OT LeBron James said Kyle Rittenhouse should 'knock it off' after the teen cried during murder trial (1 Viewer)

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Most of you are arguing in here that he is a dumb kid that put himself in a volatile situation and you're correct, but nothing so far has shown that he murdered anyone. Convict him of illegally owning the gun, cool. 'Convict' him of being a moron, check. I just don't see based on the evidence that has been presented that you can convict him of being a murderer.
 
bigbailes said:
Most of you are arguing in here that he is a dumb kid that put himself in a volatile situation and you're correct, but nothing so far has shown that he murdered anyone. Convict him of illegally owning the gun, cool. 'Convict' him of being a moron, check. I just don't see based on the evidence that has been presented that you can convict him of being a murderer.
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Agreed.
 
Phatguysrule said:
This seemed like the 1 charge that could really stick...
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I think there was some loophole that 17 year olds could carry a rifle, and the state didn't prove that it wasn't a rifle that would fall under that definition, hence the dismissal.

 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
I think there was some loophole that 17 year olds could carry a rifle, and the state didn't prove that it wasn't a rifle that would fall under that definition, hence the dismissal.

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Hmm... maybe during hunting season (which can actually be year round, thanks to rabbits, etc), with a hunting license? Otherwise people under 18 wouldn't be allowed to hunt. I think that's the case in Oregon too...
 
calvin natt said:
America is so Fucking stupid with its guns. My god. Absolutely pathetic.
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I understand your frustration, but guns aren't the problem, especially not rifles. Not even close. You can get rid of the guns (actually you can't, but even if you could) and you'll still end up with the same number of deaths and violent crime.

For example, more people are killed in the US by bludgeoning (hammers, bats, bare hands, etc) than with rifles.
 
Tyrant of Ants said:
As a gun owner, I have a hard time buying that. Guns make it easier to kill, and Americans hate to be inconvenienced.
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Check out violent crime rates in the UK and USA from the early 90s to 2015 or so.

The UK drastically increased gun control while limiting the number of guns in their country. At the same time the US let the assault weapons ban expire and nearly doubled the number of guns in our country.

US violent crime and murder rates dropped far more than UK, and the trend lines down were nearly identical...

If the number of and access to guns was a large a factor that wouldn't have been possible.

I submit that cultural and economic differences play a much bigger role. In fact, I believe the gini coefficient is the most valuable indicator of these issues. Improving our gini coefficient to a level similar to Canada would drastically reduce violent crime and murder rates, including the vast majority of gun crime.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Check out violent crime rates in the UK and USA from the early 90s to 2015 or so.

The UK drastically increased gun control while limiting the number of guns in their country. At the same time the US let the assault weapons ban expire and nearly doubled the number of guns in our country.

US violent crime and murder rates dropped far more than UK, and the trend lines down were nearly identical...

If the number of and access to guns was a large a factor that wouldn't have been possible.
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Are the rates of mass murders the same? I buy that if you just want to kill someone in a rage, you'll use whatever tool you have access to. But it's much harder to kill a crowd of 20 people with a hammer or bare hands than with an assault weapon. I've never felt that guns create murder and crime--guns IMO operate as a force multiplier, allowing one nutcase to have a massively outsized effect.
 
Minstrel said:
Are the numbers of mass murders the same? I buy that if you just want to kill someone in a rage, you'll use whatever tool you have access to. But it's much harder to kill a crowd of 20 people with a hammer or bare hands than with an assault weapon. I've never felt that guns create murder and crime--guns IMO operate as a force multiplier, allowing one nutcase to have a massively outsized effect.
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Yeah, I don't disagree. It's tough to quantify... We're currently living in the safest time in human history. And there are more guns than at any time in human history.

Addressing the gini coefficient would also reduce the number of undiagnosed psychos walking around with the ability to buy guns.

I would also support a federal law prohibiting the transfer of any firearm to the possession of a gun restricted individual.

That would include any person who currently has a felony or violent criminal background and any person under 18 who has not completed at least a federally approved hunters safety course.

I would add a weapons restriction to every form of government issued ID. State or federal. And require every person transferring firearms via sale, loan, or any other means, to confirm their legal status.

Anybody caught giving a gun to these people would automatically be added to the restricted list and be charged with felony weapons trafficking.

Every state already has the ability to put restrictions on their state ID, so there is nothing to prevent it happening right now.

With this proposal gun enthusiasts would no longer have the argument that they don't support gun control for fear of a database of gun owners. It would just be a database of criminals, but would be verifiable without the need to use any electronics or forms. Just the flash of an ID.

But countries with strict gun control do still have mass murders...
 
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Tyrant of Ants said:
I was replying to the idea of getting rid of all guns, not gun control. I'd think it's rather logical to believe that if humans didn't have access to lethal weapons, we would have a harder time killing each other. Even the most badass dude would have a hard time fighting off two or more people with his bare hands. But give a machine gun to some scrawny pimpled face kid and he'd be able to mow a whole bunch of badasses down.
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To me, that's an incredibly compelling argument in favor of an armed society...

I want my wife to be able to defend herself from a 6'5" man. When she can walk to her car with her hand in her purse, on her .380 she's not walking like a victim.

Criminals are adept at finding people who act like victims and exploiting them.
 
Chris Craig said:
Might as well just dismiss the whole trial
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The only one I could see being a problem for Rittenhouse is the shooting of Rosenbaum. However, he had threatened to kill him, was in a violent, psychotic state of mind and was, in the mind of Rittenhouse, going for his gun while chasing him.

The others were likely a slam dunk for self-defense as he was actively being attacked.
 
Tyrant of Ants said:
Sucks for badasses like myself, then. :bgrin:

But seriously, living under a MAD (mutually assured destruction) society doesn't sound all that great.
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How about MR (mutual respect) society? Unfortunately there will always be criminals. But addressing the gini coefficient is the most efficient way I've seen to get that number as low as possible.
 
Phatguysrule said:
To me, that's an incredibly compelling argument in favor of an armed society...

I want my wife to be able to defend herself from a 6'5" man. When she can walk to her car with her hand in her purse, on her .380 she's not walking like a victim.

Criminals are adept at finding people who act like victims and exploiting them.
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So are gun manufacturers.

How is your wife going to defend herself from someone who is a better shot than her, or draws first, or has weapons in both hands, or is wearing body armor, or...?

barfo
 
Phatguysrule said:
I understand your frustration, but guns aren't the problem, especially not rifles. Not even close. You can get rid of the guns (actually you can't, but even if you could) and you'll still end up with the same number of deaths and violent crime.

For example, more people are killed in the US by bludgeoning (hammers, bats, bare hands, etc) than with rifles.
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Handguns are the leading killers by far. At least with a rifle you can see the perp coming and get prepared but handguns can spring out with virtually no warning.
Countries with strict gun control do still have mass murders but not nearly as many per capita as us. We are way over the top.
Give your wife bear spray or a whistle.
 
Lanny said:
Handguns are the leading killers by far. At least with a rifle you can see the perp coming and get prepared but handguns can spring out with virtually no warning.
Countries with strict gun control do still have mass murders but not nearly as many per capita as us. We are way over the top.
Give your wife bear spray or a whistle.
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Bear spray or a whistle are far less of a deterrent. And I'm not sure hiw much help they'd be in a mass murder situation. For example, gunman chasing people through a mall or restaurant.

You are correct about handguns. You are also correct about more mass murders here. But we've always had more mass murders here.

Russia has extreme gun control (guns are virtually illegal to own for the general population) yet they have 4x the violent crime and murder as the US.

Gini coefficient is the best thing to tackle. All the countries with better violent crime and murder rates, as well as lower mass killings have far better gini coefficient ratios than we do here in the US. Including some Nordic countries which have decently high gun ownership rates.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Bear spray or a whistle are far less of a deterrent. And I'm not sure hiw much help they'd be in a mass murder situation. For example, gunman chasing people through a mall or restaurant.

You are correct about handguns. You are also correct about more mass murders here. But we've always had more mass murders here.

Russia has extreme gun control (guns are virtually illegal to own for the general population) yet they have 4x the violent crime and murder as the US.

Gini coefficient is the best thing to tackle. All the countries with better violent crime and murder rates, as well as lower mass killings are have far better gini coefficient ratios than we do here in the US. Including some Nordic countries which have decently high gun ownership rates.
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How many mass murder situations would there be without all these guns? How many mass murder situations do we have with all these guns?
 
Lanny said:
How many mass murder situations would there be without all these guns? How many mass murder situations do we have with all these guns?
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In 2021 there have been 39 people killed in the USA in mass shootings. Last year it was 9.
A total of 996 victims were fatally injured during mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and May 26, 2021.

That's an average of around 26 deaths per year.

We average nearly 1200 bludgeoning deaths per year (hands, feet, bats, blunt objects). Significantly more deaths every year than the last 40 years of mass shootings combined...

I submit that mass shootings are incredibly low on the list of what I want our leaders spending time on. There are far more important things they should be focused on.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls
 
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barfo said:
So are gun manufacturers.

How is your wife going to defend herself from someone who is a better shot than her, or draws first, or has weapons in both hands, or is wearing body armor, or...?

barfo
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I'm not that worried about those people. The people who would be mugging my wife would have sold all of that stuff for drug money before this point.

And the biggest part from my perspective is that she feels safer, and feels capable of defending herself, so doesn't act like a victim.

Not being a victim is the first line of defense when trying to avoiding conflict. If you're good enough at avoiding conflict it doesn't matter how capable you are.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Bear spray or a whistle are far less of a deterrent. And I'm not sure hiw much help they'd be in a mass murder situation. For example, gunman chasing people through a mall or restaurant.
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So bear spray and whistles are not strong enough protection for your wife because of mass shootings situations...

Phatguysrule said:
In 2021 there have been 39 people killed in the USA in mass shootings. Last year it was 9.
A total of 996 victims were fatally injured during mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and May 26, 2021.

That's an average of around 26 deaths per year.

We average nearly 1200 bludgeoning deaths per year (hands, feet, bats, blunt objects). Significantly more deaths every year than the last 40 years of mass shootings combined...

I submit that mass shootings are incredibly low on the list of what I want our leaders spending time on. There are far more important things they should be focused on.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...the-united-states-by-fatalities-and-injuries/

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls
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......But also mass shootings are not really a big enough deal to really worry about?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, I don't disagree. It's tough to quantify... We're currently living in the safest time in human history. And there are more guns than at any time in human history.

Addressing the gini coefficient would also reduce the number of undiagnosed psychos walking around with the ability to buy guns.

I would also support a federal law prohibiting the transfer of any firearm to the possession of a gun restricted individual.

That would include any person who currently has a felony or violent criminal background and any person under 18 who has not completed at least a federally approved hunters safety course.

I would add a weapons restriction to every form of government issued ID. State or federal. And require every person transferring firearms via sale, loan, or any other means, to confirm their legal status.

Anybody caught giving a gun to these people would automatically be added to the restricted list and be charged with felony weapons trafficking.

Every state already has the ability to put restrictions on their state ID, so there is nothing to prevent it happening right now.

With this proposal gun enthusiasts would no longer have the argument that they don't support gun control for fear of a database of gun owners. It would just be a database of criminals, but would be verifiable without the need to use any electronics or forms. Just the flash of an ID.

But countries with strict gun control do still have mass murders...
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Good points but I would also mention that as long ad we allow drugs easily into our country and a breakdown of the family can contribute to problems with crime and illegal use of guns.
The whole drug issue is swept under the carpet in allowing cartels to poison our kids, and many families have been destroyed because of it.
Deal with illegal drugs and we help humanity.
 
Gun charge dropped lmaoo

he’s def getting off. The only good side is shit like this is what angers and energizes people to vote like in 2020
 
Phatguysrule said:
I understand your frustration, but guns aren't the problem, especially not rifles. Not even close. You can get rid of the guns (actually you can't, but even if you could) and you'll still end up with the same number of deaths and violent crime.

For example, more people are killed in the US by bludgeoning (hammers, bats, bare hands, etc) than with rifles.
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I stand by my original statement. America is fucking stupid with its gun obsession. I’ll take my chances with bare hands, bats and hammers. And my family’s.
 
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