Jerami Grant, yay or nay?

[wizenheimer]

We've already discussed this. If you're Boston and you already have a 1 (Tatum) and a 2 (Brown), you don't risk dealing the 2 for a "maybe" upgrade, but you do risk dealing the 2 for another 1, because we've repeatedly seen teams built on 2 top-10 players be title contenders.

if Simons is a maybe upgrade over Brown. or maybe not...why would Portland trade dame to build around the maybe Simons?

 

[illmatic99]

The whole premise with Boston is that they need a lead guard in the worst way and there's a lot of duplication in skillsets between Brown/Tatum.

And there's a lot of rumblings of them breaking it up sooner rather than later.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

if Simons is a maybe upgrade over Brown. or maybe not...why would Portland trade dame to build around the maybe Simons?

Because we're not presently in a position to attempt to contend this coming year, so we bank on the development of the 8-year-younger player who will be making half as much, surrounding and supporting him with the greater level of asset return the trade of the more expensive and more established player can bring.

Even if you disagree with the logic of the position here, I seriously doubt the implication in these posts that you don't actually understand it.

 

[Chris Craig]

I just see a disconnect here, or at least some imbalance

many are arguing that Portland should trade Dame and turn the team over to Simons. "Build around Simons" has been mentioned a bunch. But if Simons is good enough to justify trading away Dame, then he sure should be good enough, especially accompanied by a lottery pick, to convince Boston to trade Brown for Simons

Are the people who are saying the Blazers should trade Simons to Boston the same ones saying to trade Dame and rebuild around Simons?


The people saying that the team should trade Dame away (I am not one of them) and rebuild the team around Simons arent necessarily saying Simons is a star player right now. They saying, Portland is rebuilding and the next logical step in their minds is to trade Dame. (Whether their reasoning surrounds Dame not fitting a rebuild do to his age, or just letting him go elsewhere to win a ring, that he probably won't win here, acceptance of an era coming to an end, or something else altogether)

If they did trade Dame Simons would be the guy to build around along with Little, etc. Simons has shown he has the makings of a star. He isn't 100% proven yet, and for that reason Boston wouldn't trade Brown for him alone.

Maybe for him and Little and a pick. Their asking price would be higher than Simons. Higher than the Blazers would want to pay.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

The whole premise with Boston is that they need a lead guard in the worst way and there's a lot of duplication in skillsets between Brown/Tatum.

And there's a lot of rumblings of them breaking it up sooner rather than later.

So this would all be based on the assumption that their acquisition of White ends up a failure?

 

[wizenheimer]

So this would all be based on the assumption that their acquisition of White ends up a failure?

so if Portland could land Brown they shouldn't because they just landed Hart?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

so if Portland could land Brown they shouldn't because they just landed Hart?

Talk about a non-sequitur...

 

[beast blazer]

who the fuck is that? And why should I care about his speculation?

He is your father.

 

[wizenheimer]

Talk about a non-sequitur...

it's not at all

you're implying that Boston would be reluctant to trade for Ant because they just traded for White. But Simons is better than White...right? why would Boston say no to a more talented player because they had a less talented player at the position?

or then, why would Portland say no to the more talented Brown because of the less talented Hart? same difference....no?

seems to me that just about every team would jump at the opportunity to significantly upgrade a starter. Unless you're saying that Simons is not significantly better than White?

Because we're not presently in a position to attempt to contend this coming year, so we bank on the development of the 8-year-younger player who will be making half as much, surrounding and supporting him with the greater level of asset return the trade of the more expensive and more established player can bring..

I just disagree. I think the Blazers have a better chance of contending in the next 3 years with Dame + Brown/Simons/whovever than they do with Simons + Brown/whoever.

Brown might be a bad example anyway because he could walk in 2 years, no matter how good Portland is. And who knows, Ant might only sign for 3 more years. The window of Ant + Brown might be 2 years long. Which illustrates how short contending windows can be. Banking on the upside of Simons + hypothetical-Dame-traded-for-package could be a bet that never sees year 3 of that upside

 

[illmatic99]

Talk about a non-sequitur...

i actually think that's a fairly good analogy.

But that said... I don't think White is the PG they've desperately been lacking.

and ANT/Dame with Tatum would be a scary duo.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

it's not at all

you're implying that Boston would be reluctant to trade for Ant because they just traded for White. But Simons is better than White...right? why would Boston say no to a more talented player because they had a less talented player at the position?

or then, why would Portland say no to the more talented Brown because of the less talented Hart? same difference....no?

seems to me that just about every team would jump at the opportunity to significantly upgrade a starter. Unless you're saying that Simons is not significantly better than White?



I just disagree. I think the Blazers have a better chance of contending in the next 3 years with Dame + Brown/Simons/whovever than they do with Simons + Brown/whoever.

Brown might be a bad example anyway because he could walk in 2 years, no matter how good Portland is. And who knows, Ant might only sign for 3 more years. The window of Ant + Brown might be 2 years long. Which illustrates how short contending windows can be. Banking on the upside of Simons + hypothetical-Dame-traded-for-package could be a bet that never sees year 3 of that upside

I didn't imply that at all. Failed inference on your part. What I'm saying is that Boston traded for White in the hopes that he can be the lead guard Tatum/Brown need in order to reach their potential, and they're likely to see if that grouping works out before trading Brown for an upgrade at PG. And it's completely different from our situation with Hart anyway, because nobody in their right mind thinks that we dealt for him because we think he might be THE piece that makes the rest work together. Despite @illmatic99's approval, it's a terrible analogy-- the situations aren't at all comparable.

Regarding a Brown deal, you seem to be under the impression that I would prefer to deal Dame for him instead of Simons. No, that's not accurate, nor have I ever said that. What I have said is that I view it as highly unlikely that Boston would deal Brown for Simons, and that I would be in favor of a Dame for Brown+assets deal.

If I were to list BOS/POR outcomes in order of preference, they would be:

• Simons/Bledsoe for Brown
• Dame for Brown/Smart
• No deal

If I were to list BOS/POR outcomes in order of likelihood, they would be:

• No deal
• Dame for Brown/Smart
• Simons/Bledsoe for Brown

Make sense?

 

[blazerfan11]

Jerami Grant would be OK if he would buy in on playing non-stop defense. I watched a Detroit game and it's not like he has the ball in his hands all the time with the Pistons. He might actually get more touches (with probably fewer shots) with the Trail Blazers if we continue to play like we are now.

 

[wizenheimer]

If I were to list BOS/POR outcomes in order of preference, they would be:

• Simons/Bledsoe for Brown
• Dame for Brown/Smart
• No deal

If I were to list BOS/POR outcomes in order of likelihood, they would be:

• No deal
• Dame for Brown/Smart
• Simons/Bledsoe for Brown

Make sense?

it makes sense. I wouldn't make the same lists though

my preference would be Simons/Bledsoe then Simons/lottery pic/filler then no-deal. I would not trade Dame for Brown.

if I was to rate the players right now, it would be 1) Dame 2) Tatum 3) Brown 4) Simons. I'm not in favor of Portland trading 1 so as to pair 3 & 4 while allowing Boston to pair 1 & 2. Fuck that

now, if you say "but Dame is injured right now", that's true. But it's also the likely reason Boston wouldn't consider swapping Brown for Dame at this time

If Simons has as much upside as the people willing to trade Dame are essentially saying, then I think the best course of action, assuming Portland won't trade either Dame or Simons between now and the start of next season, is to be patient and see how Dame comes back from surgery, and how Dame-Simons-Hart operate as a back court trio. While I think there's a possibility, maybe a probability, that Dame/Ant will reprise some of the major flaws of Dame/CJ, I think there's enough of a chance they won't that it's worth a shot. especially considering that at no time during the Dame/CJ era did Portland have a guard like Hart, or a coach like Billups

 

[Orion Bailey]

…. especially considering that at no time during the Dame/CJ era did Portland have a guard like Hart, or a coach like Billups

That cant be emphasized enough.

Edit: ill also add that Simons is still much younger and moldable into what Billups wants. Cj, not so much.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Grant vs. Wood (this is a year old); they rate Wood higher at scoring and defense, Grant higher at athleticism and clutch. I think Wood is a great fit since he can play either C or PF, his best years statistically were in Detroit when he played PF,
"Christian Wood has become Houston's number one option this season. He is averaging 22.0 PPG on 55.8% from the field, 42.1% from three, and 68.8% from the line. Wood has been scintillating from the field and is a very tough player to handle with his dribbling and soft shooting touch.

Jerami Grant has been in the league for a few years now and has used his experience to make himself effective. Grant is quick, explosive, and has great length. His scoring numbers have taken a huge jump to 23.0 PPG, but he is shooting only 43.5% from the field and 38.4% from three.

Grant's scoring has taken a jump mainly because the Pistons have no other scoring option, and have trusted Grant to take the majority of the shots. Wood is a more versatile scorer with a greater skill set and he takes this one.

Jerami Grant was known for his defense throughout his career, but Christian Wood has taken his defense to another level this season. Wood is averaging 0.9 SPG and 1.5 BPG this season, while Grant is averaging 0.8 SPG and 1.2 BPG. Wood’s stats are higher and his impact has been slightly better due to his rim protection. Wood influences a ton of shots around the rim and he has improved by the game this season on defense. Grant is a terrific defensive player, but he has been forced to focus more on offense and he has not been as lethal as Wood on defense.

Christian Wood is taller, at 6’10”, and can therefore impact the game on defense more. He edges Grant in this category, although it is very close."
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/who-i...Grant was known for,due to his rim protection.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Grant vs. Woods stats. Wood much better on everything offense except assist %. Pretty even on defense. I will show career stats first with this year in parentheses,

Age; Wood one year younger,

3pt % Grant .345 (.327) Wood .371 (.371) talk about consistency!

efg% Grant .510 (.466) Wood .582 (.551)

rebounding % Grant 8.3 (7.2) Wood 18.2 (16.9)

assist % Grant 8.0 (13.4) Wood 9.3 (12.2) Actually not much difference here.

Block % close to even

OTRG Grant 110 (104) Wood 114 (111)

DTRG Grant 110 (114) Wood 111 (113)

OBPM Grant -.7 (.6) Wood 2.0 (1.6) Grant a minus figure for his career.

DBPM Grant .1 (-.5) Wood -.6 (-.9) Neither looking too good here,

Note: Wood had his best years when he was playing PF with Detroit, Grant's efficiency has fallen off with increased usage in last two years.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Grant vs. Woods stats. Wood much better on everything offense except assist %. Pretty even on defense. I will show career stats first with this year in parentheses,

Age; Wood one year younger,

3pt % Grant .345 (.327) Wood .371 (.371) talk about consistency!

efg% Grant .510 (.466) Wood .582 (.551)

rebounding % Grant 8.3 (7.2) Wood 18.2 (16.9)

assist % Grant 8.0 (13.4) Wood 9.3 (12.2) Actually not much difference here.

Block % close to even

OTRG Grant 110 (104) Wood 114 (111)

DTRG Grant 110 (114) Wood 111 (113)

OBPM Grant -.7 (.6) Wood 2.0 (1.6) Grant a minus figure for his career.

DBPM Grant .1 (-.5) Wood -.6 (-.9) Neither looking too good here,

Note: Wood had his best years when he was playing PF with Detroit, Grant's efficiency has fallen off with increased usage in last two years.

Maybe we should have a Christian Wood Nay or Yay thread?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Grant vs. Wood (this is a year old); they rate Wood higher at scoring and defense, Grant higher at athleticism and clutch. I think Wood is a great fit since he can play either C or PF, his best years statistically were in Detroit when he played PF,
"Christian Wood has become Houston's number one option this season. He is averaging 22.0 PPG on 55.8% from the field, 42.1% from three, and 68.8% from the line. Wood has been scintillating from the field and is a very tough player to handle with his dribbling and soft shooting touch.

Jerami Grant has been in the league for a few years now and has used his experience to make himself effective. Grant is quick, explosive, and has great length. His scoring numbers have taken a huge jump to 23.0 PPG, but he is shooting only 43.5% from the field and 38.4% from three.

Grant's scoring has taken a jump mainly because the Pistons have no other scoring option, and have trusted Grant to take the majority of the shots. Wood is a more versatile scorer with a greater skill set and he takes this one.

Jerami Grant was known for his defense throughout his career, but Christian Wood has taken his defense to another level this season. Wood is averaging 0.9 SPG and 1.5 BPG this season, while Grant is averaging 0.8 SPG and 1.2 BPG. Wood’s stats are higher and his impact has been slightly better due to his rim protection. Wood influences a ton of shots around the rim and he has improved by the game this season on defense. Grant is a terrific defensive player, but he has been forced to focus more on offense and he has not been as lethal as Wood on defense.

Christian Wood is taller, at 6’10”, and can therefore impact the game on defense more. He edges Grant in this category, although it is very close."
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/who-is-the-most-improved-player-christian-wood-vs-jerami-grant-full-player-comparison#:~:text=Jerami Grant was known for,due to his rim protection.

You lost me on the Wood discussion. Has there been talk that Houston wants to trade him?

 

[Haakzilla]

You lost me on the Wood discussion. Has there been talk that Houston wants to trade him?

...seems like there was a hint when he and KPJr had their little temper tantrums earlier in the year not sure if either is actually available though. Seems like Silas reconciled their differences, but another shitty lottery year could always change that!

 

[Haakzilla]

Maybe we should have a Christian Wood Nay or Yay thread?

...or maybe the Blazers should just get BOTH of them somehow!

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

You lost me on the Wood discussion. Has there been talk that Houston wants to trade him?

A little bit a year ago. I think their plan is to tank for several years so it would probably be a good idea to move for draft picks and younger guys.

 

[RR7]

Wood is more of a 4/5, whereas Grant is more of 4/3. I'd prefer the latter positionaly for our team.

 

[illmatic99]

Wood is more of a 4/5, whereas Grant is more of 4/3. I'd prefer the latter positionaly for our team.

we need both, really.

 

[RR7]

we need both, really.

Agreed, but a 4/5 for us is best served off the bench, because it feels like a 4/5 in this day and age is more just a small ball 5. I want both, but just thinking of moving a high pick for one or the other

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Wood is more of a 4/5, whereas Grant is more of 4/3. I'd prefer the latter positionaly for our team.

I'd prefer the latter, I think. What if Nurk went down for a month or for the season? What if we played a team where Billups thought Nurk would not be mobile enough to defend?

 

[RR7]

I'd prefer the latter, I think. What if Nurk went down for a month or for the season? What if we played a team where Billups thought Nurk would not be mobile enough to defend?

That's when your backup comes in? I prefer a top line sure starter over a what if about nurk

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

That's when your backup comes in? I prefer a top line sure starter over a what if about nurk

Wood would be a top line starter at PF; which is where he has done his best work.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

That's when your backup comes in? I prefer a top line sure starter over a what if about nurk

Exactly. Reminds me of when people complained about our backup PG behind a healthy Dame; but we had Anthony Tolliver starting at forward.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Wood would be a top line starter at PF; which is where he has done his best work.

Can you play him and Nurk together for extended minutes?

 

[RR7]

Can you play him and Nurk together for extended minutes?

He's played nothing but C the last 2 years. He's a good shooter, so wouldn't have a spacing issue. I think Grant is the better perimeter defender, however.