Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

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Yet we still had the same personnel problem against Davis. We're getting a bit deep here lol, but wouldn't you say that an alley oop is an alley oop? Of course it's more humiliating when it's McGee, but it's not really a "skillful" move. Just wanted to point out we had the same problem a year before. :-)

I fail to see the equivalence.

McGee benefited from us missing our starting and back up centers. He also benefited from playing with three of the greatest shooters in the history of the game to spread the floor for him. JaVale McGee was not the reason we lost that series.

Anthony Davis is just flat out a great player. He had a great series and averaged 5 points more per game against us than he did in the regular season, but he made an even bigger impact against us on the defensive end.

So, still not seeing how one == the other.

BNM
 
This works cap wise, but I suspect it will take more. Throw in a pick or two and/or a young player.

View attachment 22389

Or agree to take back Dieng's horrible contract in exchange for Meyers' smaller, shorter contract:

View attachment 22390

Again a pick and/or young player can be added as necessary.

BNM
My take away from all this...jim.jpg

IF the trade machine was right... why would we want Dieng...? :smiley-laugh:
 
A trade that makes sense for both sides is:
Caldwell-Pope + Lonzo Ball + Josh Hart for Butler
BECAUSE: all three of the Lakers are good defenders, a real need for Minny. Hart and KCP are also Thibs players. And the Lakers might be ready to move on from the Ball circus, while a move to Minny might do him good (especially if his Dad doesn't follow.)

Meanwhile, even if Butler doesn't stay with the Lakers at the end of the year, they're one of the few teams where the cap space he'll leave will almost be as valuable as him.

HOWEVER: KCP is the problem: he can't be traded at all for a while, and even when he's tradeable, I believe he has a no-trade clause because he has a one year deal.

Damn you got dementia or something? This ain't no Faker forum bruh...
 
My take away from all this...View attachment 22392

IF the trade machine was right... why would we want Dieng...? :smiley-laugh:

The Trade Machine isn't right. "Hollinger's Analysis" is based on PER. It sees us giving up Meyers Leonard and his 17.8 PER and actually thinks we're giving up a really good player, therefore, fewer wins.

Regardless, the reason we'd want Dieng is he (specifically his contract) may be the price we have to pay to get Jimmy Butler.

BNM
 
https://clutchpoints.com/timberwolves-rumors-eastern-conference-exec-watching-jimmy-butler/

"One Eastern Conference FO exec. today via text: "We watch with great interest but ultimately it comes down to not effing up the future - at what cost is it worth it?"

"Former NBA sharpshooter Tim Legler, now a basketball analyst, said Wednesday that while Butler is a great player, if he’s the best player on a team, that team won’t compete for a championship."

"Strong words, indeed. But amid all the perception on Butler, it’s worth noting that he’s one of the hardest workers in the NBA. So much so that his tenacity has often rubbed people the wrong way."

I think he'd get along fine with Dame. They are both hard workers, but Dame is a better leader.

BNM
 
Fuck the wolves and their oden dick pics

I hope that franchise is forever trash
 
Yes, the lack of adjustments was frustrating - it reminded me very much of Nate getting outcoached by Gentry back in the POR vs. PHO series when Gentry put Grant Hill on Andre Miller and was allowed to hide Nash on Batum with ZERO adjustments from Nate.

Still, even if C.J. is capable of cutting and scoring at the rim the stats say Butler is MUCH more capable of doing it. Butler's greater size and strength make him much more capable of finishing in traffic, while also drawing a LOT more fouls (something C.J. is very poor at). In other words, if C.J. could do it, Butler could do it better.

Plus, you ignored the way Holiday lit up POR on the other end. Do you really think Holiday would have posted two new payoff career highs in the span of three games if Butler would have been guarding him? The 41 points Holiday scored in Game 4 wasn't just a new playoff career high, it was the most points he's ever scored in an NBA game - period. This wasn't some young player having a breakout game/series. This was a 9 year NBA veteran with over 600 games of NBA experience under his belt and he lit us up like he's never lit up anybody else.

Butler would have helped us - a lot - on both ends of the floor in that series, but this is about more than just one series. Butler is the kind of 2-way player you need to win in this league. He can guard multiple positions at an elite level, plus he is a very efficient scorer who gets to the FT line (important in close games - especially in the playoffs). And with his size, and ability to play both the 2 and the 3, he really helps balance our roster.

Don't get me wrong, I like C.J., I like him a lot. Getting him with the 10th pick in the draft was a steal. But, I like Butler better and think he's a better fit next to Dame (I thought the same thing about Paul George and Kawhi Leonard).

Given our staff's track record of developing guards (including C.J.), I feel confident that if we land Butler, eventually Simons or Trent Jr. will step up and we can start one of them at the 2 with Butler at the 3. That's the nice thing about drafting them both. We can include one of them in the package to get Butler and still have the other left to keep the pipeline of developing talent full.

In the mean time, Curry can fill that roll. Even if we didn't start Dame/Curry/Butler, that would be a hell of an effective "small ball" line up.

For those who don't think Neil is open to trading C.J., you don't think drafting Simons and Trent Jr., while also signing Curry and Stauskas to short term contracts was done to make giving up C.J. more palatable, especially if it means getting a talent like Jimmy Butler back in return?

BNM

I actually didn't ignore the fact that Jrue scored a lot of points in b2b games.
The points that killed Portland in that series was transition opportunities.
That comes from Stotts allowing the Pelicans to load up on one side of the floor and trying to force scoring opportunities out of it.
It comes from Stotts forcing Lillard to play out of the P&R against the best defensive big in the game today.
Bad shots, and Portland had a lot of them in the NoP series. Lead to transition opportunities.
I don't think Butler would've made any difference in that series if Portland's gameplan didn't change.
That series wasn't lost because of the players. It was lost because of shitty coaching out of Terry Stotts.
 
I actually didn't ignore the fact that Jrue scored a lot of points in b2b games.
The points that killed Portland in that series was transition opportunities.
That comes from Stotts allowing the Pelicans to load up on one side of the floor and trying to force scoring opportunities out of it.
It comes from Stotts forcing Lillard to play out of the P&R against the best defensive big in the game today.
Bad shots, and Portland had a lot of them in the NoP series. Lead to transition opportunities.
I don't think Butler would've made any difference in that series if Portland's gameplan didn't change.
That series wasn't lost because of the players. It was lost because of shitty coaching out of Terry Stotts.
I think for the most part Stotts is an ok coach, but I almost feel like just that series along is a fireable offense. He got worked, in basically every facet. You can blame the roster to some extent but it was really bad...
 
I actually didn't ignore the fact that Jrue scored a lot of points in b2b games.
The points that killed Portland in that series was transition opportunities.
That comes from Stotts allowing the Pelicans to load up on one side of the floor and trying to force scoring opportunities out of it.
It comes from Stotts forcing Lillard to play out of the P&R against the best defensive big in the game today.
Bad shots, and Portland had a lot of them in the NoP series. Lead to transition opportunities.
I don't think Butler would've made any difference in that series if Portland's gameplan didn't change.
That series wasn't lost because of the players. It was lost because of shitty coaching out of Terry Stotts.

So, if that's true, we don't need to make any trades. Neil has already built us a championship roster. All we need is a better coach.

I don't believe that for one second and, as much as you hate Stotts, I don't think you do either. Butler would make us significantly better on both ends of the floor. If you can get that kind of player, you should go all in to do so, regardless of past failures. You don't pass on a 2-way talent like Jimmy Butler because you hate the coach.

BNM
 
Dame-Butler-Mo-Aminu-Nurk would be a very, very good defensive team.
Collins-Baldwin-Curry off the bench would be an excellent defensive bench as well.
 
Me ;)

Don't like giving up all those picks. For a popular free agent destination like the Blazers, that's franchise suicide.

:cheers:
Here's the deal though... If we don't add another CJ level player at some point we're going to lose Dame. He's a great guy, but come on.

This is exactly the situation we need to take advantage of if we want to really compete.
 
Portland. 4 -1st rounders is way too many.
Doesn't matter. Top 10 protect the picks. If Butler jets we're going to need to trade Dame and CJ (for youth and picks probably), so we'll end up tanking and keeping the first couple picks anyway.

If Butler stays, however, those picks are far less valuable to us than the vets who will sign cheap in the hopes of winning a title.
 
The Trade Machine isn't right. "Hollinger's Analysis" is based on PER. It sees us giving up Meyers Leonard and his 17.8 PER and actually thinks we're giving up a really good player, therefore, fewer wins.

Regardless, the reason we'd want Dieng is he (specifically his contract) may be the price we have to pay to get Jimmy Butler.

BNM
They should use Win Shares, not PER.

I agree on Dieng.. taking on his contract would be favorable for MIN.

If we traded CJ+Meyers for Butler+Dieng, I'd look at trading ET for Batum, since Batums bad contract would line up with Dieng's. Plus, Batum would fit into that Butler/Harkless/Aminu mold of a guy who can guard 4 positions.
 
New Orleans had the Top 4 players in that series. AD, Holliday, and Rondo were definitely better than any of our players. Mirotic too maybe, in the way he was able to swing Game 3. Aminu maybe.
 
Imagine thinking Portland has a chance to land Jimmy Butler lol what a bunch of idiots we are.
There's a difference between having a chance and our GM being willing.
 
Doesn't matter. Top 10 protect the picks. If Butler jets we're going to need to trade Dame and CJ (for youth and picks probably), so we'll end up tanking and keeping the first couple picks anyway.

If Butler stays, however, those picks are far less valuable to us than the vets who will sign cheap in the hopes of winning a title.
Exactly.
 
New Orleans had the Top 4 players in that series. AD, Holliday, and Rondo were definitely better than any of our players. Mirotic too maybe, in the way he was able to swing Game 3. Aminu maybe.
Never thought I'd see you post something like this. So sensible...

You forgot the fact that we got outcoached.
 
There's a difference between having a chance and our GM being willing.

We don’t have a chance and the GM isn’t willing. CJ is not a Thibs type and a straight up deal wouldn’t even work financially. We can’t deal Collins because we’re already thin up front, and Turner isn’t an asset, even if Thibs likes him. That’s just blazers fans fantasy.
 
What would our cap situation look like in a theoretical world where we traded CJ for Butler and Butler bounced next summer? I ask because Cousins is a free agent, and he’s one guy Portland may have a shot at because of Lillard.
 
Butler would be great!

(notices price tag of $38 million per year for 5 years)

(sticker shock)

Forget this guy! Olshey should have the competence to trade for unnoticed talent costing much, much less.
 
Why is Harkless so untouchable? Especially for an all star wing. Don't make sense to me.

I get a feeling that is how Olshey has operated the last couple of years while trying to make deals, telling the opposing GM that he would trade anything except for every half useful asset that he has.
 
I get a feeling that is how Olshey has operated the last couple of years while trying to make deals, telling the opposing GM that he would trade anything except for every half useful asset that he has.

You mean like that time he traded our starting center for a guy who was racking up DNPs?

BNM
 
I get a feeling that is how Olshey has operated the last couple of years while trying to make deals, telling the opposing GM that he would trade anything except for every half useful asset that he has.

Look, take your pick Tom

Meyers
Evan
BIGGIE
Jake

Well even throw in a second, if NEED BE
 
We don’t have a chance and the GM isn’t willing. CJ is not a Thibs type and a straight up deal wouldn’t even work financially. We can’t deal Collins because we’re already thin up front, and Turner isn’t an asset, even if Thibs likes him. That’s just blazers fans fantasy.
CJ is likely the best player they could get back. Thibs brought in Jamal Crawford and Jeff Teague... yet you think he'd take a worse package back than CJ McCollum because he doesnt like that type of player? There's no basis for that.
 
CJ is likely the best player they could get back. Thibs brought in Jamal Crawford and Jeff Teague... yet you think he'd take a worse package back than CJ McCollum because he doesnt like that type of player? There's no basis for that.

He likes tough minded players. Teague is that. Crawford is a bench player, not a guy being paid like a superstar.

Just off the top I know I’d rather have Gary Harris if I was Minnesota.
 
He likes tough minded players. Teague is that. Crawford is a bench player, not a guy being paid like a superstar.

Just off the top I know I’d rather have Gary Harris if I was Minnesota.
Teague is more tough-minded than CJ? According to what?

Gary Harris is an equally paid yet worse version or C.J.... he doesn't really defend or pass or rebound, and is a volume scorer, just like C.J.
 

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