspectives?

 

[barfo]

As much as President Obama believes it's all about him, it's about the country. And if you wish to use your allegory, it's more like we hired K*be, Phil, Odom and Sasha for the Blazers, rooted for them and then found out they were wearing L*ker jerseys underneath their Blazer ones. They may have the facade of Blazers, but they were L*kers all along.

It's more like you insisting that Roy, LMA, and Oden are Lakers. They aren't as far as I can see, but I'll keep my eye on them for signs of Laker-ness.

President Obama admires people we spent fifty years fighting and an economic policy that shows itself to make the populace poorer in the interest of equality. He's a Trojan Horse.

When does the horse open up to spill out the soldiers? So far the horse has behaved exactly like a horse, and it has been inside the city walls for 3 months now.

barfo

 

[barfo]

I remember your posts when President Bush was in office. When you clearly stood against him and his policies, did you want America to fail then? How do you reconcile your two perspectives?

No, I didn't want America to fail. I was certainly against his policies and wanted him out of office, but I don't believe I ever said anything like "I want Bush's America to fail". Why would anyone want their own country to fail?

barfo

 

[maxiep]

No, I didn't want America to fail. I was certainly against his policies and wanted him out of office, but I don't believe I ever said anything like "I want Bush's America to fail". Why would anyone want their own country to fail?

barfo

Oh, dear. I thought you were being serious, but now I see you're just trying to parse words. You may not have said the exact words, but you wanted "Bush's America" to fail. You wanted him chastised for the Iraq War, you were against the Patriot Act, you wanted Guantanimo closed, and you disagreed with almost all of his domestic social positions. If that's not wanting "Bush's America" to fail, I don't know what is. Clearly, Obama personifies this country for you, I see it now. Do you wish for his set of policy prescriptions to be enacted? Separate the man and the country. That's a simpler question.

 

[barfo]

Oh, dear. I thought you were being serious, but now I see you're just trying to parse words.

No, I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say they want "Obama's America" to fail.

You may not have said the exact words, but you wanted "Bush's America" to fail.

Not the way I understand those words.

You wanted him chastised for the Iraq War, you were against the Patriot Act, you wanted Guantanimo closed, and you disagreed with almost all of his domestic social positions.

That's true. But I didn't want to have them have terrible consequences for the country. If they were going to be enacted, I'd rather they work out splendidly.

If that's not wanting "Bush's America" to fail, I don't know what is.

If all that is meant is that someone disagrees with the policy positions, then why not just say that instead of saying you want Obama's America to fail? The former seems much more straightforward. The latter suggests, at least to me, that one wants bad things to happen to the country so that there is 'proof' that the policies were bad.

Clearly, Obama personifies this country for you, I see it now.

In the sense that Presidents always do. In the same way that Bush personified the country. No more and no less.

Do you wish for his set of policy prescriptions to be enacted? Separate the man and the country. That's a simpler question.

I am generally in support of his policies, as you know. But whatever polices are enacted, his, yours, or someone else's, I hope they succeed.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

When does the horse open up to spill out the soldiers? So far the horse has behaved exactly like a horse, and it has been inside the city walls for 3 months now.

barfo

Really?

You purposely supported Obama for over a year, through all of the primaries knowing that he would quadruple our deficit, run our national debt to over 80% of our GDP, and NOT pull out and end the Iraq war?

Really?

 

[maxiep]

No, I'm trying to understand what people mean when they say they want "Obama's America" to fail.



Not the way I understand those words.



That's true. But I didn't want to have them have terrible consequences for the country. If they were going to be enacted, I'd rather they work out splendidly.



If all that is meant is that someone disagrees with the policy positions, then why not just say that instead of saying you want Obama's America to fail? The former seems much more straightforward. The latter suggests, at least to me, that one wants bad things to happen to the country so that there is 'proof' that the policies were bad.



In the sense that Presidents always do. In the same way that Bush personified the country. No more and no less.



I am generally in support of his policies, as you know. But whatever polices are enacted, his, yours, or someone else's, I hope they succeed.

barfo

So, this comes down to a semantic debate for you? What a waste of time.

Stand up for what you believe rather than trying to hide behind cute debating tricks.

 

[barfo]

So, this comes down to a semantic debate for you? What a waste of time.

Stand up for what you believe rather than trying to hide behind cute debating tricks.

I think that is a mischaracterization, but whatever. If people want to go around saying they want the country to fail, they should expect people to question it.

I don't know what you think I'm trying to hide. I've been pretty open about my views.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Really?

You purposely supported Obama for over a year, through all of the primaries knowing that he would quadruple our deficit, run our national debt to over 80% of our GDP, and NOT pull out and end the Iraq war?

Really?

No one knows what the future holds, so no, I didn't know about any of the events of the past year ahead of time.
No, I'm not in favor of the country having an economic crisis. But I don't blame Obama for it, either.

barfo

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

So, you believe it's a good thing to permanently increase the size and scope of our government? You believe it's a good thing to triple the size of our National debt? You believe it's a good thing to cozy up to people like Chavez? You believe it's a good thing to disincentivize the achievers in this society? You believe it's a good thing to reward the freeriders of society?

It seems to me you care more about Obama the person succeeding than you care about the future of this country.

Way to typify what the argument in American politics has been reduced to. I actually thought you were more intelligent than this.

 

[maxiep]

I think that is a mischaracterization, but whatever. If people want to go around saying they want the country to fail, they should expect people to question it.

I don't know what you think I'm trying to hide. I've been pretty open about my views.

barfo

Who is saying they want the country to fail? I oppose the massive expansion of government and concomitant increase in our deficit and debt precisely because I believe it's a road to failure. I want President Obama's attempt to implement these policies to fail.

 

[maxiep]

Way to typify what the argument in American politics has been reduced to. I actually thought you were more intelligent than this.

Okay, does President Obama not support all of these policies? I don't see how stating what President Obama is trying to do as "reducing" the argument. To me, selling a bullshit line of "Hope" and "Change" is reducing the argument.

 

[boatsandstars]

Who is saying they want the country to fail? I oppose the massive expansion of government and concomitant increase in our deficit and debt precisely because I believe it's a road to failure. I want President Obama's attempt to implement these policies to fail.

then you are a child, or have the mind of a child.

you don't want someone else's idea to work? believing it won't work and and hoping a opposing idea will fail say different things about your maturity level. sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

 

[blazerboy30]

then you are a child, or have the mind of a child.

you don't want someone else's idea to work? believing it won't work and and hoping a opposing idea will fail say different things about your maturity level. sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

You're very confused and don't understand.

There is no question that Obama's ideas will "work" in that they will work to distribute wealth, reward the freeloaders, tax the achievers, and quadruple our deficit.

Ideas "working", and something being best for the country can be entirely different things. In the case of Obamas ideas, they are.

 

[Shooter]

You're very confused and don't understand.

There is no question that Obama's ideas will "work" in that they will work to distribute wealth, reward the freeloaders, tax the achievers, and quadruple our deficit.

Ideas "working", and something being best for the country can be entirely different things. In the case of Obamas ideas, they are.

Well-said. Props to you.

 

[maxiep]

then you are a child, or have the mind of a child.

you don't want someone else's idea to work? believing it won't work and and hoping a opposing idea will fail say different things about your maturity level. sounds like you have some self-esteem issues.

Okay. Thanks for your opinion. Did you get that degree in psychology from watching Dr. Phil?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Okay, does President Obama not support all of these policies? I don't see how stating what President Obama is trying to do as "reducing" the argument. To me, selling a bullshit line of "Hope" and "Change" is reducing the argument.

The key to an argument is have more than one side, dude. I was responding to your post because of the post you responded to. Once again, you have chosen not to debate a perfectly rational argument. Instead, you choose to blow things totally out of proportion in order to avoid have to talk about what was actually said.

This is a typical tactic on both sides, and, if I may speak scientifically, is totally fucking retarded.

 

[bodyman5001]

I don't want to read this whole thread, and I may be covering something too old but anyhoo.

Using an analogy based upon my job.

If I see a bodyman trying to weld an aluminum suspension component with a mig welder designed for steel, I would want him to fail miserably. Why?

Because if he somehow managed to get it to stay together long enough to install on the car, someone would die on the freeway when the suspension piece literally falls apart.

If I told him that it was a bad idea and he didn't believe me, what should I do? He is the one working on that car, he is the one responsible for it. However, when the customer dies and my shop goes under due to a lawsuit or bad press, then what should I have done?

Wanting him to fail doesn't mean I want someone to die. It means I want things to be done right.

 

[maxiep]

The key to an argument is have more than one side, dude. I was responding to your post because of the post you responded to. Once again, you have chosen not to debate a perfectly rational argument. Instead, you choose to blow things totally out of proportion in order to avoid have to talk about what was actually said.

This is a typical tactic on both sides, and, if I may speak scientifically, is totally fucking retarded.

Wow, your brilliance and ability to rise above things like facts and logic are almost equal to The Messiah himself. Or, in the words of Ron Burgundy, hoojacks, you're so wise...like a miniature Buddah, covered in hair.

 

[barfo]

I don't want to read this whole thread, and I may be covering something too old but anyhoo.

Using an analogy based upon my job.

If I see a bodyman trying to weld an aluminum suspension component with a mig welder designed for steel, I would want him to fail miserably. Why?

Because if he somehow managed to get it to stay together long enough to install on the car, someone would die on the freeway when the suspension piece literally falls apart.

If I told him that it was a bad idea and he didn't believe me, what should I do? He is the one working on that car, he is the one responsible for it. However, when the customer dies and my shop goes under due to a lawsuit or bad press, then what should I have done?

Wanting him to fail doesn't mean I want someone to die. It means I want things to be done right.

Sure. But what if you, being an expert bodyman, walked into a hospital. Would you want the surgeon to fail because he wasn't operating the way you expected?

barfo

 

[maxiep]

Sure. But what if you, being an expert bodyman, walked into a hospital. Would you want the surgeon to fail because he wasn't operating the way you expected?

barfo

I'd want another surgeon who wouldn't kill the patient, or I'd like the surgeon to accept that he has no idea what he's doing.

 

[barfo]

I'd want another surgeon who wouldn't kill the patient, or I'd like the surgeon to accept that he has no idea what he's doing.

Exactly my point. You think you can tell whether a surgeon knows what he's doing. But being an expert in one field doesn't make you an expert in everything.

barfo

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Wow, your brilliance and ability to rise above things like facts and logic are almost equal to The Messiah himself. Or, in the words of Ron Burgundy, hoojacks, you're so wise...like a miniature Buddah, covered in hair.

In your world, "facts" are subjective statements like "Obama disincentivizes the achievers in this society" and "rewards the freeriders of society" while "logic" is using those two arguments to debate something entirely unrelated (barfo's thoughts on the meaning of "to fail" while used in the context teabaggers.)

Blah blah blah Messiah socialism tax party road to serfdom blahhhhhh

 

[Denny Crane]

You're right in saying you don't get it.

The debt is already there.

To put it simply, you saved money in the bank for your son's food and clothing for the next few decades.

Banker Bush stole it. Assuming you don't plan on letting him starve or die from exposure, you will have to replace that which Bush stole from you/your son's future care.

Banker Obama, who had nothing to do with this theft, has arranged the financing so your son will not die.

If you blame Banker Obama for the debt, you are either a very confused individual, or an ungrateful ass.

So if you have $100 charged on your charge card, it makes sense to go charge it up to the $25K limit?

Or do you think borrowing our way out of debt is going to work?

Back to the subject.

Schuster's piece full of innuendo was a pretty good example of why I am a former fan of MSNBC.

One of the claims made was that these same republicans didn't care about Bush's spending but somehow now do care about the spending when it's Obama doing it. Look at Bush's approval ratings in office. They don't get that low if republicans blindly agree with anything he does, good or bad. One of the primary reasons republicans bailed on him was the spending. Go figure.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're very confused and don't understand.

There is no question that Obama's ideas will "work" in that they will work to distribute wealth, reward the freeloaders, tax the achievers, and quadruple our deficit.

Ideas "working", and something being best for the country can be entirely different things. In the case of Obamas ideas, they are.

They only work for a while.

I recently read a story about a college professor and his class. I may not get this entirely right, but the gist is right.

One of the students stood up and asked him why Socialism was a bad thing. So the prof suggested an experiment: he'd give the students all the same grade, the average score of all the students. When the first test came around, the folks scraping by with D's were pleased with their B's. By the end of the course, everyone was getting D's.

I'd leave it up to the reader to figure out why, but I probably have to spell it out. The people who got the A's that raised everyone's grades figured out that they were working their asses off to get a lesser grade and to benefit people who didn't work very hard at it at all and were satisfied with the D's.

 

[Denny Crane]

Exactly my point. You think you can tell whether a surgeon knows what he's doing. But being an expert in one field doesn't make you an expert in everything.

barfo

Exactly my point. You think you can tell whether a surgeon knows what he's doing. But being an expert in community organizing doesn't make you qualified to be president.

barfo

Fixed it for you.