It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (mine)

[Nikolokolus]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

But never answered my question about what if he signs for less somewhere else? I mean Portland does hold the keys to give Greg the best possible deal; therefor, if another team offers him "X" contract; we match or beat and Oden just leaves; then it turns right back around on this "Millions of dollars are at stake for Oden" you keep mentioning.

We don't know what he's going to be offered, so until and unless he actually does leave for less money than the Blazers offer him, why don't we just ease up off the gas on panic-mobile. Hypothetically speaking, if he leaves for less money then I would assume that he really, really needed a change of scenery, but I won't speculate about his motives because we don't even know if that's an option from his perspective.

Well I'm really glad you think I'm miserable. In fact, I think you are extremely far off on that concept. And if you think all businesses work in this manner, then I suspect you aren't truly a business man. Players will stay in a city when they feel the love. Just like Pryzbilla taking less to stay in Portland. You act like everyone are robots and you just make the "economically feasible" decision without thinking about the "moral compass". Now that is miserable. LOL

Apparently you're too emotional to talk about this topic rationally right now. In any case I never said you were miserable, I just think the idea of owners holding all the cards is an incredibly antiquated and draconian point of view -- apparently the NBA players association agrees with me, which is why they operate in a free agency system.

Secondly, your assertion that Joel took less is flat out wrong. The Blazers were the top bidder for his services when he was a free agent a few years back; he didn't stay here out of the goodness of his heart (though maybe that was a factor?) he stayed because it was the best financial arrangement and playing arrangement for he and his family. And lastly, it's got fuck all to do with a "moral compass." There's nothing inherently moral or ethical about choosing where you would like to be employed when the rules of your collective bargaining agreement give the right to make that choice.

 

[e_blazer]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

The Blazers could have offered him an extension last summer, even if it was just symbolic. Instead, Cho and the Gang decided to play hardball. I can see how Oden could feel betrayed. He was the first #1 overall pick since Kwame Brown to not get a contract extension after his 3rd year. The Blazers could have at least offered a contract comparable to Bargnani's (5years/$55 million), with team or player options to protect both sides. They didn't, they rolled the dice, and now they may pay for their decision. Those blaming Oden for leaving, if that happens, should also blame Cho and the Gang for botching lasting summer and wounding Oden's pride.

As I understand it from what was reported at the time, it was mutually agreed by Oden's camp and the Blazers that they wouldn't enter into negotiations on an extension last fall. This makes sense, I think, since the Blazers didn't know how Oden was going to return from his injury and didn't want to offer a big contract absent proof he would be the player that was worth the money. Oden didn't want to look at a lower priced contract since he hoped his play this season would establish him as being worth a maximum deal. Both parties knew that if Oden's play warranted a maximum offer the CBA would allow the Blazers to make Greg a maximum qualifying offer prior to June 30th in addition to just submitting a qualifying offer. I don't think either side was upset by the lack of an extension, but rather wanted to establish a case for determining Greg's worth before entering into a long term deal. Unfortunately, Greg's subsequent injury and microfracture surgery prevented any of that from happening. Now an offer will have to be made without knowing what Greg is going to be capable of.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

As I understand it from what was reported at the time, it was mutually agreed by Oden's camp and the Blazers that they wouldn't enter into negotiations on an extension last fall. This makes sense, I think, since the Blazers didn't know how Oden was going to return from his injury and didn't want to offer a big contract absent proof he would be the player that was worth the money. Oden didn't want to look at a lower priced contract since he hoped his play this season would establish him as being worth a maximum deal. Both parties knew that if Oden's play warranted a maximum offer the CBA would allow the Blazers to make Greg a maximum qualifying offer prior to June 30th in addition to just submitting a qualifying offer. I don't think either side was upset by the lack of an extension, but rather wanted to establish a case for determining Greg's worth before entering into a long term deal. Unfortunately, Greg's subsequent injury and microfracture surgery prevented any of that from happening. Now an offer will have to be made without knowing what Greg is going to be capable of.

What I'm saying is that the Blazers could have made an offer, and they did not. Oden could have always rejected an offer, but at least the Blazers could say they made him a fair offer. If the rumors are right, and they are willing to pay for $40 million over 3 or 4 years after another lost season due to injury, they could have made a similar offer last summer. At that point, if Oden rejected it, then deal with it. The problem with not making an offer then is that it could be used as leverage, or even poison Greg's view of the franchise, this summer.

Just an incredibly dumb mistake by Cho and the Gang, IMO. A mutual agreement with Oden's camp doesn't mean much, since whether or not to offer an extension was a one-sided decision solely held by the Blazers. Make a fair offer, and if Oden's camp refuses it, at least you don't take the risk of souring Camp Oden on the Blazer front office.

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

why does their have to be 'Camps'? Everything that I've heard from Miller and G.O. over the past year points them agreeing on the fact that G.O. needs to get back into shape before they sign any deals. AGAIN, Crapzano reaching for Drama!

In the end, Oden Stays with the Blazers not because he owes the team, but because he sees the possibility of our greatness with him, MARK MY WORD

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Just an incredibly dumb mistake by Cho and the Gang, IMO. A mutual agreement with Oden's camp doesn't mean much, since whether or not to offer an extension was a one-sided decision solely held by the Blazers. Make a fair offer, and if Oden's camp refuses it, at least you don't take the risk of souring Camp Oden on the Blazer front office.

IMO it's incredibly dumb to make assumptions based on your feelings.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

why does their have to be 'Camps'? Everything that I've heard from Miller and G.O. over the past year points them agreeing on the fact that G.O. needs to get back into shape before they sign any deals. AGAIN, Crapzano reaching for Drama!

In the end, Oden Stays with the Blazers not because he owes the team, but because he sees the possibility of our greatness with him, MARK MY WORD

I agree with this. I just don't see any reason why Oden would leave other than his feelings getting hurt or something. So if he leaves because of that, then he was never the player I thought he was. I always thought he had some serious mental toughness. This situation would prove a "make or break" for Oden. Basically if he leaves, then he is a pussy and can't handle the pressure.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

IMO it's incredibly dumb to make assumptions based on your feelings.

I'm just offering up an opinion, and there are rumors that Oden is a bit upset about being Kwame Brown-ed last summer. I take that information into account when forming my opinion. I think the Blazers have botched a situation that didn't need to be botched. Sides can't negotiate until an initial offer is made, and apparently the Blazers didn't even make that move last summer.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I'm just offering up an opinion, and there are rumors that Oden is a bit upset about being Kwame Brown-ed last summer. I take that information into account when forming my opinion. I think the Blazers have botched a situation that didn't need to be botched. Sides can't negotiate until an initial offer is made, and apparently the Blazers didn't even make that move last summer.

He should be upset with himself then. I love how some posters in here are blaming the injuries on our medical staff. Oden will control his destiny. If he is too thinned skin to take the pressure of being the #1 pick, then so be it. Let both sides move on. I thought we drafted the strongest mental player in the draft. If he leaves because he's butt hurt, then he is a pussy that we don't need to build around.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I agree with this. I just don't see any reason why Oden would leave other than his feelings getting hurt or something. So if he leaves because of that, then he was never the player I thought he was. I always thought he had some serious mental toughness.

That's your own assumption, though. Maybe Greg cries himself to sleep every night curled up in the fetal position. Being upset at him because he many be not what you assume him to be isn't the fault of Oden, is it?

This situation would prove a "make or break" for Oden. Basically if he leaves, then he is a pussy and can't handle the pressure.

If he stays, then he is a loyal and tough player who is a pillar of integrity.

If he leaves, then he is a "pussy" who can't handle pressure. :MARIS61:

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

He should be upset with himself then. I love how some posters in here are blaming the injuries on our medical staff. Oden will control his destiny. If he is too thinned skin to take the pressure of being the #1 pick, then so be it. Let both sides move on. I thought we drafted the strongest mental player in the draft. If he leaves because he's butt hurt, then he is a pussy that we don't need to build around.

You did? I thought all along that Durant had a killer mentality, while Greg came across as friendly and unfocused, if not aloof. Neither mattered much to me, though.

I still wanted Oden, based on his potential, but not because I thought he was some sort of freakish specimen in terms of his mental toughness. I wanted him to be a Blazer because finding a player with his potential seemed much more difficult than finding a player like Durant.

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I hate Rumors, Assumptions, and Drama.

I think Greg does too, and I know he ain't no Pussy so I think he'll stay.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

That's your own assumption, though. Maybe Greg cries himself to sleep every night curled up in the fetal position. Being upset at him because he many be not what you assume him to be isn't the fault of Oden, is it?

Maybe he is and maybe he is just a mental midget that needs mommy to call him everyday and say "You will always be my allstar baby!"

If he stays, then he is a loyal and tough player who is a pillar of integrity.

If he leaves, then he is a "pussy" who can't handle pressure. :MARIS61:

Absofuckinglootly. Champions require mental toughness; especially from your power player. B-Roy is a former shell of himself and received way more critism than Oden. Roy still believes he can start and Roy is a warrior. We need more players like that.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Oden the most mentally strong player in the draft?! What!? There were numerous reports around the draft that teams weren't sure if he loved basketball (the sport picked him, not the other way around). Just because you thought he was something different than he is (or might be?) doesn't make him a pussy if he leaves and it doesn't mean he necessarily "hates" the fans or the city if he leaves or that he doesn't want to be great.

In any case I'm done debating this until it comes to pass, there's a lot of variables that have be sorted out between now and his potential unrestricted free agency and passing judgement on a players motives before they've even made a decision (or the team for that matter) is pointless.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I hate Rumors, Assumptions, and Drama.

I think Greg does too, and I know he ain't no Pussy so I think he'll stay.

I think he ain't no pussy either. Only pussies run away from problems. Oden leaving would be running from the pressure. And that is a pussy.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Oden the most mentally strong player in the draft?! What!? There were numerous reports around the draft that teams weren't sure if he loved basketball (the sport picked him, not the other way around). Just because you thought he was something different than he is (or might be?) doesn't make him a pussy if he leaves and it doesn't mean he necessarily "hates" the fans or the city if he leaves or that he doesn't want to be great.

In any case I'm done debating this until it comes to pass, there's a lot of variables that have be sorted out between now and his potential unrestricted free agency and passing judgement on a players motives before they've even made a decision (or the team for that matter) is pointless.

Sounds good. I doubt Oden leaves. But if he does, he is a pussy. Sorry, just my opinion.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I think he ain't no pussy either. Only pussies run away from problems. Oden leaving would be running from the pressure. And that is a pussy.

It seems that you accept that there may be a problem with Oden and Portland. Some people don't have the freedom to run away from a problem, so they subject themselves to further abuse because they have no other realistic option. Oden, on the other hand, has the flexibiliity to find other options, and if he views Portland as a problem, then I don't have any issue with him finding a situation that he doesn't view as a problem.

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I hear ya Papa G but I'll add, if you run from 'your' problems cus they are yours, their only gonna follow ya, best to deal with em up front

 

[e_blazer]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

What I'm saying is that the Blazers could have made an offer, and they did not. Oden could have always rejected an offer, but at least the Blazers could say they made him a fair offer. If the rumors are right, and they are willing to pay for $40 million over 3 or 4 years after another lost season due to injury, they could have made a similar offer last summer. At that point, if Oden rejected it, then deal with it. The problem with not making an offer then is that it could be used as leverage, or even poison Greg's view of the franchise, this summer.

Just an incredibly dumb mistake by Cho and the Gang, IMO. A mutual agreement with Oden's camp doesn't mean much, since whether or not to offer an extension was a one-sided decision solely held by the Blazers. Make a fair offer, and if Oden's camp refuses it, at least you don't take the risk of souring Camp Oden on the Blazer front office.

I think you're making up a fictional slight. My take is that Oden's camp said essentially that they wanted to prove Greg was going to be worth a max contract and the Blazers were fine with that. I could be wrong, but that's pretty much the way it was reported by Quick.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I think you're making up a fictional slight. My take is that Oden's camp said essentially that they wanted to prove Greg was going to be worth a max contract and the Blazers were fine with that. I could be wrong, but that's pretty much the way it was reported by Quick.

Could be, but there are current rumors that Oden feels betrayed, so it's not like the story isn't out for public consumption. I didn't just make it up out of whole cloth, in other words. Almost everything discussed on the future or past is based on speculation and partial information, so I think I do have a valid point, though it may not be what happened. If I as a business owner definitely wanted Greg to stay with the franchise, I would have offered a very fair contract extension last summer. Instead, a "mutual agreement" leaves uncertainty on both sides of what the reasons are for that agreement, and it's not like Oden's camp could have disagreed with it. Either the Blazers make an offer last summer, or they don't. They didn't, so what exactly could Oden negotiate, since there was no initial offer?

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I hear ya Papa G but I'll add, if you run from 'your' problems cus they are yours, their only gonna follow ya, best to deal with em up front

What if Oden isn't the problem, but the situation in Portland is? Then, a smart individual would leave the problem, if other options exist.

 

[HailBlazers]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Perception is Reality my friend, and problems are generally a figment of your imagination.

Take control of the circumstances, before they take control of you! Greg's 'situation' in Portland could be flipped upside down in an instant, and things would look completely different. Time will tell.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Perception is Reality my friend, and problems are generally a figment of your imagination.

Take control of the circumstances, before they take control of you! The 'situation' in Portland could be flipped upside down in an instant.

Really? A mentally abusive relationship is a figment of one's situation? Not having enough money to keep one's home is a figment of their imagination?

I agree that problems created by someone are of their own doing. Yet, if Greg really is upset about not receiving a contract extension offer last summer, he didn't create that situation/problem, did he? You could argue that he needs to get over it, but then you're blaming him for how he feels about the genesis of a 'problem' that he didn't asked to be created.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Really? A mentally abusive relationship is a figment of one's situation? Not having enough money to keep one's home is a figment of their imagination?

I agree that problems created by someone are of their own doing. Yet, if Greg really is upset about not receiving a contract extension offer last summer, he didn't create that situation/problem, did he? You could argue that he needs to get over it, but then you're blaming him for how he feels about the genesis of a 'problem' that he didn't asked to be created.

Fucking 100% laughable? Oden has already made well over 24 million. He's not broke! Hahahaha

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Fucking 100% laughable? Oden has already made well over 24 million. He's not broke! Hahahaha

I was responding to HailBlazer's idea of "problems" in general, not how that those two examples applied to Oden. Sorry for the confusion. Some problems are very real, and are not a figment of one's imagination.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I was responding to HailBlazer's idea of "problems" in general, not how that those two examples applied to Oden. Sorry for the confusion. Some problems are very real, and are not a figment of one's imagination.

Oh okay I had it confused. I thought you were referring to "Oden" and the potential "life changing" situation of eating and living as his decision maker.

 

[Ed O]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I think that there was a TON of hand-wringing and arguing about Brandon Roy's contract situation on this board.

I think that there was a TON of hand-wringing and arguing about LaMarcus Aldridge's contract situation on this board.

And both were entirely overblown by some posters. A mountain out of a molehill, if you will.

It's possible to speculate and complain about Oden's mental makeup or about how the Portland front office is broken, but I think almost all of our guesses are going to end up being wrong and I have trouble getting too worked up about hypotheticals based on assumptions and suppositions.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

I think that there was a TON of hand-wringing and arguing about Brandon Roy's contract situation on this board.

I think that there was a TON of hand-wringing and arguing about LaMarcus Aldridge's contract situation on this board.

And both were entirely overblown by some posters. A mountain out of a molehill, if you will.

It's possible to speculate and complain about Oden's mental makeup or about how the Portland front office is broken, but I think almost all of our guesses are going to end up being wrong and I have trouble getting too worked up about hypotheticals based on assumptions and suppositions.

Ed O.

Without hand-wringing and arguing over speculatory opinions, internet message boards would cease to exist.

 

[e_blazer]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Without hand-wringing and arguing over speculatory opinions, internet message boards would cease to exist.

And would that be a bad thing?

 

[Ed O]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

Without hand-wringing and arguing over speculatory opinions, internet message boards would cease to exist.

That's not true. We have games that are played and those games have stats. We have prospects that have measurables (height, college stats, etc.). We have draft picks and salary cap figures and all sorts of things that have nothing to do with our speculation on whether a player feels betrayed during contract negotiations.

I'm certainly not telling anyone to shut up, but there are far more "legitimate" areas of discussion where we don't need to argue over vapor IMO.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Re: It's not their move, it's my move. Everyone says it's their move. I think it's (m

That's not true. We have games that are played and those games have stats. We have prospects that have measurables (height, college stats, etc.). We have draft picks and salary cap figures and all sorts of things that have nothing to do with our speculation on whether a player feels betrayed during contract negotiations.

I'm certainly not telling anyone to shut up, but there are far more "legitimate" areas of discussion where we don't need to argue over vapor IMO.

Ed O.

Yet even those threads devolve into subjective bickering about which stats matter, and which stats don't, which is also speculatory arguing in nature.

Thanks for expressing your opinion on what we should post about, though.

Also, a quote from Oden given as the thread title isn't "vapor", is it? Posters seems to be debating what those words mean, as well as the past decisions and future implications of the uncertainty surrounding Greg Oden.

Weird thing to complain about, Ed. Oh well...