I've seen Bird, Magic, Jordan, & Kobe play, IMO LeBron is the G.O.A.T

[Reep]

nope.

Lebron's numbers and record in closeout games is nothing to sneeze at. We're not talking about Darius Miles here.

This guy always shows up. I can count on one hand the number of playoff games when he supposedly got shut down. Most of them coming as a young guy with no help in CLE and once against DAL. Even in that one series where everyone says he quit in 2010 against BOS before his departure to the Heat, he was dominant. 8 straight finals appearances. And has never lost a first round series. He just had 40+ in every win in this previous series in year 15. This is greatness. MJ never had a reign this long.

Also, did Jordan ever face a team as good as GSW?

It's hard to compare teams across generations, but the L@kers, Celtics and Pistons of that era where nothing to sneeze at.

LeBron is a great player. Let me put it this way, if you could put MJ's drive into LeBron, and the reverse, LeBron would be better than he is now, and MJ would be worse. You can argue which is more important. No doubt LeBron is a physical specimen, but MJ was better at the mental side of the game. I also think MJ was better at motivating his teammates.

 

[Reep]

My personal opinion? It's too hard to tell which one was the most magnificent, Jordan or LeBron. But you could throw in some others like Chamberlain and Jabbar.

And let's not forget Russell.

 

[Reep]

Yep, and he was awesome.

Yes, but I wasn't asking you. I know you are old.

 

[calvin natt]

I'm not really old enough to "remember" most of these guys, but I do watch a lot of classic basketball games. I think this conversation is hard to have for a bunch of reasons. I think All round basketball Players, Lebron, Magic, and Oscar Robinson were the best. The best scorers were Kareem and Michael Jordan. The thing is I believe Michael is the best ever and Kareem is number two. The reason why I don't think I would have Lebron as the best (but probably top 5), is that there have been a lot of years in Lebrons prime where he wasn't the best player in the NBA that year. KD, Westbrook, even Harden this year and Steph Curry have had individual years where their numbers have been better than his. When Jordan figured out how to win and finally got past Detroit, he was at that point the best player in the NBA every single year (unless we count the Washington wizards stint). Lebron has definitely been in the top 3-4 players every year for longer than Jordan was. Then their is Kareem, who literally had the most unstoppable shot in the history of basketball, everyone knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it. All in all my personal list the argument starts at 3, and who knows Lebron has a couple years maybe he wins a couple more and he goes up the list.

I actually think Lebron is in fact the best player in the league every year, going back a decade or so. But other guys get awards. I think Popovich is the best coach in the league going on 15 years and he doesn't win Coach of the Year.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I actually think Lebron is in fact the best player in the league every year, going back a decade or so. But other guys get awards. I think Popovich is the best coach in the league going on 15 years and he doesn't win Coach of the Year.

I don't know what I think of Pop's to be honest. I mean he's obviously good and has adjusted as the league has adjusted. Sure helps to have David Robinson get hurt, then come back and get a top 2-3 power forward of all time, then to get the best 6th man of all time in Manu, and to have a HoF pg in Parker. Obviously he's a really good coach, but sheesh. Also I don't know, there have been some crazy impressive years lately in the NBA Steph Curry deserved the MVP's (he's legit the best pure shooter that's ever played, and you can argue that but no one's putting him down very many pegs) Westbrook for as much as I really find him annoying has averaged triple doubles. Harden also annoying but really impressive. When MJ was at the top there were other HoF talents, other really good players, but no one was confused about who was the best player that year, and if they were MJ would be sure to humiliate said player...

 

[calvin natt]

I don't know what I think of Pop's to be honest. I mean he's obviously good and has adjusted as the league has adjusted. Sure helps to have David Robinson get hurt, then come back and get a top 2-3 power forward of all time, then to get the best 6th man of all time in Manu, and to have a HoF pg in Parker. Obviously he's a really good coach, but sheesh. Also I don't know, there have been some crazy impressive years lately in the NBA Steph Curry deserved the MVP's (he's legit the best pure shooter that's ever played, and you can argue that but no one's putting him down very many pegs) Westbrook for as much as I really find him annoying has averaged triple doubles. Harden also annoying but really impressive. When MJ was at the top there were other HoF talents, other really good players, but no one was confused about who was the best player that year, and if they were MJ would be sure to humiliate said player...

I think Pop is the best, maybe ever. Yes he had HOFers, every great coach does. How many guys leave the Spurs and are better....none. In fact, he gets more out of average/bad NBA guys than anyone I can remember. He has a system that has dominated the league for almost 20 years, 5 titles, over 50 wins every single season, its incredible. I'm not sure if guys like Parker and Ginobili have the careers they have had without him. If Parker spends 18 years in Sacramento or Atlanta is he HOF? How he got Duncan, I don't care. Once he got him, he created the best franchise in the NBA, hands down.

 

[dviss1]

I see your strategy. If you pick this cottonfield several times per day, you may make this thread last all summer.

 

[Lanny]

Yes, but I wasn't asking you. I know you are old.

My bad, I thought this thread was open to everyone.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm sure this is what he was referring to:

Fun fact: I spent the summer of 1980 on the assembly line at the Allis-Chalmers factory installing and testing the electrical wiring harnesses on these babies.

 

[Reep]

My bad, I thought this thread was open to everyone.

It is, but sometimes posters have discussions in the middle of threads dealing with specific topics within the content of the thread. Next time I will make sure to address the person directly, even though I quoted them. It will make it simpler to follow.

 

[Lanny]

It is, but sometimes posters have discussions in the middle of threads dealing with specific topics within the content of the thread. Next time I will make sure to address the person directly, even though I quoted them. It will make it simpler to follow.

Still, all threads in this forum are open to all. There is no such thing as a private discussion.

 

[Reep]

Still, all threads in this forum are open to all. There is no such thing as a private discussion.

I think you are missing my point, but I don't think there is any way to change that so I will just say "Yes, you are correct."

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Get back to us when he averages 41/8.4/6.3 in the finals - and his team wins.

Yes, LeBron is amazing. He is doing things no one has done since Jordan, but I think people here are forgetting (or maybe never knew) how great Jordan was.

BNM

LeBron put up 30/11/9 with 2.6 steals and 2.3 blocks on .494/.371/.721 shooting against the 73 win warriors... that’s more impressive than anything Jordan has done in the finals.

 

[H.C.]

The only knock I can put on LBJ is ever since the Celtics & Pistons broke up he's been playing in a conference with less than stellar talent.
The closest thing to competition came with the Pacers for a couple of years. Don't believe Toronto really challenge him at all.
If LBJ played in the West, would any of those Cavs teams gone to the finals? I don't think so.

Where MJ & Kobe played in an era where getting to the finals due to lack of competition wasn't something to be heard of.

That's really the only knock I can put on LBJ.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I still go Jordan, Kareem, than Lebron is in the argument with 2-3 others at number 3. I feel Kareem gets disrespected a lot in these conversations that dude was the closest there’s ever been to can’t stop it, you just hoped he missed.
All these players are great obviously, though Of the ones mentioned Lebron is probably the one I find most annoying to watch. I find watching Lebron just not fun, but he’s still pretty amazing though.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Jordan did not play AI till he was nearly 34 yrs old. His Bulls still consistently won, only losing to the 76ers once during their matchups. Was 34+ MJ's prime?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Jordan did not play AI till he was nearly 34 yrs old. His Bulls still consistently won, only losing to the 76ers once during their matchups. Was 34+ MJ's prime?

That and Lebron consistantly doesn’t even try to play defense any more. Olidipo was Going by him pretty much every time he pretended to guard him.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Imagine Magic using Lebron's steroids...

 

[Lanny]

Imagine Magic using Lebron's steroids...

What steroids? I've never heard this brought up by anyone who's worked with him.

 

[JoshuaHall]

I'm not really old enough to "remember" most of these guys, but I do watch a lot of classic basketball games. I think this conversation is hard to have for a bunch of reasons. I think All round basketball Players, Lebron, Magic, and Oscar Robinson were the best. The best scorers were Kareem and Michael Jordan. The thing is I believe Michael is the best ever and Kareem is number two. The reason why I don't think I would have Lebron as the best (but probably top 5), is that there have been a lot of years in Lebrons prime where he wasn't the best player in the NBA that year. KD, Westbrook, even Harden this year and Steph Curry have had individual years where their numbers have been better than his. When Jordan figured out how to win and finally got past Detroit, he was at that point the best player in the NBA every single year (unless we count the Washington wizards stint). Lebron has definitely been in the top 3-4 players every year for longer than Jordan was. Then their is Kareem, who literally had the most unstoppable shot in the history of basketball, everyone knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it. All in all my personal list the argument starts at 3, and who knows Lebron has a couple years maybe he wins a couple more and he goes up the list.

There isn’t a single year LeBron wouldn’t win MVP if people weren’t tired of voting for him and he has been the best player every year of his prime. The greatness of Lebron isn’t his personal numbers. It’s the fact that he, by himself, gets the most out of every player on the court much like the entire San Antonio Spurs system. The players you just listed aren’t even close to Lebron. Put them on the Cavs and see how far they get... not far.

Oddly enough, you left out the one somewhat legitimate case of a player even coming close to his realm... Derrick Rose, who he straight locked up in the playoffs when he did.

 

[JoshuaHall]

The only knock I can put on LBJ is ever since the Celtics & Pistons broke up he's been playing in a conference with less than stellar talent.
The closest thing to competition came with the Pacers for a couple of years. Don't believe Toronto really challenge him at all.
If LBJ played in the West, would any of those Cavs teams gone to the finals? I don't think so.

Where MJ & Kobe played in an era where getting to the finals due to lack of competition wasn't something to be heard of.

That's really the only knock I can put on LBJ.

As I recall during the Kobe years, it was pretty well documented whoever came out of the West was going to win against whoever came out of the East; Iverson’s Sixers, for instance.

West was typically Lakers, Kings, Blazers I feel...

Wasn’t a ton of parity in Jordan’s years, even when he left, the Bulls still won 50+ games. In fact, I don’t think Jordan had a consistent challenger in the East in the 90’s. The last I can think of would’ve been the Pistons. The 80s were brutal. 90s, when Jordan won, not so much.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm sure this is what he was referring to:

Fun fact: I spent the summer of 1980 on the assembly line at the Allis-Chalmers factory installing and testing the electrical wiring harnesses on these babies.

West Allis?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

There isn’t a single year LeBron wouldn’t win MVP if people weren’t tired of voting for him and he has been the best player every year of his prime. The greatness of Lebron isn’t his personal numbers. It’s the fact that he, by himself, gets the most out of every player on the court much like the entire San Antonio Spurs system. The players you just listed aren’t even close to Lebron. Put them on the Cavs and see how far they get... not far.

Oddly enough, you left out the one somewhat legitimate case of a player even coming close to his realm... Derrick Rose, who he straight locked up in the playoffs when he did.

How can you say Harden (who's gonna win it this year) doesn't deserve it over Lebron? I don't like Harden's game at all, but he's leading the NBA in scoring, his defense has gotten, better his assists are higher than Lebrons and he led his team to far and away the best record in the NBA, while Lebron chased away Kyrie and his team struggled all year in the mighty eastern conference?
Or that Curry didn't deserve it when he had a 50/40/90 seasons (something Lebron hasn't ever done), led his team to a crazy good record had the best PER in NBA history for a point guard, Curry makes people on his team a ton better too. They were winning before Durant showed up.

I also really question your claim Lebron gets the most out of every player on the court. No Lebron gets his, and other guys get decent shots because of how good he is, but Bosh and Kevin Love, saw their numbers and how they were perceived diminished because they had to change their entire games in order to satisfy Lebrons style of play. In fact whenever Lebron loses everyone jumps on the it's because of the talent around him bandwagon, even though he's played with just as many all-stars and other good players as anyone especially the second half of his career where he has clearly been playing coach and GM for his team.

Look no one is claiming Lebron isn't great, he is obviously up there in that list of Greatest Players of all time, I just don't believe he is the GOAT, I believe that goes to Michael, and 2nd is Kareem. Also Derrick Rose won that MVP but that was one that clearly belonged to Lebron.

 

[Boob-No-More]

West Allis?

Nope, La Porte, IN.

BNM

 

[handiman]

Oddly enough, you left out the one somewhat legitimate case of a player even coming close to his realm... Derrick Rose, who he straight locked up in the playoffs when he did.

Prime LeBron and Wade is perhaps the scariest perimeter defensive duo ever. With just either of those two go up against, Rose would have had a much better chance.

 

[blue9]

Jordan lead his team to 72, 69 and 62 regular season wins in those three years and three (more) championships.

And that was back when the EC had more than 1-2 decent teams!

 

[blue9]

Right, if you choose to ignore the entire rest of the 1992 (and only true) Dream Team, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Jason Kidd, Dominique Wilkins, Isiah Thomas, etc.

BNM

Scrubs!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Of debatable significance: the first year jordan left to play baseball, the bulls won 55 games without him. pippen averaged 22/8.7/5.6 with almost 3 steals a game.

just guessing, but without Lebron, the cavs would have been lucky to win 25 this year.

 

[H.C.]

As I recall during the Kobe years, it was pretty well documented whoever came out of the West was going to win against whoever came out of the East; Iverson’s Sixers, for instance.

West was typically Lakers, Kings, Blazers I feel...

Wasn’t a ton of parity in Jordan’s years, even when he left, the Bulls still won 50+ games. In fact, I don’t think Jordan had a consistent challenger in the East in the 90’s. The last I can think of would’ve been the Pistons. The 80s were brutal. 90s, when Jordan won, not so much.

Hey thanks for repeating what I said about the Kobe era.
You only forgot a few teams. Utah, Sonics, Spurs, Mavs.
But hey it's cool. I'm used to people on this site by now throwing shit on a wall and hoping it sticks.

If you really think Toronto, Indiana, Wiz, Celtics... Are stronger competition today.
Than the 90's teams(celtics, pistons, cavs, knicks, pacers, heat, magic)
Then I laugh at your post.
Consistent challenger doesn't matter. These few teams I listed were all better than the current teams in the East LBJ has to face.
The merefact that the STACKED Bulls still won 50 games without MJ only to be eliminated in the 2nd round shows this.
Laughter at your post.

 

[handiman]

Of debatable significance: the first year jordan left to play baseball, the bulls won 55 games without him. pippen averaged 22/8.7/5.6 with almost 3 steals a game.

just guessing, but without Lebron, the cavs would have been lucky to win 25 this year.

And they're barely a 2nd round team in the East with him. The better question is, how many games would the Cavs have won the past 3 years without him, when they had loaded rosters?