KP's blunders

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I'm only really upset about the ZBO trade and not using the RLEC as a trade-able asset.

 

[RoyToy]

I'm only really upset about the ZBO trade and not using the RLEC as a trade-able asset.

ZBO trade was a must.

Blazers had just landed Greg Oden and had an emerging LaMarcus Aldridge, but also had an overpaid Zach Randolph. Now, do you start your overpaid PF in Randolph and stunt Aldridge's growth, or do you bring the grossly overpaid Randolph off the bench? Yeah, what a crappy situation that would be.

The Blazers had to unload him and his contract and they got what they got. Maybe not the best haul, but the Knicks nor the Clippers got anything for him either. Quite frankly, Randolph hasn't been looked at as a valuable piece until this year when he's finally grown up a little bit.

Frye at least had some upside to him when the Blazers got him. What did the Knicks get for Randolph? Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas, aka cap space.

What did the Clippers get for Randolph? Quentin Richardson(who they ended up trading) to open a spot for Blake Griffin, which is exactly what the Blazers did when they drafted Oden.

Randolph has been traded 3 times in the past 3 years and Pritchard arguably got the best value for him in Frye, who at the time was thought to have some potential still.

Sorry, I don't see how the ZBO trade can be looked at as bad. I've already addressed the RLEC earlier.

Richard Jefferson? no thx
Vince Carter? no thx
Gerald Wallace? Very intriguing, but the Bobcats wanted Batum.
Andre Miller? Blazers ended up just signing him.

If there was a good deal to be made Pritchard would have made it.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The Knicks and Clippers are horribly run organizations. Historically, laughably bad.

Not sure I'd want to be grouped in with them.

The ZBO trade was rushed. To say it was a "must" within 5 minutes of drafting Greg Oden is laughable at best. I questioned KP's decision making at that time, and I kind of stand besides it. The blind trust put into him was sort of destructive.

Did not have to happen at that time for nothing. Could have at least tried it out rather than clear and hold cap space for 2 years which was essentially overrated and useless, if it was tangible whatsoever.

Point is, ZBO is now an allstar and we're eating crow.

 

[RoyToy]

The Knicks and Clippers are horribly run organizations. Historically, laughably bad.

Not sure I'd want to be grouped in with them.

The ZBO trade was rushed. To say it was a "must" within 5 minutes of drafting Greg Oden is laughable at best. I questioned KP's decision making at that time, and I kind of stand besides it. The blind trust put into him was sort of destructive.

Did not have to happen at that time for nothing. Could have at least tried it out rather than clear and hold cap space for 2 years which was essentially overrated and useless, if it was tangible whatsoever.

Point is, ZBO is now an allstar and we're eating crow.

Sorry, I just don't get how anyone can think that. ZBO needed to go. He was severely overpaid and was on the books for 4-5 more years. That's why the Blazers/Knicks/Clippers got nothing for him, not because they're terrible run organizations(although they were for acquiring him). I think it's funny the Knicks/Clippers/Grizzlies are the ones that acquired him when teams were just trying to give him away. Really tells you how valuable teams thought Randolph was.

Eating crow? Ha. I was happy the day he was traded and haven't even been close to changing my mind since.

In the end I just don't see how KP can be faulted when ZBO had no place on this team, was overpaid, and the Knicks and Clippers didn't get jack for him when they were trying to give him away. It just tells you how many teams out there wanted no part of him.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Again, the Clippers and Knicks didn't get jack from them because they are perennial losers in the front office and in the NBA. As was the mentality that Pritch/Penn had when they concocted that deal.

 

[Masbee]

ZBO trade was a must.

Blazers had just landed Greg Oden and had an emerging LaMarcus Aldridge, but also had an overpaid Zach Randolph. Now, do you start your overpaid PF in Randolph and stunt Aldridge's growth, or do you bring the grossly overpaid Randolph off the bench? Yeah, what a crappy situation that would be.

Yeah, well see, I happen to not agree.

I think "stunting" is a bit of a fallacy. Sports Urban Legend. LaMarcus would have been fine. Especially since, as it turned out, Greg didn't play.

The Blazers had to unload him and his contract and they got what they got. Maybe not the best haul, but the Knicks nor the Clippers got anything for him either. Quite frankly, Randolph hasn't been looked at as a valuable piece until this year when he's finally grown up a little bit.

That was KP's job - to polish up that POS.....THEN sell it.

How hard is that to grasp? Unless there was an imminent disaster looming - which turns out there wasn't - waiting a while would have been a wait for possible upside. The chances of having to take a crappier deal than what was a pretty lame deal was low. Eating Steve Francis' contract was a BITTER, NASTY pill to have to swallow. And Frye coming off a horrible year with the Knicks. Yippie.

Holdinging on to Zach would have been low downside risk, high upside risk. When you are rebuilding you take that.

Frye at least had some upside to him when the Blazers got him. What did the Knicks get for Randolph? Cuttino Mobley and Tim Thomas, aka cap space.

I don't care about the Knicks. And we didn't even get cap space. See above.

What did the Clippers get for Randolph? Quentin Richardson(who they ended up trading) to open a spot for Blake Griffin, which is exactly what the Blazers did when they drafted Oden.

Cap space, which we didn't even get when we shipped Zach. See above.

Randolph has been traded 3 times in the past 3 years and Pritchard arguably got the best value for him in Frye, who at the time was thought to have some potential still.

Umm, not by New York, who wouldn't have traded Frye unless they thought he wasn't going to be a good player.

Sorry, I don't see how the ZBO trade can be looked at as bad. I've already addressed the RLEC earlier.

Richard Jefferson? no thx
Vince Carter? no thx
Gerald Wallace? Very intriguing, but the Bobcats wanted Batum.
Andre Miller? Blazers ended up just signing him.

If there was a good deal to be made Pritchard would have made it.

Wow, really? If KP walked onto the Mercedes lot and saw a brand new E Class with a sticker for $20,000 he would have taken it? Good. Anybody can buy or not buy what is out there. What about making deals HAPPEN?

What we do know is that KP didn't get any exciting trades done. All during a period when there have been moves made by other teams. May or may not have been KP's "fault". All we can know for sure is that KP and other Blazer folk made a big deal out of the Blazer's being a team on the rise and that we dumped Zach and Darius and others so we "according to a great plan" would have the "Golden Ticket" and if that didn't work mondo cap space to bring aboard a fantastic player that would complete the core and have a contending quality roster for years to come.

At the very least KP is guilty of gross overselling of his position and the value of his assets and/or his abilities.

 

[RoyToy]

Yeah, well see, I happen to not agree.

I think "stunting" is a bit of a fallacy. Sports Urban Legend. LaMarcus would have been fine. Especially since, as it turned out, Greg didn't play.

That was KP's job - to polish up that POS.....THEN sell it.

Sorry, no team wanted a part of Zach Randolph except the bottom teams in the league. That tells you he has a really low value around the league and it worth giving up anything for How hard is that to grasp?

Aldridge ended up averaging 17/7 that year compared to Randolph's 17/10, except Aldridge made about 1/3 that Randolph did.

How hard is that to grasp? Unless there was an imminent disaster looming - which turns out there wasn't - waiting a while would have been a wait for possible upside. The chances of having to take a crappier deal than what was a pretty lame deal was low. Eating Steve Francis' contract was a BITTER, NASTY pill to have to swallow. And Frye coming off a horrible year with the Knicks. Yippie.

Holdinging on to Zach would have been low downside risk, high upside risk. When you are rebuilding you take that.

Lol, there was going to be no possible upside with Zach. He was an inefficient ball hog that played absolutely no defense, and his contract wasn't going to change. I'll repeat it again, no one wanted to pay his ridiculous contract when you consider the type of player he is.

Randolph's contract was just as nasty as Francis', if not more considering there were 3 more years on it.

I don't care about the Knicks. And we didn't even get cap space. See above.

Are the Blazers still paying Randolph? Did the Blazers not have money in FA last year?

Cap space, which we didn't even get when we shipped Zach. See above.

Are the Blazers still paying Randolph? Did the Blazers not have money in FA last year?

Umm, not by New York, who wouldn't have traded Frye unless they thought he wasn't going to be a good player.

He was only 24, and has actually been a decent player for Phoenix this year. He had a lot of good games for the Blazers as well. He was also a guy Pritchard thought highly of coming out of the draft. Compare that to Tim Thomas(is he still playing?), Cuttino Mobley(didn't even play for NY), Mardy Collins(lol), Quentin Richardson(eww). I'd easily take Frye over any of them. Not even close.

Wow, really? If KP walked onto the Mercedes lot and saw a brand new E Class with a sticker for $20,000 he would have taken it? Good. Anybody can buy or not buy what is out there. What about making deals HAPPEN?

What we do know is that KP didn't get any exciting trades done. All during a period when there have been moves made by other teams. May or may not have been KP's "fault". All we can know for sure is that KP and other Blazer folk made a big deal out of the Blazer's being a team on the rise and that we dumped Zach and Darius and others so we "according to a great plan" would have the "Golden Ticket" and if that didn't work mondo cap space to bring aboard a fantastic player that would complete the core and have a contending quality roster for years to come.

At the very least KP is guilty of gross overselling of his position and the value of his assets and/or his abilities.

That cap space helped acquire Andre Miller in FA, a guy they were targeting at the trade deadline. Wouldn't you say Andre Miller has worked out?

Also, not everyone is out there trying to give up a young piece of their future to the Blazers' future, unless the Blazers give up something of their future(Roy,Aldridge). Sorry KP can't make these miracle deals happen that you want him to.

Teams oversell their pieces all the time. Big deal. Maybe you shouldn't be so easily influenced and check your expectations. Also don't expect teams around the league to buy what KP is selling. It's his job to talk up his team.

 

[drexlersdad]

wow zbo rehash?

he is on a .500 team and all of the sudden kp got fleeced 3 years ago??? lol where were all you guys when zbo was in ny?

btw, next year zbo is an expiring, maybe, just maybe, he is playing for another contract??

no thanks, and good riddance.

 

[RoyToy]

Just some perspective:

Randolph signed a 6 year $84M contract with the Blazers

Roy signed a 5 year $82M contract with the Blazers

Randolph literally has one of the most untradeable contracts in the NBA, especially when you consider he'll still be under contract for 2010 FA, a year in FA teams have been planning for for 2-3 years. That's why it was impossible to get anything for him, and the other teams just taking the contract was enough. That's why the Blazers/Knicks/Clippers got basically scraps for him, although I still think the Blazers got a better deal than all of them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

if he's expiring, he's a huge tradeable asset next year which we would have if we kept him. If Memphis decides to even trade their All Star!

 

[RoyToy]

if he's expiring, he's a huge tradeable asset next year which we would have if we kept him. If Memphis decides to even trade their All Star!

That would have taken away the cap space for the Blazers in 2009 FA. That was the year the Blazers were targeting. That's why KP took on LaFrentz and Francis. It was just unfortunate Miles' contract got in the way in the end.

 

[ebott]

Let's cut to the chase. The issue isn't his signings, or whether he should be fired (like the irrelevant poll thread asks). The issue is, should Vulcan should cave in to Pritchard and give him the big extension and raise he has sought since last summer?

What do I, as a fan, care if KP is paid a lot?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. How did they blunder in trying to dump Miles?

Mostly in that it didn't work. They tried to do something and they failed. Ideas off the top of my head to make it work...

Wait longer to do the medical retirement. If they did it in 2009 instead of 2008 it significantly lowers our screwability.

Keep Miles around rather than unceremoniously cutting him.

Try to work something out with Miles and his Agent.

Sue somebody.

ZBO trade was a must.

I thought so at the time. I thought so at the time. I totally bought into the idea that Zach needed to go so our chemistry would be good and we would win tons of games. But our great chemistry has gotten us nowhere. I'd rather we still had someone with the talent of Zach Randolph and risk our useless chemistry.

 

[Da_O]

I don't know about you guys, but I blame 9/11 on KP.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Ah, this thread has been up so long I'm finally going to throw something out there. It keeps bothering me that we don't have an ideal PG; who for me would be somebody who could play above average defense and was either an outstanding distributor or outstanding scorer, or average at both.

And I think Kp actually made the same mistake Nash made : drafting a PG one year early, before many good PG's would be available in the draft the next year. So because Nash drafted Telfair and KP drafted Bayless, they missed out the next year. Of course Nash actually was in position to draft two outstanding guys whereas KP didn't have a very high draft pick. But what if KP had traded Jack for a future pick, what if he had traded our pick that year for a future pick? Then he would have had some real ammo for moving up and drafting someone in the PG rich class.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Ah, this thread has been up so long I'm finally going to throw something out there. It keeps bothering me that we don't have an ideal PG; who for me would be somebody who could play above average defense and was either an outstanding distributor or outstanding scorer, or average at both.

And I think Kp actually made the same mistake Nash made : drafting a PG one year early, before many good PG's would be available in the draft the next year. So because Nash drafted Telfair and KP drafted Bayless, they missed out the next year. Of course Nash actually was in position to draft two outstanding guys whereas KP didn't have a very high draft pick. But what if KP had traded Jack for a future pick, what if he had traded our pick that year for a future pick? Then he would have had some real ammo for moving up and drafting someone in the PG rich class.

You're over thinking it; if KP had wanted any of the middle round point guards in last year's draft many of them were available for nothing more than a future first (Ty Lawson in particular).

 

[ebott]

Ah, this thread has been up so long I'm finally going to throw something out there. It keeps bothering me that we don't have an ideal PG; who for me would be somebody who could play above average defense and was either an outstanding distributor or outstanding scorer, or average at both.

And I think Kp actually made the same mistake Nash made : drafting a PG one year early, before many good PG's would be available in the draft the next year. So because Nash drafted Telfair and KP drafted Bayless, they missed out the next year. Of course Nash actually was in position to draft two outstanding guys whereas KP didn't have a very high draft pick. But what if KP had traded Jack for a future pick, what if he had traded our pick that year for a future pick? Then he would have had some real ammo for moving up and drafting someone in the PG rich class.

OOOH, that's a good one. You'd think with KP's greatest achievement being the acquisition of Brandon Roy that he would put more emphasis on finding him a back court mate. Seems to me that his methodology is to acquire a wide variety of guys and hope that one of them sticks. Blake, Jack (KP didn't have any control back in 05, but there have been reports that he was instrumental in the Jack acquisition.), Sergio, Taurean Green, Bayless and Miller haven't worked out.

But I can't be too hard on him for that. Finding a good point guard to go along with a ball handling shooting guard is tough. It might take him a while to find that guy. He's still accomplished enough that he should still be paid like a real GM rather than an intern that got a promotion and should just be happy to be here.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

You're over thinking it; if KP had wanted any of the middle round point guards in last year's draft many of them were available for nothing more than a future first (Ty Lawson in particular).

Well, I believe that Denver had a future draft pick from another team (Charlotte?) that was more enticing than what we had. Also if KP didn't want another PG, I think he was wrong; and his decision was affected by his attachment to his pick Bayless, just as Nash's was affected by his decision to take Telfair earlier. (So, no I don't think I am overthinking; my assumptions may not all be correct, but i think they are reasonable assumptions.)

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, I believe that Denver had a future draft pick from another team (Charlotte?) that was more enticing than what we had. Also if KP didn't want another PG, I think he was wrong; and his decision was affected by his attachment to his pick Bayless, just as Nash's was affected by his decision to take Telfair earlier. (So, no I don't think I am overthinking; my assumptions may not all be correct, but i think they are reasonable assumptions.)

I don't know if KP is fully sold on Bayless, but everything he's said publicly seems to suggest he believes in him pretty firmly.

 

[Cake]

KP's successes.

2006 - Trading up with Chicago to get Aldridge instead of drafting Hassan Adams with the #4 pick.

2006 - Trading up with Boston, then Minnesota to get Brandon Roy, instead of drafting Ejike Ugboaja.

2007 - Buying the #24 pick to get Rudy Fernandez, instead of DJ Strawberry and a half kilo of Darryl Strawberry's cocaine.

2008 - Not signing Slavko Vranes to the midlevel exception, then immediately cutting him 15 minutes later.

2009 - Getting Dante Cunningham and Jeff Pendergraph in the 2nd round, rather than a case of Boone's farm and a Guatemalan hooker with hepatitis.

2010 - Not trading Brandon Roy at the deadline for Larry Hughes and a set of commemorative Dairy Queen Trailblazers glasses.

am I missing any?

This thread is fucking stupid.

 

[Minstrel]

2010 - Not trading Brandon Roy at the deadline for Larry Hughes and a set of commemorative Dairy Queen Trailblazers glasses.

Jury's still out!