Kevin Love - Possible?

[LayneStaley]

See? Because we made dumb "trade for difference makers now!!11!" trades, we didn't have draft picks for cost-controlled young players. We didn't have players in place that we could could on to take Crabbe's spot when he got offered his deal. We didn't want to let our backup center go for free without getting a new one, which would have cost more (google "Mozgov"). We now are building a pipeline of talent, so that if someone wants Mo for cap space this summer, we have options. If we get a good value for Chief or Ed, we have options. If Pat or Shabazz gets offered big money, we don't have as many options. If we'd have had a closer-to-prime-time Pat, things look a lot different in 2016.

Not having players in the pipeline is why we overpaid 5 players that offseason? Hmm ok

I give up, we see this a little different, that’s cool though.

 

[jlprk]

We should focus in the following order:
1) Team amenities. Make it so that players want to come here, are comfortable when they are here, play their best here, and want to stay when they're done here. Nothing goes against the salary cap. Barbershop in the PF. Catered lunches. New whirlpools. Doctors and training staff that do aggressive prevention of injuries.
2) Draft picks. a) Fixed-cost contracts...you know exactly what you're spending and don't have to negotiate. b) it's a captive audience...you don't have to have the player's permission or another team's. c) You have at least 5 years of team control, and usually 8-9 if you want it.
3) FA. You don't have to do anything except a) have enough cap space (problematic) and b) get the player to want to come here. See #1.
4) Trades. You have to have your team buy off on it, their team buy off on it, the player not be disrupted due to the move, or chemistry concerns post-trade.

Maybe you have 20 years to wait, but most of us are bored and want change.

See? Because we made dumb "trade for difference makers now!!11!" trades, we didn't have draft picks for cost-controlled young players.

No, it's because Olshey overpaid everyone and is handcuffed now. For example, he misjudged McCollum to be another Lillard.

 

[ripcityboy]

I still think we work at dumping a bad contract a year, and we got a chance to turn this thing around. I actually think the hard part will be keeping Dame happy but if Collins improves and we add decent players for a run in a couple of years.... there is no reason to think we can't be contenders. Dame is what 28? That will be the rub I think. But Collins has every chance of being the third star.

 

[calvin natt]

I will not say fire Olshey because I like him personally, and hope he sticks around for a long time. I think people forget easily that running an nba team isn’t espn fantasy basketball. He’s hit some homeruns and has some FA misses. But he’s in Portland and he has some structural barriers that he cant get rid of (very white city, weather, up here all by ourselves). The team has always competed, gone to playoffs, had some good runs. Also- do not ever forget that owners, including PA, both shoot down trade ideas and conversely force trades that the GM isn’t supportive of. Not everything is on Neil. If he gets fired tomorrow he will go to work very quickly (in Oakland BTW).

 

[LayneStaley]

Maybe you have 20 years to wait, but most of us are bored and want change.



No, it's because Olshey overpaid everyone and is handcuffed now. For example, he misjudged McCollum to be another Lillard.

Jlprk is correct in every word of this post. I like CJ but is he the 19th best player in the league? Or a top 3 SG? That’s what he’s paid as. That was the worst offseason for any gm I can think of, 5 horrible contracts, that’s close to half the roster!

 

[daddylogan]

I agree RipCityBoy....and Collins, even though offensively has plenty of room to grow, is a very SMART player. I watch every game and he plays smart out there and that is half the battle with a rookie. His offensive game will come when he builds some body mass and his outside shot is already looking decent. Back to my original post, I think there are a few options to get Kevin Love here and dump one of those "bad contracts" that are basically just sitting on the bench! I do like Evan but I would presume he will be part of trade talks just because of the inconsistent play and he is a mid level player. I really had high hopes for him and maybe he will work out? The player I think needs to go is Chief. I have tried to warm up to his playing style and I just don't see the same player on a day to day basis. He might have a good game every 4 or 5 games, his ball handling is horrible, has zero strength or finesse at the rim offensively. He actually started to look like improvement was on the horizon and then he has a game like he had in Denver. I just don't see a deep playoff run with him.

 

[BonesJones]

Jlprk is correct in every word of this post. I like CJ but is he the 19th best player in the league? Or a top 3 SG? That’s what he’s paid as. That was the worst offseason for any gm I can think of, 5 horrible contracts, that’s close to half the roster!

He's not a horrible contract man what the hell are you talking about?

 

[BonesJones]

The way the new guys come rolling in declaring CJ as a "horrible contract" makes me want to go full HCP. The longer I'm around here the more I feel it creeping up in my veins. For fucks sake.

 

[LayneStaley]

The way the new guys come rolling in declaring CJ as a "horrible contract" makes me want to go full HCP. The longer I'm around here the more I feel it creeping up in my veins. For fucks sake.

Why would it matter if I’m new around here? I’m not new to message boards or blazer knowledge, unless there’s some rule on the board about homerism or something? 4/$106 mil for a one way SG isn’t a bargain. If you think he’s a a top 3 sg in nba like he’s paid cool, I don’t.

 

[LayneStaley]

It is a bargain compared to what Myers/Hark/and Turner make for what production they offer compared to CJ if that’s better.

 

[SwissBlazer]

When i saw 5 new pages i thought there has been a major news overnight...

 

[BonesJones]

Jlprk is correct in every word of this post. I like CJ but is he the 19th best player in the league? Or a top 3 SG? That’s what he’s paid as. That was the worst offseason for any gm I can think of, 5 horrible contracts, that’s close to half the roster!

Just because some guys that are better than CJ remain underpaid doesn't mean shit.

 

[BonesJones]

Why would it matter if I’m new around here? I’m not new to message boards or blazer knowledge, unless there’s some rule on the board about homerism or something? 4/$106 mil for a one way SG isn’t a bargain. If you think he’s a a top 3 sg in nba like he’s paid cool, I don’t.

It just seems like every new poster we get thinks Dame or CJ is vastly overrated and we should trade them away for low value.

The whole ranking his contract value in terms of position or across the NBA and then saying "he's not that rank in terms of ability therefore he's overpaid" is utterly ridiculous.

Why? For example, CJ is making slightly more than Bradley Beal, however both of them are on MAX contracts and Beal is only making slightly less than McCollum because his contract kicked in sooner. You're stripping the context straight out of his contract and applying warped logic to try and claim he's a "horrible contract". Thus warped logic goes along with a lot of new posters lately that they use against Dame or CJ. You can believe what you want but when it's almost every new goddam poster...

 

[BonesJones]

It is a bargain compared to what Myers/Hark/and Turner make for what production they offer compared to CJ if that’s better.

No shit... Meyers and Harkless offer nothing for $10M a year. Turner offers very little for $18M a year.

 

[jlprk]

When i saw 5 new pages i thought there has been a major news overnight...

There was, the day before you posted. I assume you read this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22184066/kevin-love-target-ire-cleveland-cavaliers-meeting

 

[SwissBlazer]

I did.

But from pages 3 to 8 i assumed there would have been something new.

There was, the day before you posted. I assume you read this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22184066/kevin-love-target-ire-cleveland-cavaliers-meeting

 

[jlprk]

A couple times per season, an unhappy team dumps a very good player. (Like Cousins.) Olshey needs to be ready to pounce when that happens. (He probably isn't.)

That opportunism got the thread buzzing.

 

[LayneStaley]

It just seems like every new poster we get thinks Dame or CJ is vastly overrated and we should trade them away for low value.

The whole ranking his contract value in terms of position or across the NBA and then saying "he's not that rank in terms of ability therefore he's overpaid" is utterly ridiculous.

Why? For example, CJ is making slightly more than Bradley Beal, however both of them are on MAX contracts and Beal is only making slightly less than McCollum because his contract kicked in sooner. You're stripping the context straight out of his contract and applying warped logic to try and claim he's a "horrible contract". Thus warped logic goes along with a lot of new posters lately that they use against Dame or CJ. You can believe what you want but when it's almost every new goddam poster...

I’ll clarify, what makes CJ’s contract horrible to me is the fact that it’s half of the 50 mil per year we dedicate to our backcourt when we have no SF and our best PF is a rookie. We really aren’t in a position to spend that kind of cap space on 2 players who offer the same thing while also being defensive liabilities. Would my tune change if one guy on the bench wasn’t making 17 mil and 2 other guys weren’t making 122k per DNP....Probably.....but we are stuck financially and if CJ can be traded to make the team better you do it.

 

[jlprk]

Why? For example, CJ is making slightly more than Bradley Beal, however both of them are on MAX contracts and Beal is only making slightly less than McCollum because his contract kicked in sooner.

Beal + Wall = McCollum + Lillard minus $9 million/year. The Wizards are balanced with Otto Porter at SF.

 

[BonesJones]

Beal + Wall = McCollum + Lillard minus $9 million/year. The Wizards are balanced with Otto Porter at SF.

Yet, they're 26-21 compared to our 26-22. And define "balance". The have a mediocre scorer at SF? Is that all we need to do to get "balance"?

 

[BonesJones]

I’ll clarify, what makes CJ’s contract horrible to me is the fact that it’s half of the 50 mil per year we dedicate to our backcourt when we have no SF and our best PF is a rookie. We really aren’t in a position to spend that kind of cap space on 2 players who offer the same thing while also being defensive liabilities. Would my tune change if one guy on the bench wasn’t making 17 mil and 2 other guys weren’t making 122k per DNP....Probably.....but we are stuck financially and if CJ can be traded to make the team better you do it.

So what's the solution? Trade CJ for Love? Then we have no SG.

Our best PF is Aminu. Not Collins. And I'm a huge Collins fan and I'm not an Aminu apologist.

We don't have a good option at SF. Turner's been ok (having his most efficient season ever), but not great. What does that have to do with CJ's contract?

You can never have enough good perimeter scorers. To think we only need one is ridiculous. Why is "backcourt duplication" in terms of top level scorers a bad thing? It's not like they struggle to play off of each other (like OKC) as both are good spot up shooters and good at attacking closeouts.

And Dame is no longer a defensive liability.

So CJs contract wouldn't be awful if we weren't paying Turner, Meyers, and Harkless? That makes no sense. Our cap situation is bad and it's because those latter 3's contracts are awful value. C.J. is worth his contract.

Do you trade him if it makes the team noticeably better? Yes. Is there a deal to be had involving him that makes us noticeably better? Probably not. If we want to win we need to add to our backcourt, not swap around players of equal caliber.

 

[jlprk]

Yet, they're 26-21 compared to our 26-22. And define "balance". The have a mediocre scorer at SF? Is that all we need to do to get "balance"?

Porter: 3P% .426, 2P% .515 (.576 last year), FT% .823. Want more than shooting? PER 17, 3rd pick in the draft, age 24.

 

[LayneStaley]

So what's the solution? Trade CJ for Love? Then we have no SG.

Our best PF is Aminu. Not Collins. And I'm a huge Collins fan and I'm not an Aminu apologist.

We don't have a good option at SF. Turner's been ok (having his most efficient season ever), but not great. What does that have to do with CJ's contract?

You can never have enough good perimeter scorers. To think we only need one is ridiculous. Why is "backcourt duplication" in terms of top level scorers a bad thing? It's not like they struggle to play off of each other (like OKC) as both are good spot up shooters and good at attacking closeouts.

And Dame is no longer a defensive liability.

So CJs contract wouldn't be awful if we weren't paying Turner, Meyers, and Harkless? That makes no sense. Our cap situation is bad and it's because those latter 3's contracts are awful value. C.J. is worth his contract.

Do you trade him if it makes the team noticeably better? Yes. Is there a deal to be had involving him that makes us noticeably better? Probably not. If we want to win we need to add to our backcourt, not swap around players of equal caliber.

First, I don’t think either of us knows if theres a deal to be had or not. Second, when did I say trade cj for love? Finally, overpaying those guys does make his contract bad because with them all together it leaves zero cap to improve this team. If the other contracts didn’t exist then we could live with paying a one-way sg 4/$106 mil but because of all the bad contracts we need to be a lot more picky on what players get maxed in regards to what they offer or how they compliment the team. I wouldn’t be bitching about the 4/$106 mil if he was a lockdown 3&D wing.

 

[LayneStaley]

If you could get an equally good sf for cj you do it in a min.

 

[BonesJones]

Porter: 3P% .426, 2P% .515 (.576 last year), FT% .823. Want more than shooting? PER 17, 3rd pick in the draft, age 24.

I said mediocre, not inefficient.

 

[BonesJones]

First, I don’t think either of us knows if theres a deal to be had or not. Second, when did I say trade cj for love? Finally, overpaying those guys does make his contract bad because with them all together it leaves zero cap to improve this team. If the other contracts didn’t exist then we could live with paying a one-way sg 4/$106 mil but because of all the bad contracts we need to be a lot more picky on what players get maxed in regards to what they offer or how they compliment the team. I wouldn’t be bitching about the 4/$106 mil if he was a lockdown 3&D wing.

Even without CJ and Turner, we so wouldn't have the cap to sign someone of CJs level, let alone the ability to (we're Portland).

The other deals are horrible. No matter the cap space, were never going to sign someone on CJs level. So I don't know why you're acting like cap space is some valuable thing were missing out on.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Why would it matter if I’m new around here? I’m not new to message boards or blazer knowledge, unless there’s some rule on the board about homerism or something? 4/$106 mil for a one way SG isn’t a bargain. If you think he’s a a top 3 sg in nba like he’s paid cool, I don’t.

Still waiting for your list of at least one player on every team that's better than C.J. please start with:

Sacramento:

Lakers:

Dallas:

Orlando:

Brooklyn:

Chicago:

Charlotte:

Atlanta:

New poster, or not, when you use hyperbole to try to "prove" your point, you're going to get called on it.

So, either back it up, or admit you were wrong and overstated your case.

BNM

 

[LayneStaley]

Still waiting for your list of at least one player on every team that's better than C.J. please start with:

Sacramento:

Lakers:

Dallas:

Orlando:

Brooklyn:

Chicago:

Charlotte:

Atlanta:

New poster, or not, when you use hyperbole to try to "prove" your point, you're going to get called on it.

So, either back it up, or admit you were wrong and overstated your case.

BNM

Atlanta Hawks Full Rebuild
Boston Celtics Irving/Tatum/Gordon
Brooklyn Nets Full Rebuild
Charlotte Hornets Kemba
Bulls Tempted to say Markkanen
Cleveland Cavaliers LBJ/Love
Dallas Mavericks DSJ
Denver Nuggets Jokic/Murray
Detroit Pistons Drummond/Harris
Golden State Warriors 4/5 of the starter
Houston Rockets CP3/Harden
Indiana Pacers Olidaplo
LA Clippers Griffin
Los Angeles Lakers Kuzma
Memphis Grizzlies Conley
Miami Heat Whiteside
Milwaukee Bucks Middleton/Freak
Timberwolves Butler/KAT/Wiggins
New Orleans Pelicans Boogie/Davis
New York Knicks Porz
Oklahoma City Thunder RW/PG3
Orlando Magic Gordon
Philadelphia 76ers Simmons/Joel
Phoenix Suns Booker
Portland Trail Blazers Dame
Sacramento Kings Full Rebuild
San Antonio Spurs KL
Toronto Raptors Derozen/Lowry
Utah Jazz Mitchel
Washington Wizards Wall/Beal

Congrats there are 3 teams in full rebuild that have ZERO talent, I said 28 and came up with 27(yes pdx counts cause I said 27 teams have someone I’d trade cj for and I would trade him for dame) maybe the fact that 13(roughly half) have 2-4 players ea can count for that missing 28th team. This is my opinion so before any keyboard warriors lose their shit remember it’s a message board and it’s a lot more fun when everyone doesn’t have the EXACT same opinion.

 

[LayneStaley]

Even without CJ and Turner, we so wouldn't have the cap to sign someone of CJs level, let alone the ability to (we're Portland).

The other deals are horrible. No matter the cap space, were never going to sign someone on CJs level. So I don't know why you're acting like cap space is some valuable thing were missing out on.

I just typed out a mega post so I’m not gonna get into how cap space helps in making a trade but it does.

 

[e_blazer]

Atlanta Hawks Full Rebuild
Boston Celtics Irving/Tatum/Gordon
Brooklyn Nets Full Rebuild
Charlotte Hornets Kemba
Bulls Tempted to say Markkanen
Cleveland Cavaliers LBJ/Love
Dallas Mavericks DSJ
Denver Nuggets Jokic/Murray
Detroit Pistons Drummond/Harris
Golden State Warriors 4/5 of the starter
Houston Rockets CP3/Harden
Indiana Pacers Olidaplo
LA Clippers Griffin
Los Angeles Lakers Kuzma
Memphis Grizzlies Conley
Miami Heat Whiteside
Milwaukee Bucks Middleton/Freak
Timberwolves Butler/KAT/Wiggins
New Orleans Pelicans Boogie/Davis
New York Knicks Porz
Oklahoma City Thunder RW/PG3
Orlando Magic Gordon
Philadelphia 76ers Simmons/Joel
Phoenix Suns Booker
Portland Trail Blazers Dame
Sacramento Kings Full Rebuild
San Antonio Spurs KL
Toronto Raptors Derozen/Lowry
Utah Jazz Mitchel
Washington Wizards Wall/Beal

Congrats there are 3 teams in full rebuild that have ZERO talent, I said 28 and came up with 27(yes pdx counts cause I said 27 teams have someone I’d trade cj for and I would trade him for dame) maybe that fact that 13(roughly half) have 2-4 players ea can count for that missing 28th team. This is my opinion so before any keyboard warriors lose their shit remember it’s a message board and it’s a lot more fun when everyone doesn’t have the EXACT same opinion.

Well, you're sure making the board fun.