Kevin Love AGAIN (with poll)

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Would you trade for Kevin Love?

  • Yes for anyone other than Lillard and McCollum

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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Nah man, it bugs me when people who get paid to do this stuff say things that don't make sense and everyone eats it up like it's 100% true.
I think the thing we can reasonably takeaway from this info is that we are seemingly OK with making the massive longterm financial commitment for Love, albeit without giving up any assets to get him. This was also earlier in the season when we figured Nurk would be back in Feb and we were still more likely to get to #8 than we are now.

Plans change. I keep saying it, I think Nurk's calf strain and setback threw a wrench into Neil's plans.
 
I think the thing we can reasonably takeaway from this info is that we are seemingly OK with making the massive longterm financial commitment for Love, albeit without giving up any assets to get him. This was also earlier in the season when we figured Nurk would be back in Feb and we were still more likely to get to #8 than we are now.

Plans change. I keep saying it, I think Nurk's calf strain and setback threw a wrench into Neil's plans.
This line of thinking is exactly why it makes me mad that people believe this crap, lol.

Every. Single. Decision. Portland has made since the season started has been financially motivated but now because some guy reports some rumor that isn't even possible under the CBA people assume this means Portland was willing to take on Love's contract?

The only way this makes sense to me is if it got Portland completely out of the tax this season but trading straight up with Cleveland would be very difficult to achieve that.
 
See I don't get this line of thinking because to me that is just an excuse for mismanaging the cap. Skal had been fine this year, especially considering in my opinion he's more of a PF than a true C. He was often playing C with all guards around him (ironically until the game he got hurt). Not wanting to keep a young athletic big with that skill set who would likely be cheap to re-sign in the off season and still has some potential to pop brings around a whole new set of questions.

Yeah I agree Skal is strictly a PF, and that’s why I think it’s possible Olshey could’ve just decided Gabriel was a better project (I would agree) as he offers a little more versatility and more intriguing skillset.
 
I mean, you know for a fact that Portland has been trying to save money.

Love and TT doesn't do that.

Love and Dellavedova would put Cleveland deep into the tax without any compensation for doing so?

C'mon, you're a smart poster when it comes to cap stuff. Does this really make sense to you?
Teams priorities and goals change over the course of the season.
Early December, Portland's offer could've easily been for Love & TT. By mid-January the Blazers season is going to pot & they decide to pivot and try and save $.
 
Would Skal’s cap hold of a little over 7 million going into free agency had any affect on our ability to do trades/use mid level and other exemptions this summer have been a factor in this?
Nope. Skal could have been signed with Bird Rights - thus not impacting the ability to use the MLE or other exceptions.
 
Teams priorities and goals change over the course of the season.
Early December, Portland's offer could've easily been for Love & TT. By mid-January the Blazers season is going to pot & they decide to pivot and try and save $.
Sure, the Hood injury likely changed everything for this season but in other statements that Cleveland reporter suggests that this offer was on the table until Bazemore was traded which doesn't match what is actually occurring with the Blazers.
 
Yeah I agree Skal is strictly a PF, and that’s why I think it’s possible Olshey could’ve just decided Gabriel was a better project (I would agree) as he offers a little more versatility and more intriguing skillset.
With all the positive things they've said about Skal and his development and the fact both he and Gabriel were restricted free agents plus the fact that Gabriel had played less than 26 minutes for the Blazers at the time of the Skal trade, I have a hard time believing that they knew Gabriel was a keeper and Skal wasn't. You could be right, I just wish $2 million wasn't worth giving up on one of them.
 
so capholds for bird rights only affect teams below the salary cap and then only impacts the amount available to sign free agents. correct? and thank you.

Nope. Skal could have been signed with Bird Rights - thus not impacting the ability to use the MLE or other exceptions.
 
so capholds for bird rights only affect teams below the salary cap and then only impacts the amount available to sign free agents. correct? and thank you.
Basically yeah, the cap holds would have to be renounced (thus losing the bird rights) if you wanted to use cap space but if you're over the cap it doesn't matter other than trying to forecast if a team has the Full-MLE or the Tax-MLE available.

For example the Blazers have Whiteside's full bird rights. So if they signed someone to the Full-MLE and got hard capped it would possibly put a limit on how much they could offer Whiteside but it wouldn't change them being able to sign him up to that amount without having to use an exception.
 
Basically yeah, the cap holds would have to be renounced (thus losing the bird rights) if you wanted to use cap space but if you're over the cap it doesn't matter other than trying to forecast if a team has the Full-MLE or the Tax-MLE available.

For example the Blazers have Whiteside's full bird rights. So if they signed someone to the Full-MLE and got hard capped it would possibly put a limit on how much they could offer Whiteside but it wouldn't change them being able to sign him up to that amount without having to use an exception.
so despite the bird rights to skal, signing would have been problematic if the priorities were young whiteside and 'free agent X' at the full MLE, and staying below the hardcap depending on whitesides offer? possibly gabriel also impacts and is impacted by these other signings though to a lesser extent? Melo? seems flexibility for using trade exemptions impacted too? what is really available this offseason money wise if the blazers use the full MLE and then wish to avoid hard cap and/or the apron's limitations on trades and flexibility in executing them?Not the number if the blazers were going all in but being prudent till viewing next years group and their performance on the court. a very rough figure is enough to satisfy my curiosity. thank you. For using your brain and experience manuevering around the cba.
 
I'm extremely skeptical that the Blazers would have traded expiring contracts for 31M in additional salary over the next 3 seasons. That's guaranteed repeater tax the season after next, and the season after that. In fact, I don't believe it
 
I'm extremely skeptical that the Blazers would have traded expiring contracts for 31M in additional salary over the next 3 seasons. That's guaranteed repeater tax the season after next, and the season after that. In fact, I don't believe it

Why not? It’s not coming from Portland. Love is exactly the type of player Olshey gets hard for.
 
I'm extremely skeptical that the Blazers would have traded expiring contracts for 31M in additional salary over the next 3 seasons. That's guaranteed repeater tax the season after next, and the season after that. In fact, I don't believe it
Agreed! The only way it makes even a tiny bit of sense is if it got Portland completely out of the tax this season to do so. Cleveland would not really be in a position to do that on their own.
 
Why not? It’s not coming from Portland. Love is exactly the type of player Olshey gets hard for.

well, I said right in that post 'why not'. In a season decimated by injuries, and when they are making moves based on reducing tax, the Blazers decide to trade for one of the most often injured players in the league, while just about guaranteeing huge repeater tax for two seasons? It simply doesn't compute
 
well, I said right in that post 'why not'. In a season decimated by injuries, and when they are making moves based on reducing tax, the Blazers decide to trade for one of the most often injured players in the league, while just about guaranteeing huge repeater tax for two seasons? It simply doesn't compute

A trade for Love wouldn’t have been just about this season though. And so far I have yet to see any actual evidence that avoiding the tax is a priority (Shit, they added to it when they traded for Whiteside.) If it was, they would’ve/could’ve/may have just attached assets (like a pick) to Whiteside and gotten under. Shaving a couple mil off the bill after they’ve realized there were no other trades to make isn’t really the same thing.
 
so despite the bird rights to skal, signing would have been problematic if the priorities were young whiteside and 'free agent X' at the full MLE, and staying below the hardcap depending on whitesides offer? possibly gabriel also impacts and is impacted by these other signings though to a lesser extent? Melo? seems flexibility for using trade exemptions impacted too? what is really available this offseason money wise if the blazers use the full MLE and then wish to avoid hard cap and/or the apron's limitations on trades and flexibility in executing them?Not the number if the blazers were going all in but being prudent till viewing next years group and their performance on the court. a very rough figure is enough to satisfy my curiosity. thank you. For using your brain and experience manuevering around the cba.
I'm in the process of editing a video going in depth on the Blazers summer options in terms of the cap but basically...

The Ariza decision also comes into play here. They can either waive him by June 30th and take a $1.8 million dead cap hit or keep him on the team for $12.8 million. I'm assuming both Hood and Hezonja will opt in and that the Blazers will not want to be a tax paying team next year.

If Ariza is waived they have about $33 million to sign 4 players after factoring in draft picks. The Full-MLE is going to be around $9.7 million so they could use that, sign Gabriel to about $2 million, sign one other free agent for the Bi-Annual Exception at around $3.8 million, and that leaves them with one roster spot for Whiteside which they could pay him up to about $17 million as a starting salary. If Whiteside isn't re-signed or signs on another team the Blazers would only be able to offer a minimum contract to whoever they picked up. If we predict Whiteside re-signing then we'd have Dame, CJ, Hood (injured?), Trent, Simons, Little, Hezonja, Gabriel, Collins, Nurk, Whiteside, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, MLE, and BAE signings. If Hood isn't 100% that leaves us pretty thin at SF depending on who the MLE was. So......

That almost means Ariza needs to be kept as the starting SF, in which case they'd have $22 million to play with before going into the tax and after signing their picks with just 3 roster spots remaining. Sign Gabriel for $1.75 million (or whatever his minimum ends up being) and the Full-MLE at $9.76 million and that leaves the max offer for Whiteside and not going into the tax at $10.5 million. If they were willing to go into the tax we could offer him up to $16.5 million in that scenario and then try to get under the tax later in the season but after the penny pinching moves this season that seems unlikely. They could also only use the Tax-MLE of $6 million to free up more money for Whiteside and not go into the tax but then you're talking about getting a lesser quality player. I guess it just depends on who's willing to sign here. A guy like say Marvin Williams wouldn't probably command the Full-MLE so you could maybe get him for the Tax-MLE, who knows?

So the question is would Whiteside sign for $10.5 million in year one to maximize Portland's ability to keep Ariza and use the Full-MLE? I'm not sure. It's more than any other team that can only offer the Full-MLE of $9.76 so maybe he'd take it but if one of those teams are offering a starting job is it worth taking a million less to play more? Not sure of that either.

Another thing is that this pretty much leaves Melo out of most scenarios unless you think he's worth using the MLE or BAE to retain. We do not have bird rights on him so he'd either have to sign for the minimum or using one of those two exceptions. We also have the trade exception of $7.1 million to add a player that route if needed but that cuts into the money elsewhere.
 
I'm in the process of editing a video going in depth on the Blazers summer options in terms of the cap but basically...

The Ariza decision also comes into play here. They can either waive him by June 30th and take a $1.8 million dead cap hit or keep him on the team for $12.8 million. I'm assuming both Hood and Hezonja will opt in and that the Blazers will not want to be a tax paying team next year.

If Ariza is waived they have about $33 million to sign 4 players after factoring in draft picks. The Full-MLE is going to be around $9.7 million so they could use that, sign Gabriel to about $2 million, sign one other free agent for the Bi-Annual Exception at around $3.8 million, and that leaves them with one roster spot for Whiteside which they could pay him up to about $17 million as a starting salary. If Whiteside isn't re-signed or signs on another team the Blazers would only be able to offer a minimum contract to whoever they picked up. If we predict Whiteside re-signing then we'd have Dame, CJ, Hood (injured?), Trent, Simons, Little, Hezonja, Gabriel, Collins, Nurk, Whiteside, 1st round pick, 2nd round pick, MLE, and BAE signings. If Hood isn't 100% that leaves us pretty thin at SF depending on who the MLE was. So......

That almost means Ariza needs to be kept as the starting SF, in which case they'd have $22 million to play with before going into the tax and after signing their picks with just 3 roster spots remaining. Sign Gabriel for $1.75 million (or whatever his minimum ends up being) and the Full-MLE at $9.76 million and that leaves the max offer for Whiteside and not going into the tax at $10.5 million. If they were willing to go into the tax we could offer him up to $16.5 million in that scenario and then try to get under the tax later in the season but after the penny pinching moves this season that seems unlikely. They could also only use the Tax-MLE of $6 million to free up more money for Whiteside and not go into the tax but then you're talking about getting a lesser quality player. I guess it just depends on who's willing to sign here. A guy like say Marvin Williams wouldn't probably command the Full-MLE so you could maybe get him for the Tax-MLE, who knows?

So the question is would Whiteside sign for $10.5 million in year one to maximize Portland's ability to keep Ariza and use the Full-MLE? I'm not sure. It's more than any other team that can only offer the Full-MLE of $9.76 so maybe he'd take it but if one of those teams are offering a starting job is it worth taking a million less to play more? Not sure of that either.

Another thing is that this pretty much leaves Melo out of most scenarios unless you think he's worth using the MLE or BAE to retain. We do not have bird rights on him so he'd either have to sign for the minimum or using one of those two exceptions. We also have the trade exception of $7.1 million to add a player that route if needed but that cuts into the money elsewhere.
very generous of your time, thank you and please let me know when video is polished up.
 
So now it comes out the Blazers did indeed offer a trade package for Kevin Love. Cavs didn't accept the offer. It would have been a good deal if they would have got it done looking at the possibilities.
 
Someone can check the math, but off the top of my head, I think that trading Whiteside and Bazemore plus a pick to the Cavs for Love and John Henson (who they dumped to Detroit in the Drummond deal), would have worked from a cap standpoint and would have moved the Blazers under the LT for this season.
 
Someone can check the math, but off the top of my head, I think that trading Whiteside and Bazemore plus a pick to the Cavs for Love and John Henson (who they dumped to Detroit in the Drummond deal), would have worked from a cap standpoint and would have moved the Blazers under the LT for this season.
Yes, it would've gotten the Blazers out of the tax BUT it would have taken Cleveland from a non-tax team to the highest salary in the league and give them a huge tax payment. For one of the worst team's in the league there is no way they would've done that without being compensated to do so. That's why I don't buy that this was being discussed. The guy also said that those two matched the salary of Love, not that it would be an unbalanced trade.
 
Yes, it would've gotten the Blazers out of the tax BUT it would have taken Cleveland from a non-tax team to the highest salary in the league and give them a huge tax payment. For one of the worst team's in the league there is no way they would've done that without being compensated to do so. That's why I don't buy that this was being discussed. The guy also said that those two matched the salary of Love, not that it would be an unbalanced trade.
The word is they also wanted picks. That would make more sense.
 
The word is they also wanted picks. That would make more sense.
I feel like you missed several pages of this thread discussing this yesterday, lol.

No team offered a pick. In fact if this guy is to be believed Portland sounds like the only team that didn't ask Cleveland to be the one including the pick.
 
I believe it. I think Love has always been a target and he'll probably remain a target.
 
Portland sounds like the only team that didn't ask Cleveland to be the one including the pick.
Portland was asking to move both Whiteside and Bazemore.
I would not think asking for a pick also would be reasonable. Thus my statement. "They wanted picks". Cleveland wanted picks.
It is understandable why Cleveland didn't want that deal. It is also understandable why Portland didn't want to give up draft picks.
 
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