Just for fun: Where does Nic stack up?

[Nikolokolus]

http://www.basketball-reference.com...010&p2=pippesc01&y2=1989&p3=princta01&y3=2004

Cumulative stats for Nic, Pippen, and Prince in their first 2 seasons.

Don't take this the wrong way; this isn't meant to make a statement about his ceiling or if he'll achieve his considerable potential, but I was modestly surprised at how well he compares to the two players people most often talk about him trying to emulate or model his game after.

 

[Minstrel]

Pippen was an anomaly, though. His first few seasons didn't project to what he turned into...thus, many many many players will equal or eclipse how he started his career without ever coming close to what he achieved in his prime.

I think (and have thought) that Batum is a superior talent to Prince and the numbers you provide still support that. He's ahead of Prince at the same point in their careers, but is two years younger than Prince was.

I would place Batum's "expected value" at a player the caliber (not necessarily the style) of Gerald Wallace. His ceiling...who knows? Maybe he'll be a Pippen-like exception too!

 

[Nikolokolus]

I agree, I don't expect Pippenesque performance -- you don't project players to bloom into top 50 of all time guys after all -- part of that is role, part of that is just how big of a leap Pip made in his third or fourth year which wasn't really predictable. I honestly don't know what to expect, but I think with another chance to play 'point-forward' for his national team in the World's this summer it could improve his confidence (assuming he does well) and could maybe cause Nate to re-evaluate how he is utilized in the offense. The best of all outcomes is that he continues to tighten up his ball-handling, develops a good left hand and shows that he can be an initiator at least part time ... who knows.

 

[RoyToy]

What makes Pippen different is he went to college as a 6-1 PG then grew 7 inches between his freshman and sophomore year. Plain luck.

Batum will probably put up #'s very similar to Prince's numbers.

 

[KingSpeed]

These stats seem to go from Jan 2009 because Nic actually averaged 10 ppg this season.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

These stats seem to go from Jan 2009 because Nic actually averaged 10 ppg this season.

That's what "cumulative" means. Zack Addy would have known that.

 

[Nikolokolus]

These stats seem to go from Jan 2009 because Nic actually averaged 10 ppg this season.

Two seasons of data averaged.

If you like here is a single season comparison for each player's second season -- a much more favorable of a comparison for Nic
http://www.basketball-reference.com...010&p2=pippesc01&y2=1989&p3=princta01&y3=2004

Here's another with a more 'glue guy' type added into the comparison; Josh Childress
http://www.basketball-reference.com...989&p3=princta01&y3=2004&p4=childjo01&y4=2006

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

17.3 PER??? Holy shittt, To bad nate mcmoron sticks him in the corner like he's bruce bowen....

The kid is a PHENOMENAL talent, even on the offensive end....

Fucking Nate

 

[RoyToy]

17.3 PER??? Holy shittt, To bad nate mcmoron sticks him in the corner like he's bruce bowen....

The kid is a PHENOMENAL talent, even on the offensive end....

Fucking Nate

What if Batum's PER is because of how Nate uses him?

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

What if Batum's PER is because of how Nate uses him?

Thats impossible, anyone should be able to tell that Batum would be a much more dynamic offensive player in a different system

 

[THE HCP]

Wonder if all the people on here that either blame Nate for everything bad or give him all the credit for everything good have ever played organized sports. The players either bring it or they don't.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Thats impossible, anyone should be able to tell that Batum would be a much more dynamic offensive player in a different system

It's actually 'totally possible', I really like Nic, but he generates almost half of his offense off the attention that Brandon and LMA attract, with his ability to knock down that corner or wing three, the fact that he knocked down his shots at such a high clip when he was open is commendable, but saying he should be a featured guy without more evidence that he's capable of dealing with focused defensive attention for a full game is way premature. Having said that I'd like him to have the opportunity to try and prove it.

 

[RoyToy]

Thats impossible, anyone should be able to tell that Batum would be a much more dynamic offensive player in a different system

I think you overrate his overall ability on the offensive end. Other than shooting he has no real strengths right now.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think you overrate his overall ability on the offensive end. Other than shooting he has no real strengths right now.

Wrong.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

I think you overrate his overall ability on the offensive end. Other than shooting he has no real strengths right now.

I think he does. I think he is great in the open court, running the fastbreak. I also think our team is a lot better when he is moving around, getting dunks and layups in the lane. It happens, but it only happens once or twice a game.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Wonder if all the people on here that either blame Nate for everything bad or give him all the credit for everything good have ever played organized sports. The players either bring it or they don't.

Im sure you have played MANY organized sports, so we'll listen to you.

 

[blazerboy30]

Wonder if all the people on here that either blame Nate for everything bad or give him all the credit for everything good have ever played organized sports. The players either bring it or they don't.

I wonder if you missed the "organized sports" thing if you think players aren't expected to run the offensive scheme that the coach requires.

 

[RoyToy]

I think he does. I think he is great in the open court, running the fastbreak. I also think our team is a lot better when he is moving around, getting dunks and layups in the lane. It happens, but it only happens once or twice a game.

Every player in the NBA besides Brandon Roy is better in the open court running the fastbreak. That's no surprise.

Batum did a lot of running around to end the year, especially when Roy wasn't playing.

Other than shooting he's limited right now. His ball handling is just average.

 

[RoyToy]

Wrong.

I don't think so.

 

[THE HCP]

Im sure you have played MANY organized sports, so we'll listen to you.

That's your comeback? I'm saying that if you have played on teams, you realize the players win and lose the games, not the coach. And it gets old to hear people like yourself constantly blame Nate for everything that goes on with this team. And yes I played organized sports for quite a long time. Soccer/ football/ basketball/ baseball/track

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I added another player to the comparison... an international kid who was 21 in his second season as well. I was surprised by the similarities in the Advanced Stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=0HKqk

 

[hasoos]

I think you overrate his overall ability on the offensive end. Other than shooting he has no real strengths right now.

Not true. In the European tournament when Parker went down he ran the show at PG the whole tournament and played quite well, attacking the rim and setting up players for scores. I believe the only thing holding Nic back really, is the coaches who admit they are kind of surprised by how fast his offensive game is coming along.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Every player in the NBA besides Brandon Roy is better in the open court running the fastbreak. That's no surprise.

Batum did a lot of running around to end the year, especially when Roy wasn't playing.

Other than shooting he's limited right now. His ball handling is just average.

Average in what context ? This team?

Because here are the players that are better ball handlers than him on the Blazers

Miller
Roy
MAYBE Bayless and MAYBE Mills if he counts
And ummm cant think of any others....

 

[blazerboy30]

That's your comeback? I'm saying that if you have played on teams, you realize the players win and lose the games, not the coach. And it gets old to hear people like yourself constantly blame Nate for everything that goes on with this team. And yes I played organized sports for quite a long time. Soccer/ football/ basketball/ baseball/track

Highschool sports star FTW!!

I woulda been state champ if coach had given me a chance!

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't think so.

If all he could do was shoot jumpers then he wouldn't have shot 52% from the field overall (his two point % was 62.5). Nic showed an ability to put the ball on the floor on occasion and finish at the rim, usually curling off of a screen on the baseline to either dunk or lay it in and his transition game was really good.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

That's your comeback? I'm saying that if you have played on teams, you realize the players win and lose the games, not the coach. And it gets old to hear people like yourself constantly blame Nate for everything that goes on with this team. And yes I played organized sports for quite a long time. Soccer/ football/ basketball/ baseball/track

Lol, ok so coaches have little or no bearing on the outcome of a game. I guess thats why Phil Jackson is getting paid 12 mil a year

I guess thats why Mourihno can go to any soccer team in the world and have success

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

I added another player to the comparison... an international kid who was 21 in his second season as well. I was surprised by the similarities in the Advanced Stats: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=0HKqk

And Batum is 10x the defender Dirk will ever Be

 

[BlazerCaravan]

And Batum is 10x the defender Dirk will ever Be

Realistically, he's 1.85x the defensive player (using adjusted DWS), and a better offensive player (7.7 OWS adjusted for Dirk's Minutes versus 6.1 for Dirk).

I think we're actually *underestimating* Nic's offensive abilities, and focusing on his defensive abilities because he happens to share a body type with Pippen and Prince. I really think this kid's trajectory is more in the "OMFG! All Round Player!" range.

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Realistically, he's 1.85x the defensive player (using adjusted DWS), and a better offensive player (7.7 OWS adjusted for Dirk's Minutes versus 6.1 for Dirk).

I think we're actually *underestimating* Nic's offensive abilities, and focusing on his defensive abilities because he happens to share a body type with Pippen and Prince. I really think this kid's trajectory is more in the "OMFG! All Round Player!" range.

Not with Nate as his coach going forward

 

[RoyToy]

Average in what context ? This team?

Because here are the players that are better ball handlers than him on the Blazers

Miller
Roy
MAYBE Bayless and MAYBE Mills if he counts
And ummm cant think of any others....

Bayless is certainly a better ball handler than Batum. Mills also. They can create their own shot, Batum really can't. Batum does not have these PG dribbles that people on here think he does. They're not terrible at all, but they're about what they should be.

If all he could do was shoot jumpers then he wouldn't have shot 52% from the field overall (his two point % was 62.5). Nic showed an ability to put the ball on the floor on occasion and finish at the rim, usually curling off of a screen on the baseline to either dunk or lay it in and his transition game was really good.

Lots of players in the NBA can come off screens and get an easy dunk. It's nothing special. Despite what you read here Batum ran off screens more than people realize, he just wouldn't be open.

Also, Batum was assisted on over 80% on all of his shot attempts. For him to be this dynamic offensive player people keep talking about he'll have to show he can create his own shot. Even Webster and Rudy had lower asst %'s across the board.