JFK

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From Maris' own link:

Those revelations would be overshadowed, however, by the House committee's JFK conclusion: That sound impulses recorded on the microphone of a Dallas police officer amounted to evidence of a shot from the infamous "grassy knoll" in Dealey Plaza, and thus of an additional gunman besides Oswald firing from a building window.

Kennedy, the committee's final report said in carefully tempered language, was "probably assassinated as the result of a conspiracy. The committee is unable to identify the other gunman or the extent of the conspiracy."

Subsequent analyses have cast doubt on the acoustic evidence, and the issue is considered unresolved.

:lol:

Do you even read your own cut and pastes?
 
Yeah, I read them.

Subsequent analyses have cast doubt on the acoustic evidence, and the issue is considered unresolved.


:lol:
 
Hey Maris,

You're not really paranoid if they're really truly actually out to get you.
 
Conspiracy theories always make me laugh.

loose_change-final_cut.jpg
 
Five decades after President John F. Kennedy was fatally shot and long after official inquiries ended, thousands of pages of investigative documents remain withheld from public view. The contents of these files are partially known — and intriguing — and conspiracy buffs are not the only ones seeking to open them for a closer look.

Some serious researchers believe the off-limits files could shed valuable new light on nagging mysteries of the assassination — including what U.S. intelligence agencies knew about accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald before Nov. 22, 1963.

It turns out that several hundred of the still-classified pages concern a deceased CIA agent, George Joannides, whose activities just before the assassination and, fascinatingly, during a government investigation years later, have tantalized researchers for years
.

"This is not about conspiracy, this is about transparency," said Jefferson Morley, a former Washington Post reporter and author embroiled in a decade-long lawsuit against the CIA, seeking release of the closed documents. "I think the CIA should obey the law. I don't think most people think that's a crazy idea."

Morley's effort has been joined by others, including G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel for a House investigation into the JFK assassination in the 1970s. But so far, the Joannides files and thousands more pages primarily from the CIA remain off-limits at a National Archives center in College Park, Md.

"There is no question that in various ways the CIA obfuscated, but it may be they were covering up operations that were justifiable, benign CIA operations that had absolutely nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination," said Anthony Summers, a British author whose sequel to his JFK book "Not In Your Lifetime" will be released this year.

"But after 50 years, there is no reason that I can think of why such operations should still be concealed," Summers said. "By withholding Joannides material, the agency continues to encourage the public to believe they're covering up something more sinister."

To understand the attention to the Joannides files, it's necessary to go back to 1963 and to review what's known about Oswald that put him on the CIA's radar.

It's also important to recall the differing conclusions of the two official investigations of the JFK killing — one denying any conspiracy, the other suspecting one — and how much or how little cooperation investigators received from CIA officials, including Joannides himself.
...
Still, plenty was learned about Oswald after the shooting in Dallas. And, it's now clear, he was not unknown to the U.S. government before that.

Assassination investigators learned that Oswald had formed a group in New Orleans in the summer of 1963 that ostensibly supported Cuban leader Fidel Castro (Oswald was the only local member) and had been involved in a street altercation with anti-Castro demonstrators that was captured by a local television station.

Pamphlets Oswald had in his possession bore an address of a local anti-Castro operation connected to a former FBI agent with ties to organized crime, investigators discovered. That and other information has led researchers to believe that Oswald may have been part of a counterintelligence operation to discredit the group he had joined, the Fair Play For Cuba Committee, and that the street scene was a setup.

If so, who would have overseen such an operation?

Declassified documents show that Joannides, while based in Miami, was the CIA case officer for the anti-Castro Student Revolutionary Directorate (DRE), the group involved in the street fracas with Oswald.

What did this all add up to, if anything? Official investigations of the Kennedy assassination were not able to provide complete answers.

The Warren Commission, which concluded in 1964 that Oswald acted alone and was not part of a conspiracy, was never told about the CIA's possibly relevant anti-Castro activities, despite the fact that former CIA director Allen Dulles was a Warren Commission member.

Warren Commission staff counsel Burt Griffin, now a retired judge, calls it "an act of bad faith" by the CIA.

"I think they had an obligation to tell the chief justice (Earl Warren, commission chairman) about that, and then that decision would have been his and the commission's to make," Griffin said.

Kaiser, the historian, has postulated that Oswald, long seen as a devout leftist, was in fact being manipulated by right-wing and mob elements in his final months and that his visit to the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City in the fall of 1963 was part of an attempt to reach Cuba and kill Castro. Release of documents held by those governments could be revealing, Kaiser said.

By the time the House Select Committee on Assassinations convened in the mid-1970s to probe the Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr. killings, other congressional investigations had exposed the CIA's activities in the early 1960s, including plots to assassinate Castro.
...
That evidence was, of course, only part of the mountains of material considered by the committee, some of it from the CIA. And the CIA's liaison to the committee was none other than George Joannides, by then retired from the agency.

Blakey, the committee's chief counsel, recalled how the CIA brought in Joannides to act as a middleman to help fill requests for documents made by committee researchers. "He was put in a position to edit everything we were given before it was given to us," Blakey said.

But Blakey didn't learn about Joannides' past until Morley unearthed it in files declassified years later.

"If I'd known Joannides was the case officer for the DRE, he couldn't have been liaison; he would have been a witness," Blakey told The Associated Press.

Blakey added: "Do I think I was snookered, precisely like the Warren Commission was? Yes."


http://news.msn.com/us/why-are-the-jfk-files-still-sealed-after-50-years?ocid=msnnws
 
Yeah, I read them.

Subsequent analyses have cast doubt on the acoustic evidence, and the issue is considered unresolved.


:lol:

Smoke and mirrors, baby.

Acoustical evidence never carried any importance at all in this investigation, nor did the number of shooters.

Oswald was a plant groomed by the CIA. That much is obvious from the facts unearthed by the press back in the 60's and 70's (when we still had a press). The conspiracy has already been proven. The rest is just names and numbers.
 
I wonder how long it'll be before we actually find out the truth.
 
Smoke and mirrors, baby.

Acoustical evidence never carried any importance at all in this investigation, nor did the number of shooters.

Oswald was a plant groomed by the CIA. That much is obvious from the facts unearthed by the press back in the 60's and 70's (when we still had a press). The conspiracy has already been proven. The rest is just names and numbers.

You know the difference between "fact" and "way out there assertion," right?

I guess not.
 
Area 51 was a conspiracy theory. Now I think we know there actually is an Area 51. It just isn't the home of alien technologies and autopsies on alien corpses.

Right Maris?
 
There have got to be some true things that used to be "conspiracy theories", right?

Everything bad we have ever discovered about our government started as a conspiracy. Each and every discovery. It's how it works. We'd never know shit without guys like Snowden. Our government lies to us or tells us nothing.

A Real American figures out we've been bamboozled and tells the country. He/she is immediately called a nut by the government to discredit him/her since the evidence certainly can't. Gullible tv viewers..er, I mean citizens brainlessly parrot the charge and if that doesn't quiet the Real American he dies in an auto accident or has a heart attack.
 
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To a "T"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory#Conspiracism_as_replacing_democracy

Some scholars argue that conspiracy theories once limited to fringe audiences have become commonplace in mass media, contributing to conspiracism emerging as a cultural phenomenon in the United States of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, and the possible replacement of democracy by conspiracy as the dominant paradigm of political action in the public mind.[25][41][42][43]
 
Area 51 was a conspiracy theory. Now I think we know there actually is an Area 51. It just isn't the home of alien technologies and autopsies on alien corpses.

Right Maris?

I've never been there, but people who worked there have been adamant that these things did actually occur. I've never given much thought to alien life, or bigfoot, or whether there's such thing as a non-pedophilic catholic priest.

But I do care about America, and whether criminals, murderers, and racists wield power over her. And it's clear they do.
 
But I do care about America, and whether criminals, murderers, and racists wield power over her. And it's clear they do.

Only since 2006. It got worse in 2008.
 
Watch it.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365118537/

The bullet passed through Kennedy and tumbled for the 3ft between he and entering Connally.

I watched it and the ballistics test did not at all confirm what you've stated about the tumbling bullet being able to do the damage it did and come out in that shape. The showed that the bullet tended to tumble, and that it could penetrate enter pine without deforming much.

Pine is one of the softest woods. If you want to see what it would look like after breaking a rib and wrist, isn't a better test to actually fire through those bones? (I've already posted the results of those tests).

Why didn't they show us the tumbling bullet breaking something equivalent to bone? A tumbling bullet bullet, and one that hits things sideways is going to lose power.
 
Only since 2006. It got worse in 2008.

It started long before I was born, increased steadily over my lifetime, seemingly snowballing since the Grand Excuse of 9/11. The figureheads/parties in place had little effect on the direction the US took from term to term.

The same objectives and outcomes are sought by those producing the show no matter which acting troupe they hire for the gig.
 
I watched it and the ballistics test did not at all confirm what you've stated about the tumbling bullet being able to do the damage it did and come out in that shape. The showed that the bullet tended to tumble, and that it could penetrate enter pine without deforming much.

Pine is one of the softest woods. If you want to see what it would look like after breaking a rib and wrist, isn't a better test to actually fire through those bones? (I've already posted the results of those tests).

Why didn't they show us the tumbling bullet breaking something equivalent to bone? A tumbling bullet bullet, and one that hits things sideways is going to lose power.

Nice! But be honest now, you want to blast some caps into some ballistic soap now don't you?
 
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/wound3.txt

Code:
THE BULLET FRAGMENTS IN GOVERNOR CONNALLY:

WERE THERE TOO MANY TO HAVE COME FROM CE 399


The following is from John Lattimer's KENNEDY AND LINCOLN,
pp. 285-288.
---------------------------------------------------------

So-called Pristine Bullet Is Not Pristine; It Is Both
Flattened and Bent


     This bullet, if seen only in a side view, which has
been widely republished by critics of the Warren Commission
report, appears to be deformed very little. In fact, its
apparent lack of deformity permitted critics to describe it
inaccurately as a pristine bullet.  

     Assassination buffs have tried to discredit the Warren
Commission report deduction that bullet 399 could come out
with so little deformity after doing all this dirty work in
two victims. They have even elected to try to discredit the
bullet itself, without inspecting it themselves.  

     When I actually picked up this bullet and inspected it,
I found it to be flattened on its rear end to a significant
degree, as if from a severe blow on one side. (Photographs
taken from the side do not show this flattening.) It is also
slightly bent, on its long axis. 

     The soft lead at the base of bullet 399 appeared to be
scooped out slightly on one side, with fine transverse
scratch marks across the base in the direction of the
scooping effect. Some of the soft lead of the interior of
the bullet still projected slightly from the base of the
bullet, at the edge toward which the scooping effect led
(see arrow in figure 109, left lower end). This extruded bit
of lead lay on the side of the bullet away from the
flattened side.  

     That bullet 399 was fired from Oswald's rifle has been
verified by tests done by the FBI laboratory staff, who
found that the rifling scratches on bullet 399 conformed
exactly to the rifling scratches on the test bullets fired
from the same gun. No one appears to have contested this
point.

Were the Four Fragments in Connally Excessive?


     Critics also contended that the four fragments of
bullet seen in the preoperative X-rays of Connally s wrist
and thigh were too many to be produced from the amount of
lead estimated to be missing from bullet 399, that is, 2.2
grains. Again, they said this without checking for its
validity. Once more it appeared to me and my sons that we
could contribute answers to this question.

     It would be necessary, it seemed to us at once,
carefully to weigh 100 of the sample bullets.  These would
have to be identical to those fired by Oswald. 

     First, however, I closely examined the fragments of the
bullets removed from Kennedy's head, from Connally's wrist,
and from the automobile. Neutron activation analysis
revealed that the wrist fragments all came from bullet 399.
All the other bullet fragments, from the Presidents brain
and from the floor of the car, came from the head bullet No
other bullets were represented in the car. The unfired
cartridge found in Oswald's rifle was next examined at the
National Archives.  After considerable difficulty, I
obtained a substantial supply of exactly the same cartridges
as Oswald had used. Around 1954, four lots of these
cartridges had been manufactured. I was finally able to
procure samples from lots 6000, 6001, 6002, and 6003, and
the FBI obtained samples from lots 6000 and 6003, all of
which proved consistent and reliable. One hundred of these
bullets were pulled from cartridges, and my son Jon weighed
them on a precision balance in the laboratories of the
Englewood School for Boys. The weights ranged from 159.80
grains for the lightest bullet to 161.50 grains for the
heaviest, with an average weight of 160.844 grains and a
median weight of 160.80 grains.  

     This compared fairly closely with the weight range of
three sample bullets weighed by the FBI laboratory and
reported by firearms expert Robert Frazier. He found them to
weigh 160.85 grains, 161.1 grains, and 161.5 grains, with an
average weight of 161.15 grains, whereas our larger sample
yielded a mean weight of 160.84 grains. 

     Since bullet 399 weighed 158.6 grains when found, we
have assumed that it lost between 1.2 grains and 2.9 grains,
with a mean probability of 2.2 grains.


Compressing a Bullet Like 399 Squeezes Soft Gray Lead from
the Rear End

     Next, we compressed a bullet like Warren Commission
Exhibit 399 sideways in a special vice until its
configuration was as close as possible to that of bullet
399. This required great force because of the high
structural density of these bullets, but it did cause the
softer lead from the center of the bullet to be extruded
from the open rear of the encompassing jacket (which was
made of a tougher, copper-colored gilding metal) much as
toothpaste is extruded from a tube.  

     The extruded leaden metal was then sliced off flush
with the base of the bullet and the cylindrical fragment
weighed. It was found to weigh exactly 2.1 grains, almost
precisely the same as the weight of lead estimated to be
missing from the base of bullet 399.

     The extruded cylinder of lead weighing 2.1 grains was
first placed on one of our test wrists in the same location
as the large fragment seen on the X-rays of Connally's
wrist. Three additional particles the same size as the other
particles in Connally were then removed from the extruded
cylinder and arranged in the same configuration as those
seen on his X- rays of the wrist and thigh, and pictures
were taken for comparison. The density of the materials was
the same as from a bullet like 399. 

     It was seen that the largest fragment from our test
bullet was slightly larger than the largest fragment in
Connally.

     Next, Dr. Myron Tannenbaum, our pathologist, sliced the
remainder of this extruded cylinder of metal into thin
fragments, each approximately the same size as those seen in
Connally's X-rays, to see how many such fragments could be
obtained from it.


Fragments from Our 2.1-grain Sample of Test Bullet Lead
Compared with Fragments from Bullet 399


     A grand total of forty-one such fragments (slices) were
made from the extruded metal, as compared with the total of
only four fragments seen in Connally's arm (three fragments)
and leg (one fragment) X-rays. It should be noted that while
one of the fragments in Connally's wrist was about twice the
diameter of our test slices, the other three were much
smaller than our slices. 

     For those who might argue that bullet 399 in its
unfired state might have weighed only as much as our
lightest sample bullet, namely 159.8 grains, we still have
the fact that twenty-two such slices could have been
produced from the 1.2 grains of metal that would have been
involved. 

     At the other extreme, if it were assumed that bullet
399 happened to weigh as much as our heaviest sample bullet,
161.5 grains, then fifty-three slices might have been
produced from the missing portion. 

     It must be pointed out that only one of the four
Connally fragments was slightly thicker than those from our
sample of forty-one, and that certainly the number of
metallic fragments was not a valid criterion for judging how
much weight was missing from bullet 399. Using the actual
amount of metal (2.1 grains) extruded from our test bullet,
we were able to produce forty-one fragments from it.

     Next, the fragments extruded from the experimental
bullet were examined as to appearance, color, and texture,
and were found to be a similar lead-gray color (containing
none of the copper color of the bullet jackets) and to be of
the same texture as the fragment removed from Connally's
wrist. In both cases the fragments appeared to be extruded
soft lead like that from the centers of both the test bullet
and bullet 399. 

     The experiment of compressing bullets to the same
extent as bullet 399 was repeated ten times to rule out
possible gross differences in the malleability of the
materials in different bullets. The results were closely
similar in every sample tested.
 
I watched Killing Kennedy last night, and to be honest, I was a little disappointed. It wasn't anything new.
 
Only "conspiracy theorists," as uncreative people call intelligent people, are capable of raising questions about anything.
 
Only "conspiracy theorists," as uncreative people call intelligent people, are capable of raising questions about anything.

Too bad the questions aren't intelligent.
 
Many books by experts totaling tens of thousands of pages say you're wrong.

I know your answer. "Did you watch this one TV show on my side?"
 
All that proves is there's money to be made by making up lies.
 
How many books by "experts" about how the moon landing never happened?

:lol:
 
Answering dozens of scholarly books with some show, what was it called, "TV for Nonreaders" or something, isn't moving public opinion.

My advice is to dumb it down further. Create a Saturday morning cartoon show called "CaseClosedMan, Ace Conspiracy-Killing Sophist."
 

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