I've seen Bird, Magic, Jordan, & Kobe play, IMO LeBron is the G.O.A.T

[Orion Bailey]

Great question - and this is why I think MJ is better. I don't think Jordans teams were all that talented...Pippen,, Rodman and Kukoc and then it gets ugly. Jordan made players better, he got the most out of each player, the role players, the bench, they all did those roles extremely well. Some is on MJ, some on Phil Jackson. I am not sure guys on Lebron's team do their jobs 'extremely well'. Not all his fault, but it appears from my perspective that the surrounding parts to their teams look different - MJs look better than Lebrons.

Thanks, See I think many believe the same from LBJ.. Take away Wade, Bosch and Love ( and a couple years of Irving) and he had garbage too. So it could be stated that LBJ gets the most out of those around him as well, or takes garbage players far.

I would consider Harper/Paxon/Armstrong a better secondary core than LBJ has had. Would you? It isn't very clear though. Looks to be close by the eye test.

Also, yes. LBJ has never played for a coach like Jackson. IF LBJ had Jackson, would his role players perform better?

 

[valo36]

Thanks, See I think many believe the same from LBJ.. Take away Wade, Bosch and Love ( and a couple years of Irving) and he had garbage too. So it could be stated that LBJ gets the most out of those around him as well, or takes garbage players far.

I would consider Harper/Paxon/Armstrong a better secondary core than LBJ has had. Would you? It isn't very clear though. Looks to be close by the eye test.

Also, yes. LBJ has never played for a coach like Jackson. IF LBJ had Jackson, would his role players perform better?

I think all we need to know about Jordan's teammates we learned during the 1993-1994 season before Horace Grant left. With some guy named Pete Myers filling in for Jordan that Bulls team won 55 games, and took the Eastern Conference champion Knicks to 7 games. Those guys played some damn good ball that season without Jordan. Now obviously Jordan put them over the top into championship territory, but that was a strong playoff team without Jordan.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think all we need to know about Jordan's teammates we learned during the 1993-1994 season before Horace Grant left. With some guy named Pete Myers filling in for Jordan that Bulls team won 55 games, and took the Eastern Conference champion Knicks to 7 games. Those guys played some damn good ball that season without Jordan. Now obviously Jordan put them over the top into championship territory, but that was a strong playoff team without Jordan.

Crap. Forgot about Horace Grant Too. Yeah I think its clear that Jordan had more talent around him.

 

[calvin natt]

Thanks, See I think many believe the same from LBJ.. Take away Wade, Bosch and Love ( and a couple years of Irving) and he had garbage too. So it could be stated that LBJ gets the most out of those around him as well, or takes garbage players far.

I would consider Harper/Paxon/Armstrong a better secondary core than LBJ has had. Would you? It isn't very clear though. Looks to be close by the eye test.

Also, yes. LBJ has never played for a coach like Jackson. IF LBJ had Jackson, would his role players perform better?

I guess I don’t think Armstrong and Paxson etc were very good. BJ went to Golden State after the Bulls and was garbage (I was there). Kerr, Pax, Cartwright etc...role players.

And as for having a HOF coach - that’s the thing...would Lebron let himself get coached by an alpha dog? Or does he just want guys who let him run timeouts and make personnel decisions. As competitive and brilliant as MJ was, he let Phil coach him

 

[KingSpeed]

Lets spin it another way. Put LBJ on the Bulls team. Surrounded by Pippen, Paxon, Kerr, Cartwright, Rodman, Kucoc,etc.

I think LBJ wins just as many. If not more.

Paxson and Cartwright never played with Rodman, Kerr, and Kukoc. I don't know if you meant that or not.

 

[KingSpeed]

I only checked the last three because that was more than enough to prove you wrong. So, I didn't bother to go back any further. It wasn't necessary.



No, you were not right. You speak in absolutes, using terms like always and never:



No, they did not ALWAYS lose their Texas road trip. They won their Texas road trips three consecutive years.

BNM

You are right. My bad. But you see what I meant. Those 5 years they always lost to Houston and SA. I remember it because I hated them but I could always count on losses in Texas.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Paxson and Cartwright never played with Rodman, Kerr, and Kukoc. I don't know if you meant that or not.

And Dwade never played with Love.

I didnt. I just meant surrounded by throughout thier careers.

 

[riverman]

And Dwade never played with Love.

I didnt. I just meant surrounded by throughout thier careers.

DWade was a Cav not long ago....not sure if he and Love played on court together but they were on the same team

 

[Orion Bailey]

DWade was a Cav not long ago....not sure if he and Love played on court together but they were on the same team

If they did it was for a few games at most. That's symantics man.

Okay let me use Bosch instead.... Bosch never played with Love or Irving.

I think you are missing the point.

 

[tykendo]

I don't even think it's close.

I think the closest player to LeBron is Magic just because they both can play all 5 positions on the floor.

You put LeBron on Magic's Laker teams and he would average just as many assists.

Just an amazing player.

Totally agree. NO ONE has done more with less around him.

 

[JoshuaHall]

Hey thanks for repeating what I said about the Kobe era.
You only forgot a few teams. Utah, Sonics, Spurs, Mavs.
But hey it's cool. I'm used to people on this site by now throwing shit on a wall and hoping it sticks.

If you really think Toronto, Indiana, Wiz, Celtics... Are stronger competition today.
Than the 90's teams(celtics, pistons, cavs, knicks, pacers, heat, magic)
Then I laugh at your post.
Consistent challenger doesn't matter. These few teams I listed were all better than the current teams in the East LBJ has to face.
The merefact that the STACKED Bulls still won 50 games without MJ only to be eliminated in the 2nd round shows this.
Laughter at your post.

Kobe isn’t a player of the 90s, he was drafted in ‘96. He is a player of the ‘00s.

To illustrate my point: 55+ win teams between 96-2010.

1997 - Bulls 69 wins; Heat 61, Knicks 57 , Hawks 56
Jazz, Rockets, Seattle, Lakers
1998 Sonics, Lakers, Suns, Jazz, Spurs, Bulls, Pacers
1999 - lockout
2000 - Pacers, Blazers, Lakers
2001 - Sixers, Spurs, Lakers
2002 - Spurs, Mavs, Kings, Lakers
2003 - Spurs, Mavs, Kings
2004 - Pacers, Wolves, Spurs, Lakers
2005 - Heat, Sun, Spurs, Mavs
2006 - Pistons, Spurs, Mavs
2007 - Suns, Mavs, Spurs
2008 - Celtics, Pistons, Spurs, Lakers, Hornets
2009 - Celts, Cavs, Magic, Lakers
2010 - Cavs, Magic, Lakers

Kobe wasn’t exactly going up against the toughest slate of opponents either, so if you’re knocking competition, you have to knock Kobe as well.

Kobe also was going up against those teams, which were better earlier in his career, with the benefit of Shaq.

 

[CupWizier]

If they did it was for a few games at most. That's symantics man.

Okay let me use Bosch instead.... Bosch never played with Love or Irving.

I think you are missing the point.

Love and Wade probably played a little less than half the season together this year.

 

[handiman]

Its a fun debate or topic, but obviously its splitting hairs. On one side, I lean Lebron because he can guard 5 positions and play most likely 4-5 positions. I mean...if LJ was labeled any position he'd do it, and be good at it. PG? PF? No problem. He's an unreal passer. On the other side, Michael Jordan simply would not lose. He had a super human will to win, that I do not think LeBron has shown. I know Lebron is a 'winner' and highly competitive, obviously...but its hard to argue with Jordan's results. Its a tie.

Sure, LeBron can play some Center in today's game, but he couldn't get away with it in MJ's era. So, for fair comparison purposes, LeBron gets 4 positions to his credit. MJ could play PG-SG-SF just as capably as LeBron, and probably has enough size and athleticism to play some PF in today's era. That's not a huge edge to LeBron in versatility. It's more a measure of how today's game has become position-less.

 

[Natebishop3]

I've seen London, I've seen France.... I've seen Slypokerdog's underpants.

(It was the S2 company party - he apparently likes to get naked and streak through Denny's mansion.)

 

[H.C.]

Kobe isn’t a player of the 90s, he was drafted in ‘96. He is a player of the ‘00s.

To illustrate my point: 55+ win teams between 96-2010.

1997 - Bulls 69 wins; Heat 61, Knicks 57 , Hawks 56
Jazz, Rockets, Seattle, Lakers
1998 Sonics, Lakers, Suns, Jazz, Spurs, Bulls, Pacers
1999 - lockout
2000 - Pacers, Blazers, Lakers
2001 - Sixers, Spurs, Lakers
2002 - Spurs, Mavs, Kings, Lakers
2003 - Spurs, Mavs, Kings
2004 - Pacers, Wolves, Spurs, Lakers
2005 - Heat, Sun, Spurs, Mavs
2006 - Pistons, Spurs, Mavs
2007 - Suns, Mavs, Spurs
2008 - Celtics, Pistons, Spurs, Lakers, Hornets
2009 - Celts, Cavs, Magic, Lakers
2010 - Cavs, Magic, Lakers

Kobe wasn’t exactly going up against the toughest slate of opponents either, so if you’re knocking competition, you have to knock Kobe as well.

Kobe also was going up against those teams, which were better earlier in his career, with the benefit of Shaq.

What a dumb post.
But I'm glad you told me Kobe wasn't in the 90's wow amazing. How do I not know that..

All of the teams I listed during the 90's in the East were stronger competition for MJ than LBJ has gone through his entire career.
But I'm glad you ignored that part of the post and assumed I was saying Kobe's era was in the 90's.

If you really believe the teams during shaq and kobe/gasol and kobe are more less competitive than the teams LBJ has had to face.
Then you're posts are pretty insignificant.

 

[Haakzilla]

...and all of the Blazers are off the graph in the lower left quadrant!

 

[JoshuaHall]

What a dumb post.
But I'm glad you told me Kobe wasn't in the 90's wow amazing. How do I not know that..

All of the teams I listed during the 90's in the East were stronger competition for MJ than LBJ has gone through his entire career.
But I'm glad you ignored that part of the post and assumed I was saying Kobe's era was in the 90's.

If you really believe the teams during shaq and kobe/gasol and kobe are more less competitive than the teams LBJ has had to face.
Then you're posts are pretty insignificant.

90 - Celtics only 55+ win team in the east. (Excluding Bulls)
91- cavaliers
92 - knicks
93 - knicks / hawks (mj didn’t play)
94 - magic (mj didn’t play til later)
95 - magic
96 - heat, knicks, hawks
97 - Pacers

I fail to see the grueling schedule MJ played in the 90s. The most competitive year was 96. So once again, competition wasn’t the greatest - and when it was, in the 80s, he never won a chip.

In fact, the teams he even faced in the finals weren’t spectacular. A depleted Lakers team for his first, beat us for his second where we had Clyde Drexler and no one close to a prime Pippen.

You still haven’t stated why you think competition for Kobe was so superior. I gave you the teams that he primarily played against and how good they are.

Frankly if you can’t win 55+ games; you’re not that good.

Based on the content of your posts, it’s interesting that you choose to use words like ‘dumb’ and ‘insignificant’ to describe my posts, which are clearly superior in content and quality to that of yours, as mine contain actual evidence, logic, numbers and reasoning. People lie, numbers don’t. However, it is not my job to correct posts showing extreme ignorance, lack of intelligence, or the capability or capacity to correct these inherent flaws within.

So, have a nice day.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's worth remembering how old LeBron is while he's doing this. He won ROY in '04. Winner in '03? Amare Stoudamire (also a high schooler). Winner in '05? Emeka Okafor.
LeBron came in with Carmelo and Dwyane Wade, both of whom should retire.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Okay let me use Bosch instead.... Bosch never played with Love or Irving.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I dont know what that means. I am dumb. You know this. I love pictures, but they need a statement for me to understand.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I dont know what that means. I am dumb. You know this. I love pictures, but they need a statement for me to understand.

Do these help:

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Hint: Chris Bosh is neither a Dutch painter, nor a power tool.

BNM

 

[andalusian]

Do these help:

I wish there was a dependable detective that get down to the root of them things.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Amazing performance by LeBron tonight.

 

[Lukee]

LeBron isn't going to be greater than Jordan, but.. If we look just at game of basketball and who is better, I would pick LeBron.

 

[mook]

Amazing performance by LeBron tonight.

Watching him nail fadeaway jumper after fadeaway jumper while he completely owned the Raptors--it was Jordan-esque.

It really sucks being a Blazer fan right now. But the utter futility--the dashed hopes--Raptors fans must feel right now. Fuck. I mean, I never had much hope of us getting out of the second round, so while getting swept in the first round sucked, I can tell myself that if we'd just drawn a different opponent (Thunder, say) we probably would still be playing. But LeBron is just this buzz saw that rips the hearts out of Toronto no matter what they do, no matter how good they are in the regular season.

Their team looks so good on paper, and obviously worked so hard to get HCA in the second round and adapt to the Cavs. And it just doesn't matter.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

What greats do is break their opponents mentally. I think the Eastern conference is sort of weak, but I also think Lebron has just beat down those teams for so long it’s in their heads that he’s coming. You even see this Steph Curry and while he’s a bit of a one trick pony, he is such a good shooter that he is always on the opponents mind no matter where he is on the court. Lebron has owned the east, and I think their are examples of teams that are better than his that just couldn’t jump the mental gap, the pacers a few years ago, Toronto, Washington, they all have a huge mental block.
Michael did this to the east and kind of the entire NBA back in his day too. Teams just think they can’t beat these guys especially four times. Very, very few teams and players have done this and even guys Like Kobe, or Durant teams are very much aware of them, but still believe they can beat them. Even Duncan didn’t break opponents the way Lebron does and that is why Lebron belongs in the top 3-5 of all time in opinion. I still have Michael and Kareem as my 1-2 with Lebron at 3 but Lebron is phenomenally gifted as an athlete and has worked really hard to be an amazing basketball player as well.

 

[dviss1]

Imagine Magic using Lebron's steroids...

Link??? Until you got some proof stop spewing hate...

 

[Boob-No-More]

What greats do is break their opponents mentally. I think the Eastern conference is sort of weak, but I also think Lebron has just beat down those teams for so long it’s in their heads that he’s coming. You even see this Steph Curry and while he’s a bit of a one trick pony, he is such a good shooter that he is always on the opponents mind no matter where he is on the court. Lebron has owned the east, and I think their are examples of teams that are better than his that just couldn’t jump the mental gap, the pacers a few years ago, Toronto, Washington, they all have a huge mental block.
Michael did this to the east and kind of the entire NBA back in his day too. Teams just think they can’t beat these guys especially four times. Very, very few teams and players have done this and even guys Like Kobe, or Durant teams are very much aware of them, but still believe they can beat them. Even Duncan didn’t break opponents the way Lebron does and that is why Lebron belongs in the top 3-5 of all time in opinion. I still have Michael and Kareem as my 1-2 with Lebron at 3 but Lebron is phenomenally gifted as an athlete and has worked really hard to be an amazing basketball player as well.

This is a very good point. LeBron has owned the East and the other teams can't seem to get over the hump against him. The teams in the West don't have that same mental block. The Warriors and Spurs certainly didn't feel like they had no chance against the Heat/Cavs.

Jordan owned the league. Early in his career, he had to learn to get past the great Celtics and Pistons teams, but once he did, there was no stopping him. There was never a doubt the Bulls were winning the finals all six times they made it there.

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

This is a very good point. LeBron has owned the East and the other teams can't seem to get over the hump against him. The teams in the West don't have that same mental block. The Warriors and Spurs certainly didn't feel like they had no chance against the Heat/Cavs.

Jordan owned the league. Early in his career, he had to learn to get past the great Celtics and Pistons teams, but once he did, there was no stopping him. There was never a doubt the Bulls were winning the finals all six times they made it there.

BNM

After Durant went to GS there did seem to be a “we can’t beat them”, mentality that’s overcame the entire league, including Lebron to an extent. His mantra is going to sound like, “well I did my job, but there’s just to much talent on GS”. But Lebron is the closest example of a single player just owning a conference or the League since Michael did it. I’ll give Houston some Kudo’s for making bold moves to try to compete with GS, a lot of the league seems to have gone to, let’s just tank and stockpile until GS slows down.