Jimmy Butler wants out? (He does.)

[Labinot41]

We may have to throw in Baldwin and the rights to Federico Kammerichs and maybe a Top-55 protected 2nd round pick...but that's it!

Don't forget the guy we got from the vonleh trade !

 

[Pinwheel1]

As decent as our start is......if we lose tonight....4-3 could put us out of the top 8 in the west.
Current teams who are not in the top 8 include OKC, Houston, Minnesota, and the Lakers, all who were projected to finish ahead of us. I guess my point is....it's still really early to bet on who makes the playoffs. Injuries will be a huge factor as always. The west is so tight

 

[Boob-No-More]

ok....so you think Butlers trade value is the same or worse than lets say 1 math ago? I don't.

Yes, I do. MIN has been asking for too much and that has driven down potential interest. There has been a fundamental disconnect between MIN ownership and the coach/front office though this whole Butler drama. Their demands have been unrealistic and, at times, conflicting. Butler has DEMANDED a trade, more than once and his presence is having a negative impact on KAT, the guy MIN's ownership has committed to build around.

Friction between the players is only going to intensify and if the losing continues, desperation to move Butler will only increase. Right now, no one else NEEDS Butler as much a MIN NEEDS to move him. Even HOU, off to a 1-4 start and missing Harden, isn't desperate enough to meet MIN's demands.

BNM

 

[Labinot41]

MIN has a losing record and KAT, the guy they signed to a max extension this summer, has been a total non-factor. They are not "playing well and winning". They are playing poorly, losing and getting booed in their own building.

They are winless on the road, and after a home game against UTA tomorrow, they have a 5-game road trip coming up in early November. Assuming they lose at home to UTA, I see them likely going 1-4 on that road trip. That would put them at 4-9 after the first month of the season. Not sure how that helps Jimmy's trade value. Last year, they got off to a hot start (7-3). This year, with all the turmoil and bad blood between Butler, KAT and Wiggins, things seem to be going downhill fast.

BNM

It's really ridiculous to see Towns standing in the corner and not getting involved in the Offense, what a waste of talent

 

[Hoopguru]

Yes, I do. MIN has been asking for too much and that has driven down potential interest. There has been a fundamental disconnect between MIN ownership and the coach/front office though this whole Butler drama. Their demands have been unrealistic and, at times, conflicting. Butler has DEMANDED a trade, more than once and his presence is having a negative impact on KAT, the guy MIN's ownership has committed to build around.

Friction between the players is only going to intensify and if the losing continues, desperation to move Butler will only increase. Right now, no one else NEEDS Butler as much a MIN NEEDS to move him. Even HOU, off to a 1-4 start and missing Harden, isn't desperate enough to meet MIN's demands.

BNM

I guess we'll see!

 

[Boob-No-More]

I guess we'll see!

Do you think MIN will actually get an all star, or near all star in return for Butler?

I don't. Hell, HOU wouldn't even give them Eric Gordon.

BNM

 

[Hoopguru]

Do you think MIN will actually get an all star, or near all star in return for Butler?

I don't. Hell, HOU wouldn't even give them Eric Gordon.

BNM

yea, I think so. He's worth it as a player and all 30 teams know it!
Just a matter of fit for two teams.

 

[andalusian]

yea, I think so. He's worth it as a player and all 30 teams know it!

He is worth it if he stays. Unless he is willing to commit to the trading team - is he really worth giving an all-star caliber player for?

Look in a vacuum - and sure, there are plenty of teams that would be happy to trade an all-star caliber player for him. Given the contract situation and his desire to be paid like a super-star - the situation changes dramatically.

 

[Natebishop3]

I would still 100% trade for Butler.

 

[hoopsjock]

Do you think MIN will actually get an all star, or near all star in return for Butler?

I don't. Hell, HOU wouldn't even give them Eric Gordon.

BNM

I agree with you about Butler's value but we won't really know what Houston is or isn't willing to give up until tomorrow when they can combine Chriss and Knight with other salaries.

 

[Natebishop3]

For me, a dream scenario would be a starting lineup of Dame, Butler, Aminu, Collins, and Nurk. That team could stop anyone in the league.

 

[Hoopguru]

I could see the Lakers, Milwaukee,Sac,Denver, Detroit & Portland making a play for Butler.
I doubt the Houston offer is the only one they have.
The teams I mentioned above are ones that could feel like Butler (if he's willing to go there) could take them to the next level.
Yes Miami, Houston & others are inquring as well, I'm sure.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

For me, a dream scenario would be a starting lineup of Dame, Butler, Aminu, Collins, and Nurk. That team could stop anyone in the league.

Rather Harkless than Aminu. More reliable J, IMO. If healthy, that is...

 

[Natebishop3]

Rather Harkless than Aminu. More reliable J, IMO. If healthy, that is...

I like Aminu's defense and I like that he can defend four positions.

 

[andalusian]

I like Aminu's defense and I like that he can defend four positions.

And that he always seems to play hard and that he seems to be more durable.

 

[Natebishop3]

And that he always seems to play hard and that he seems to be more durable.

Yes, all of that.

 

[TBpup]

He is worth it if he stays. Unless he is willing to commit to the trading team - is he really worth giving an all-star caliber player for?

Look in a vacuum - and sure, there are plenty of teams that would be happy to trade an all-star caliber player for him. Given the contract situation and his desire to be paid like a super-star - the situation changes dramatically.

It is questionable that any team is willing to give up an all-star caliber player for Butler given his contract situation. The highest caliber player named so far is Eric Gordon and on his best day, he wasn't at that high of a level.

 

[SwissBlazer]

In the last Podcast from Zach Lowe, Woj was pretty cryptic by saying that in those cases there is always a team that come out of nowhere to get a deal done. He was pretty clear to say that this could be resoleved pretty soon. I wonder if he has any input on who the unknown team is or if he is only throwing that. But coming from him, it's something I would call relevant

 

[e_blazer]

In the last Podcast from Zach Lowe, Woj was pretty cryptic by saying that in those cases there is always a team that come out of nowhere to get a deal done. He was pretty clear to say that this could be resoleved pretty soon. I wonder if he has any input on who the unknown team is or if he is only throwing that. But coming from him, it's something I would call relevant

I'll just point out that in NBA terms, there's no place more "nowhere" than Portland.

 

[TBpup]

I'll just point out that in NBA terms, there's no place more "NWhere" than Portland.

Fixed it.

 

[BigGameDamian]

For me, a dream scenario would be a starting lineup of Dame, Butler, Aminu, Collins, and Nurk. That team could stop anyone in the league.

Neil still likes Dame and CJ though.

 

[BBert]

I'll just point out that in NBA terms, there's no place more "nowhere" than Portland.

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Then we pounce!

 

[illmatic99]

So it's come to this



Offers are gonna start going to shit now.

 

[BBert]

So it's come to this



Offers are gonna start going to shit now.

Hey! Portland can offer that!!

 

[illmatic99]

Hey! Portland can offer that!!

Not sure I want him, especially without some indication of him extending here.. This whole process has me really soured on him.

If he doesn't get traded to a team he wants to play long term, what's stopping him from pulling this same shit there?

 

[Boob-No-More]

So it's come to this



Offers are gonna start going to shit now.

So much for increasing his trade value. MIN has handled this horribly from day 1.

So, YAY!!!!!!

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

"Wolves termed it"general soreness and precautionary rest"

That's a lot of fancy words for butt hurt.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

So much for increasing his trade value. MIN has handled this horribly from day 1.

So, YAY!!!!!!

BNM

They have no obligation to trade him where he wants to go. The fact that Thibs let him act out and be petulant without any fines/suspensions is telling about how badly they've handled it.

Jimmy is no saint here either. He actually is contractually obligated to play. Why should he get paid while sitting out?

 

[Boob-No-More]

They have no obligation to trade him where he wants to go. The fact that Thibs let him act out and be petulant without any fines/suspensions is telling about how badly they've handled it.

Jimmy is no saint here either. He actually is contractually obligated to play. Why should he get paid while sitting out?

The bridges have been burned. At this point they should suspend him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team, or whatever they need to do to stop paying him. Of course the player's union would intercede on Butler's behalf, but at least it would send the message, you don't want to play, fine, we're not paying you to sit home and do nothing.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

The bridges have been burned. At this point they should suspend him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team, or whatever they need to do to stop paying him. Of course the player's union would intercede on Butler's behalf, but at least it would send the message, you don't want to play, fine, we're not paying you to sit home and do nothing.

BNM

There is some kinda rule actually that people have referenced before, where if a player decides to sit out while healthy, the player forefits his free agency the upcoming year, etc.

Edit, here it is:

What happens to Kawhi Leonard if he refuses to play and isn’t injured?
If Leonard openly refuses to play for Toronto, he’d make little, if any of his $20 million contract.

According to the NBA’s Collective Bargaining Agreement, players’ base salaries can be reduced by 1/145 for up to 19 missed games — that includes exhibition, regular season and playoff games — and 1/110 of his base salary for the 20th missed game and beyond.

Spotrac has on record that Leonard is owed $20.2 million next season from the Raptors — which doesn’t include the $3 million trade kicker he earned just for getting traded to Toronto.

The Raptors played five preseason games last year. Let’s say they repeat that, play an 82-game season, and lose in six games in the first round of the playoffs. That’s a conservative estimate of 93 games they’ll play this year.

If Leonard sits all that time, he could lose more than $16 million of his contract just on missed games alone.

And the fines would keep rolling. The team could also penalize him for:

Practice: $2,500 for the first, $5,000 for the second, $7,500 for the third. For the fourth and beyond, “such discipline as is reasonable under the circumstances.”

Promotional Appearances: $20,000 for each required appearance without reasonable excuse.

Between those fines and the missed game fines, Leonard could lose his entire contract’s worth of money.

It gets worse for Leonard if he refuses to play
Even after all that, the Raptors would still have control over Kawhi Leonard’s future if he held out, meaning Leonard could be losing a whole lot more than just this year’s payday for sidelining himself.

According to Article XI, section 3 of the CBA, if Leonard withholds his services for more than 30 days, he will be deemed to not have completed his contract. He also won’t gain a year of service in the league, which directly affects when he can receive the highest maximum salary the league allows (a player needs 10+ years of experience).

Also, the Raptors get control over what happens to Leonard next summer, and he wouldn’t be able to sign elsewhere without Toronto’s approval. Leonard would be stuck with the Raptors all over again.