Joe Cronin appreciation thread

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Ripcity4life77 said:
We really have entered crazyville cause some of you fans are praising Cronin and making Dame the bad guy -- WTF is wrong with you people besides the obvious. You have zero loyalty to the player who is the only reason the Blazers are not in the lotto each and every season since he has been in the league. You show ZERO loyalty to the player that has given his heart and soul not only to the franchise but to the city of Portland but NO he is a bad guy. It's Cronin that should be fired and run the hell out of town along with that BEEP Jody who is making Cronin her YES man but no let's praise Cronin for contributing to this cluster BEEP this has turned into.
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I think you mean beep fuck.
 
blazerfan11 said:
And yet here we are. The fabulous drafts make up for everything else.

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Yeah I'm very happy how the Blazers now have Scoot and Sharpe.

If Cronin's main skill is tanking for top lottery picks it's going to be very hard to ever transition to build a winner. Tanking is really only something you can do a few seasons. There becomes a real risk of players and the organization getting stuck with long term loser habits.

Even to have these last two picks we also had multiple lucky breaks outside of Cronin control to allow us the chance of drafting Scoot/Sharpe.
 
tykendo said:
19 years old today, is 24 in 2028. There are teams that have already sent picks for 2030 away. But i guess this franchise , with a 32 year old, generational talent in his prime , doesn't rate that kind of commitment. If he does, please show me. And again, Every Great Player Gets Paid. Real loyalty is surrounding said player with talent that can pay dividends for that player's timeline. Especially when it's said to be the plan.
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I'm not sure what your proposing, that the Blazers should give away a 2028 pick only to make Dame happy even if the team has no possibility of contending?

I'm fine with trading away future if we're getting legit above average starting player in return. None of the names or rumors are giving us that. If the Blazers don't have that option they should continue with the path of building for the future. There is no reason to throw away a 2028 pick if it provides no winning benefit today.

It sucks this team hasn't given Dame better rosters. But that was mistakes over a long time of a decade, it just can't be fixed in an instant. It's a sunk cost now. Doing another mistake today won't undo the prior ones.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I'm positive it was discussed, but I never saw a reason why we had to get DET and all the picks involved...why couldn't/didn't Cronin just take Wiseman for GP2?
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Because Jody didn't want to take on any salary this season.
 
I actually thought this was a joke thread.

And even though it's not, it is. "[P]laying chess with Dame"? How? By saying one thing and doing another? By jerking around (arguably) the best player in Trail Blazer history?

I like the picks, but it seems pretty apparent, especially from pretty much every roster move outside of the draft and I guess acquiring Jerami, that Cronin is in way over his head.

But who knows. Maybe/hopefully come training camp we'll all be singing his praises.
 
Cronin is doing what I hadn't dared hope he would do (take huge swings in the draft and not trade assets for mediocre vets when everyone in the world is yelling at him just to make Dame happy). So good for him. I didn't much like the Grant acquisition, but it was basically the bare minimum to keep Dame happy.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Cronin is doing what I hadn't dared hope he would do (take huge swings in the draft and not trade assets for mediocre vets when everyone in the world is yelling at him just to make Dame happy). So good for him. I didn't much like the Grant acquisition, but it was basically the bare minimum to keep Dame happy.
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Yeah he seems to be making sound decisions in the draft.

I was listening to Aaron Fentress on Chad/Dwight and he's just echoing everything else we have heard. That teams were trying to fleece us. I don't think anyone wants to help Joe out. They think they have him over a barrel because of Dame and they're trying to dunk on him. I don't think the LAC trade helped his cause. I think GMs look at that deal and they think Joe is a rube.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Yeah he seems to be making sound decisions in the draft.

I was listening to Aaron Fentress on Chad/Dwight and he's just echoing everything else we have heard. That teams were trying to fleece us. I don't think anyone wants to help Joe out. They think they have him over a barrel because of Dame and they're trying to dunk on him. I don't think the LAC trade helped his cause. I think GMs look at that deal and they think Joe is a rube.
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If that's what he is up against then he just needs to trade Dame for the best haul possible... I think there would be too much interest in Dame for them to "have him over a barrel". I don't actually think that is his only option and hope he finds one that is good and keeps Dame but if having Dame is stacking all of the odds against Cronin being able to help this team get better then he has to do the prudent thing and move Dame. I'll fucking hate it but I'll hate it more if we roll into next season with what we had last season plus another short guard who is best when dominating the ball and someone we can get for the TPMLE... or even the MLE.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Yeah he seems to be making sound decisions in the draft.

I was listening to Aaron Fentress on Chad/Dwight and he's just echoing everything else we have heard. That teams were trying to fleece us. I don't think anyone wants to help Joe out. They think they have him over a barrel because of Dame and they're trying to dunk on him. I don't think the LAC trade helped his cause. I think GMs look at that deal and they think Joe is a rube.
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reportedly, the Clippers are out there trying to dump Powell and Morris for cap savings. I think the 2nd apron is going to really squeeze marginal players on larger, long term contracts, like Powell (or Ant), and ratchet down their value. I also don't think that Clippers trade impacted perception of Cronin. Every GM of a team not willing to go 50M over the tax line knows what it is to have an owner insisting on cost control; and at the time of the trade, Portland was a tax team with a record 11 games under .500. Pulling the plug was the prudent course of action

we also heard that just about every team in the top-10 of the draft was looking at trades. None happened. I've said it before, but right now, I think draft picks, even high ones, are at their lowest value ever. Maybe the new CBA will start to shift that value the other direction, but if a team wasn't already in rebuilding mode, there didn't seem to be much appetite for leveraging good players in order to move into the draft. Sounds like the Pelicans were wanting the 3rd pick for a bundle of their future picks. The Zion stuff is difficult to credit

all I heard was that teams made shitty offers for the 3rd pick. And Portland quickly refused. I never heard a single report/rumor that any team, after Portland's refusal, came back with a better offer. If teams would have truly wanted that 3rd pick they would have. Meaning, it very well could have been teams were only interested in fleecing the Blazers, not in the 3rd pick

look at the two teams in the finals and the years of experience:

Jokic 8
KCP 10
Gordon 9
Murray 6
Porter 4
Brown 5
Green 15
Braun 1 (22 years old)

Adebayo 6
Butler 12
Vincent 4 (27 years old)
Lowry 17
Strus 4 (27 years old)
Caleb Martin 4 (27 years old)
Love 15
Robinson 5 (29 years old)
Oladipo 10

pretty much the same look for the Lakers and Celtics too when you look at conference finals. Austin Reaves was a rookie, but he was a 24 year old rookie

teams will take 19 year old rookies if they have a pick and he's BPA. But they don't seem to go out of their way to trade for a 19 year old rookie unless he's a can't miss prospect. Dame had good reasons for saying he wasn't interested in more 19 year old rookies. He knows where he was at at 19; and he know where he was at at 22 as a rookie
 
It looks to me like G.M.'s are graded by a fan, by whether or not that person did what that fan wanted.

Anything else is failure.

stages-of-failure.jpg
 
Supply and demand and Dame is the Man....probably top 5 most popular players in the association and probably the most respected.
If Dame wanted to leave and blarzesr are going to oblige him you give it time so that offers won't just be low ball.
If he and the team are committed to each other still, do as Miami & Denver have done, use a few drafts picks, Bam & Herro / Murray and Joker, then go out get a player or two that improves the team, KCP & Gordon & Butler and hungry cheap players. The era of super teams is going to fade out and organizations will build for chemistry, and season vets that address positions, sprinkled with a few draft picks.
I think by fall Portland TB fans will be happy with the way the team is shaping up.
 
wizenheimer said:
reportedly, the Clippers are out there trying to dump Powell and Morris for cap savings. I think the 2nd apron is going to really squeeze marginal players on larger, long term contracts, like Powell (or Ant), and ratchet down their value. I also don't think that Clippers trade impacted perception of Cronin. Every GM of a team not willing to go 50M over the tax line knows what it is to have an owner insisting on cost control; and at the time of the trade, Portland was a tax team with a record 11 games under .500. Pulling the plug was the prudent course of action

we also heard that just about every team in the top-10 of the draft was looking at trades. None happened. I've said it before, but right now, I think draft picks, even high ones, are at their lowest value ever. Maybe the new CBA will start to shift that value the other direction, but if a team wasn't already in rebuilding mode, there didn't seem to be much appetite for leveraging good players in order to move into the draft. Sounds like the Pelicans were wanting the 3rd pick for a bundle of their future picks. The Zion stuff is difficult to credit

all I heard was that teams made shitty offers for the 3rd pick. And Portland quickly refused. I never heard a single report/rumor that any team, after Portland's refusal, came back with a better offer. If teams would have truly wanted that 3rd pick they would have. Meaning, it very well could have been teams were only interested in fleecing the Blazers, not in the 3rd pick

look at the two teams in the finals and the years of experience:

Jokic 8
KCP 10
Gordon 9
Murray 6
Porter 4
Brown 5
Green 15
Braun 1 (22 years old)

Adebayo 6
Butler 12
Vincent 4 (27 years old)
Lowry 17
Strus 4 (27 years old)
Caleb Martin 4 (27 years old)
Love 15
Robinson 5 (29 years old)
Oladipo 10

pretty much the same look for the Lakers and Celtics too when you look at conference finals. Austin Reaves was a rookie, but he was a 24 year old rookie

teams will take 19 year old rookies if they have a pick and he's BPA. But they don't seem to go out of their way to trade for a 19 year old rookie unless he's a can't miss prospect. Dame had good reasons for saying he wasn't interested in more 19 year old rookies. He knows where he was at at 19; and he know where he was at at 22 as a rookie
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I just wonder how much harder it will be to trade Dame's contract after this summer.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Yeah he seems to be making sound decisions in the draft.

I was listening to Aaron Fentress on Chad/Dwight and he's just echoing everything else we have heard. That teams were trying to fleece us. I don't think anyone wants to help Joe out. They think they have him over a barrel because of Dame and they're trying to dunk on him. I don't think the LAC trade helped his cause. I think GMs look at that deal and they think Joe is a rube.
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Joe is a cap guy. Did he see the ramifications of the new CBA coming?
I guess we'll find out with Jerami Grant.
If Cronin can sign Grant can to a contract that wouldn't need "sweeteners" to be traded.
 
Watch this video if you haven't already. It explains the new CBA in general. Changes are a-coming.
Skip ahead to 1:30 for the start of the CBA part. The part before that explains how we got where we are now.

It kind of makes Cronin look more like a genius for tanking 2 seasons in good drafts and getting super lucky, before the new CBA kicks in.
Dame should definitely watch it. I've thought all along getting super lucky this way was the best chance Dame has to go far in the playoffs. He might have to wait a couple years, but so what?

 
blazerfan11 said:
Watch this video if you haven't already. It explains the new CBA in general. Changes are a-coming.
Skip ahead to 1:30 for the start of the CBA part. The part before that explains how we got where we are now.

It kind of makes Cronin look more like a genius for tanking 2 seasons in good drafts and getting super lucky, before the new CBA kicks in.
Dame should definitely watch it. I've thought all along getting super lucky this way was the best chance Dame has to go far in the playoffs. He might have to wait a couple years, but so what?

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If you listen to this, Joe seems to be playing the long game. Stacking up on rookies is how you win in the future.
 
New CBA fully kicks in two offseasons from now. It sure as hell looks like we're building the team around the new CBA.
 
B-Roy said:


Let's see what he ends up being moved for.
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The Clippers certainly won't be getting any 1st round picks, which is what a lot of "experts" screamed about when he was traded from the Blazers.
If anything, Powell's value should have gone up since then, looking at his numbers and fewer years on his contract.

upload_2023-6-29_10-10-27.png
 
Natebishop3 said:
I just wonder how much harder it will be to trade Dame's contract after this summer.
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I think it was always going to be next to impossible to trade Dame for the "hauls" and "godfather" packages a lot of people seem convinced Portland will get. If, and as soon as the Blazers start shopping Dame the offers start real low. That always happens when team is forced to trade their franchise player

my hatred of Olshey and the ownership decisions to keep him on the job past 2015-16 just grows. With him in charge 'Missed-Opportunities-Were-Us'

you were around during his tenure right? Did you ever have any contact with him?
 
wizenheimer said:
I think it was always going to be next to impossible to trade Dame for the "hauls" and "godfather" packages a lot of people seem convinced Portland will get. If, and as soon as the Blazers start shopping Dame the offers start real low. That always happens when team is forced to trade their franchise player

my hatred of Olshey and the ownership decisions to keep him on the job past 2015-16 just grows. With him in charge 'Missed-Opportunities-Were-Us'

you were around during his tenure right? Did you ever have any contact with him?
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Yes, but if the new CBA doesn't fully kick in until 2025, that would mean that Dame's salary will be harder to trade the closer we get to that date.
 
Natebishop3 said:
If you listen to this, Joe seems to be playing the long game. Stacking up on rookies is how you win in the future.
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Another reason picks are becoming even more valuable then they used to be.

If the Blazers trade Dame they need to get 3-4 picks, I almost don't care who the veterans coming back in a trade are.
 
Natebishop3 said:
New CBA fully kicks in two offseasons from now. It sure as hell looks like we're building the team around the new CBA.
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I'd say it fully kicks in next offseason. What aspect are you considering that is delayed until the summer of 2025?
 
blazerfan11 said:
The Clippers certainly won't be getting any 1st round picks, which is what a lot of "experts" screamed about when he was traded from the Blazers.
If anything, Powell's value should have gone up since then, looking at his numbers and fewer years on his contract.

View attachment 56456
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We should trade Ant for Powel and play Powel at SF ……. ;)
 
SharpesTriumph said:
If Joe really saw all this coming months or years ahead then it makes his decision to overpay Nurk and Ant even more dumb.
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Ant is cheaper than Herro and Poole, he is not overpaid.

Vucevic just got $20m a year. Nurk's overpay is minimal.

Cronin did the right thing to retain both assets and not lose them for nothing.
 
wizenheimer said:
I think it was always going to be next to impossible to trade Dame for the "hauls" and "godfather" packages a lot of people seem convinced Portland will get. If, and as soon as the Blazers start shopping Dame the offers start real low. That always happens when team is forced to trade their franchise player
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Blazers should never look at it as "forced" to trade Dame. If Dame tells them he prefers a trade then its the Blazers job to look for a good return. Maybe that happens immediately or maybe they have to wait until the start of the season or even the deadline.

If the Blazers move on from Dame even the Miami package with control of 4-5 years of their draft picks could ultimately be a big "haul". It depends what your looking for in trading Dame, if you need both veterans/starters as well as picks it might be very hard. If you want draft assets which are likely to be much more valuable as we get further into the new CBA there are likely some good options with Miami/Brooklyn/etc. Yeah none are likely to be "godfather" packages or even "fair" value for the franchise best player of all time. But it could be very good assets that are critical to putting the final pieces of a winning team around Scoot/Sharpe/etc in 3-6 years from now. At that time when Dame is earning 60 million its extremely unlikely he has any value above his contract.
 
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