Keon Johnson

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TBpup said:
Johnson just isn't that good. Brandon Boston Jr was the Clips 2nd round pick who played in over twice as many games, averaged twice the points, in less than twice the minutes. Boston has been playable for them getting 16 mpg. Johnson has been unplayable and gets mop-up, garbage time for the injury decimated Clippers.

For Gary Trent Jr, Trevor Ariza and 2 1st round Draft picks, we got a guy who may never play (Bledsoe), a guy on his 4th team in 8 years (Winslow) and a rookie who was being outplayed by his 2nd round counterpart.

All the sunshine and silver lining in the world doesn't alter the fact that the Clippers are rejoicing, the rest of the league can't believe how badly the Blazers got fleeced, Blazer fans got screwed, and Jody saved a few bucks and will now get Cap money paid to her instead of having to pay.

Not impressed.
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If that the case we got a 2 way player playing over our 2nd rounder I guess our 2nd rounder must be a bust.
 
illmatic99 said:
paul george has been injured for the past two months. "buried" is laughable.
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But Keon probably more of 2 guard then a forward the position might be reason why he not getting any burn. Plus another reason the NBA is more 3 point game and right now that's his weakness. He good defense rating when plays either with the big club and down in the G-league. He was a good defender in college.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Who the fuck cares if one 20 year rookie plays better than the other 19-year rookie in their first year? Even if Boston turns out to be good, it still does not matter if Keon turns out to be good as well, and at his age no one expected him to have an impact as a rookie. You guys are nit-picking about something you have no clue how will turn out.
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It doesn't take away the fact we got absolute shit value for two starters.

Many of us have low hope that Keon turns to anything more than an end of the rotation guy.
 
We will not know how we did in this trade for 1 year or 2. If Keon ends being pretty good usable player then I would say the trade accomplished 2 things get under the cap and have player playing good minutes. To me clippers wanted to get bedslole contract and Justin was throw in to make the trade work. Keon was the player they actually went after for the future. They might not being building around Dame they might building around Simons and Little.
 
James lamphear said:
We will not know how we did in this trade for 1 year or 2. If Keon ends being pretty good usable player then I would say the trade accomplished 2 things get under the cap and have player playing good minutes. To me clippers wanted to get bedslole contract and Justin was throw in to make the trade work. Keon was the player they actually went after for the future. They might not being building around Dame they might building around Simons and Little.
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Then move Dame for a boatload of assets.

Still, moving two starters for what we got is horrible value. If you want to blow it up get future assets.

1st rounds picks are like lottery tickets. Getting Keon is like a half scratched lotto ticket that doesn't have as much value as a future 1st would because everyone has seen he isn't doing shit. Even though the Clippers have all these injuries. Doesn't mean he won't eventually. But, part of the mystery is gone.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
It doesn't take away the fact we got absolute shit value for two starters.

Many of us have low hope that Keon turns to anything more than an end of the rotation guy.
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The only reason Roco is a started is Nance is hurt. Powell was playing on upper echelon teams he wouldn't be started either.
 
Question to all:
Do you think Keon will be a rotation player next year due to merit (as opposed to injury)?
 
James lamphear said:
The only reason Roco is a started is Nance is hurt. Powell was playing on upper echelon teams he wouldn't be started either.
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That's not true. Neither of your statements are true.

Pretty hilarious we gave up two first round picks for a non starting player two years ago.

If that is your valuation of those two then all three players we got shouldn't even be on rosters. Or should be end of the bench guys.
 
wizenheimer said:
is this what it has come to? a dingbat debate on the upside of a rookie to try and justify the absolutely shitty fucking trade Cronin just made?
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keeps our minds off the games where we get smacked by 30 while playing tony snell 20 minutes.

i don't think there is any level of spin people can come up with for that one.
 
illmatic99 said:
it's all just spin. people trying to see what they want to see to justify/rationalize a dumb trade that did not need to be done in such a rush.
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I'm ok with people rationalizing/whatever. What I'm confused about is...
how can you say Neil was a bad GM, but like this trade?
 
Pinwheel1 said:
No, I put him in the same category as Ant. Most young non-lottery rookies these days are not ready until year 3.
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I think the point of his addition in the trade was for Cronin to be able to come back to Jody and say, "hey look I couldn't get a first rounder, but I got one that was drafted a few months ago at 21." For all intents and purposes, we are trying to build around Dame in a quick rebuild. And also for all intents and purposes, Johnson was the only potential non-scrub piece of that trade.

Is it not rational to criticize the lack of vision for getting a 19 yr old prospect who is three years away now? This ain't Banchero or Smith who will contribute from Day 1. Johnson's ceiling might be Powell, and he'll get there maybe in 2025.

Is it also not rational to think we woulda been better served not moving Powell at all now if these were the offers we were getting? Unless Bledsoe gets moved by Thursday, this will have been completely pointless.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
That's not true. Neither of your statements are true.

Pretty hilarious we gave up two first round picks for a non starting player two years ago.

If that is your valuation of those two then all three players we got shouldn't even be on rosters. Or should be end of the bench guys.
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Did Nance take Roco starting position that is true statement and Powell wouldn't be starting on like of golden state or phoenix suns team so that's pretty much true too.
 
James lamphear said:
Did Nance take Roco starting position that is true statement and Powell wouldn't be starting on like of golden state or phoenix suns team so that's pretty much true too.
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You quote two teams that have all world players at the SG Spot.

Powell can be a starting SG on a contender.

Covington can be a starter on a legit team too.

How many of the players we got would even be in the rotation of a contender?

Zero.
 
illmatic99 said:
I think the point of his addition in the trade was for Cronin to be able to come back to Jody and say, "hey look I couldn't get a first rounder, but I got one that was drafted a few months ago at 21." For all intents and purposes, we are trying to build around Dame in a quick rebuild. And also for all intents and purposes, Johnson was the only potential non-scrub piece of that trade.

Is it not rational to criticize the lack of vision for getting a 19 yr old prospect who is three years away now? This ain't Banchero or Smith who will contribute from Day 1. Johnson's ceiling might be Powell, and he'll get there maybe in 2025.

Is it also not rational to think we woulda been better served not moving Powell at all now if these were the offers we were getting? Unless Bledsoe gets moved by Thursday, this will have been completely pointless.
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Powell is on a very team-friendly 5 year deal. Unlike RoCo or Nurkic, there was no potential urgency whatsoever to trade him right now.
 
riverman said:
hey...you're beating a dead horse...it's over....I don't spin it...I just don't think we lost all that value that you seem to think we lost....we opened roster spots for more talented, younger players and saved money.....if you don't get the money part and wanted an impact player instead of tanking now...well that's on you....if we could have gotten a better deal we would have...people can accept it or overreact....we needed a better starting PF and SF for less money ....now we can do that.
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To be fair, almost everything posted on this form is post facto. We make posts based on our reactions to what has occurred. Whining about how those of us dissatisfied with our return should just get over it is silly. It would be better to just ignore reaction threads if you don't like the message.

Bottom line, a roster that is not competing for a Championship is nothing more than a collection of assets. The goal is to maximize the assets available. We neglected to do so, which is why so many are disappointed with this deal.
 
riverman said:
You ever consider Norm might have requested this trade? I think I'm the only person who's speculated about that
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I'm certain he did. And my answer would be, "You signed an extension with us, and we will trade you where we wish." Frankly, I would have been fine sitting him for the season and waiting to see what his trade value might be at a later date.
 
riverman said:
You ever consider Norm might have requested this trade? I think I'm the only person who's speculated about that
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Then his leverage in that case would be about zero. We can kindly explain to him that he signed a 5 year deal and we will honor his request when/if a favorable offer becomes available. And it doesn't hurt us any if he wants to sit in the mean time because we aren't trying to win this season anyways.
 
riverman said:
People don't like it but the deal we got was what we could get under the circumstances and probably because we didn't want to take on more salary but wanted to dump salary
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Then we should have kept Trent. Or traded him for future assets if all we planned on doing was dump Norm for hot trash.
 
riverman said:
People don't like it but the deal we got was what we could get under the circumstances and probably because we didn't want to take on more salary but wanted to dump salary
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Okay, first of all you do NOT know that, you are guessing like we all are. A lot depends on what ownership wanted/directed Cronin to do IMO, maybe we will find out and maybe not. And let me add I don't think the trade is as bad as most do. Roco was playing pretty friggin bad this year and he was worth little if anything IMO. So, if I count Roco as "meh filler" (which I do, F U Olshey) we then traded Powell for last year's 21st pick, Winslow on a cheapish/fair contract and a second rd pick for basically an expiring Bledsoe (3.9 mil next yr). So what was Powell's realistic worth? A lotto protected first and a decent player? I really don't think the trade was that bad unless one has some Roco fantasy of a 1st rd pick, obviously a lot depends on how Keon turns out and if Winslow can stay healthy and get back to where he was a few yrs ago before his injuries.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Who the fuck cares if one 20 year rookie plays better than the other 19-year rookie in their first year? Even if Boston turns out to be good, it still does not matter if Keon turns out to be good as well, and at his age no one expected him to have an impact as a rookie. You guys are nit-picking about something you have no clue how will turn out.
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How is it nit-picking? It just is what is so far. No one can predict the future, so anything looking forward is conjecture. The short reality is, so far, the Clips 2nd round pick was by far out-playing their 1st round pick which we just acquired.
 
TBpup said:
How is it nit-picking? It just is what is so far. No one can predict the future, so anything looking forward is conjecture. The short reality is, so far, the Clips 2nd round pick was by far out-playing their 1st round pick which we just acquired.
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Again who cares that Brandon Boston has outplayed him so far? Good for him that yet another 2nd round pick has excelled. There is not much difference these days between non-lottery rookies and 2nd rounders. We see it all the time.
Brandon Boston getting out to a quick start has no bearing on how Keon will turn out. It means nothing at this point As you said, no one can predict the future.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Then move Dame for a boatload of assets.

Still, moving two starters for what we got is horrible value. If you want to blow it up get future assets.

1st rounds picks are like lottery tickets. Getting Keon is like a half scratched lotto ticket that doesn't have as much value as a future 1st would because everyone has seen he isn't doing shit. Even though the Clippers have all these injuries. Doesn't mean he won't eventually. But, part of the mystery is gone.
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Bingo. Any 1st round pick in the next draft is worth more than a player that has already shown he can't contribute. People will go on and on about where this Keon kid was drafted, his age, the fact his granny had 3 nipples and a flipper for a left hind foot, etc. Who cares? When apologists talk about everything except a player's on-court performance, that should tell you all you need to know.
 
riverman said:
Am I mistaken or did you just post about the kid without talking about his on the court performance? He's barely broken a sweat in the NBA....
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With multiple injuries on his team. Should tell you how valued he currently is.

Again. He is young, and he could someday become something. But across the league now, a future 1st would have more value.
 
riverman said:
People don't like it but the deal we got was what we could get under the circumstances and probably because we didn't want to take on more salary but wanted to dump salary
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You do realize the contradiction in your statement? If this was a financially driven deal it wasn't "what we could get" - it is exactly what the front office wanted. Cronin didn't blow a tire and lose control of his car, he intentionally drove onto the sidewalk and ran down the fans.
 
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