OT LeBron James said Kyle Rittenhouse should 'knock it off' after the teen cried during murder trial

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Phatguysrule said:
There are other countries with far fewer guns yet far higher violent crime and murder rates.

We have more guns than anybody else in the world. Of course we're going to use them more...

But this is really a dishonest question. Why does it matter how a person dies?

Honestly, if I had to pick between being shot or bludgeoned to death I'd pick being shot every time.
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Right. But any countries we want to actually compare ourselves to? I get Columbia and Guatemala and Venezuela. How about countries that can function like grown ups? How are there gun stats?
 
In the United States, for Gun Death Homicides, when the race of the offender was known, 55.9 percent were Black or African American, 41.1 percent were White, and 3.0 percent were of other races.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/expanded-homicide

Keep in mind that only 14.2% of the US population is black. So 14.2% of the population are responsible for 55.9% of gun death homicides. A huge problem lies in the black community in this country in terms of gun deaths and violence, far more than anyone else.

EDIT: This is apparently any weapons, so it can include swords, knives, grenades. But yeah, we need to be looking at the Black Community first to solve gun deaths.
 
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EL PRESIDENTE said:
In the United States, for Gun Death Homicides, when the race of the offender was known, 55.9 percent were Black or African American, 41.1 percent were White, and 3.0 percent were of other races.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/expanded-homicide

Keep in mind that only 14.2% of the US population is black. So 14.2% of the population are responsible for 55.9% of gun death homicides. A huge problem lies in the black community in this country in terms of gun deaths and violence, far more than anyone else.
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Because it's not about guns, but poverty and desperation.
 
jonnyboy said:
No, it wasn’t. He didn’t know any of those people prior to that night. He didn’t fire a round until there was a gun pointed at him. Two of the people he shot were armed, just like him. You clearly have been paying zero attention to this case if you’re actually running with this.
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Illegally in possession of a firearm
Crossed state lines
Shot at and killed others

Why did he go there WITH A GUN in the first place?

That would be like driving from Newberg to Portland during the riots with a gun, and killing people. Why was he in the position to need self defense anyways?

He wasn’t out there when it all went down and was attacked so he used the gun he carried on him to defend himself. He traveled 21 miles to a hostile environment with a firearm.
 
PDXFonz said:
Illegally in possession of a firearm
Crossed state lines
Shot at and killed others

Why did he go there WITH A GUN in the first place?

That would be like driving from Newberg to Portland during the riots with a gun, and killing people. Why was he in the position to need self defense anyways?

He wasn’t out there when it all went down and was attacked so he used the gun he carried on him to defend himself. He traveled 21 miles to a hostile environment with a firearm.

Sorry dude, we don’t actually need guns anymore. Never really needed them, their only positive use for us was an easy and efficient way to kill what we eat.

I look forward to the reform laws in the next 25 years and drinking the tears of everyone who cries about their amendment rights.

Sorry Bubba, you still have the right to remain silent.
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The gun was always in Kenosha. It was ruled not to be an illegal possession.
 
calvin natt said:
Right. But any countries we want to actually compare ourselves to? I get Columbia and Guatemala and Venezuela. How about countries that can function like grown ups? How are there gun stats?
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Nobody compares to the US with regards to number of guns. You can't make a legitimate comparison that way.

But, you pick the country and show me how gun control changed their violent crime and murder rates.
 
PDXFonz said:
Illegally in possession of a firearm
Crossed state lines
Shot at and killed others

Why did he go there WITH A GUN in the first place?

That would be like driving from Newberg to Portland during the riots with a gun, and killing people. Why was he in the position to need self defense anyways?

He wasn’t out there when it all went down and was attacked so he used the gun he carried on him to defend himself. He traveled 21 miles to a hostile environment with a firearm.
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Wonder if a gun would have helped?

Cougar attack suspected in death of missing Oregon hiker found near Mount Hood
https://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/2018/09/woman_found_dead_near_mount_ho_1.html

Or here...
Black bear attacks Oregon man and his dog on private timberland near Creswell
https://amp.statesmanjournal.com/amp/3111833001
 
Phatguysrule said:
Wonder if a gun would have helped?

Cougar attack suspected in death of missing Oregon hiker found near Mount Hood
https://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/2018/09/woman_found_dead_near_mount_ho_1.html

Or here...
Black bear attacks Oregon man and his dog on private timberland near Creswell
https://amp.statesmanjournal.com/amp/3111833001
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Yes

I’m sure it would have been over much quicker if either of those animals were armed with a gun.

My money is on the cougar sniping you from the mountain top, and the bear charging you with a 12 gauge.
 
calvin natt said:
Right. But any countries we want to actually compare ourselves to? I get Columbia and Guatemala and Venezuela. How about countries that can function like grown ups? How are there gun stats?
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Another point is that while we are wealthy as a country, we're also closer to being a 3rd world country than any country we'd want to compare ourselves to.
 
Let's set aside the philisophical for a moment and talk practical.

If Rittenhouse and the defendants in the Arbery case are acquited, will it increase or decrease the level of gun violence? IMHO there is no question it will lead to more deaths.
 
Buffalo Custard said:
Let's set aside the philisophical for a moment and talk practical.

If Rittenhouse and the defendants in the Arbery case are acquited, will it increase or decrease the level of gun violence? IMHO there is no question it will lead to more deaths.
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Interesting. Do you think normal people will just start hunting down other people, like in The Purge?
 
Lanny said:
Normal Trumpites, if there is such a thing, yes.
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I'm betting it'll be no more than before.

The prosecution didn't help much. They came off as kind of crooked... Which is typical for Wisconsin, as I understand it.
 
PDXFonz said:
Illegally in possession of a firearm
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Nope.
PDXFonz said:
Crossed state lines
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Not with a gun he didn’t.
PDXFonz said:
Shot at and killed others
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Who also had guns and were assaulting him.
PDXFonz said:
Why was he in the position to need self defense anyways?
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Doesn’t matter. If he needed it he needed it. Being in a risky situation doesn’t negate your right to self defense.

So now that you’ve based your premise on 3 incorrect pieces of information, and also conceded that he was in need of self defense, are you still going to scream ‘premeditated murder’, a claim not even the prosecution will touch?
 
Phatguysrule said:
But, you pick the country and show me how gun control changed their violent crime and murder rates.
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Australia would be a good one for you to look into. Here's one article to get you started.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35048251

btw like most Americans, I support responsible gun ownership. To me that means registering your gun, being required to take/pass safety courses & banning assault type automatic weapons. Though it would never happen, if it were up to me I'd ban hand guns as they are obviously the type most often used in crimes, especially murders. My Sis and her family are all hunters and I'm looking forward to our Christmas Elk presents.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
Of course you do know why what you're asking about is so difficult to quantify right?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/federal-government-study-gun-violence/story?id=50300379

STOMP
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The Dicky ammendment is just more politics. It says the CDC can not use public funds to further a political agenda. There is nothing stopping them from fact finding or doing studies.

Democrats could get rid of it or re-write it if they want. Obama could have done it. Clinton could have done it.

The Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 United States federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment
 
Phatguysrule said:
Interesting. Do you think normal people will just start hunting down other people, like in The Purge?
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Imagine Jan 6th, with dozens of Kyle Rittenhouses emboldened to show up with loaded weapons. It would only take a few to turn an already bad situation into a mass casualty event.

"Normal" people? They (we?) were never the problem. Morons and crazies who will now believe they can kill and escape responsibility by saying the magic words "self-defense!" , that's another matter.
 
jonnyboy said:
Who also had guns and were assaulting him.
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Kyle's first victim Joseph Rosenbaum, did not have a gun. Kyle claimed he did to the police, but he didn't. Prior to throwing a plastic bag at KR, Rittenhouse had pointed his gun at him and others, which is assault. This has been testified to. Lecturing others about sharing incorrect info is rich.

STOMP
 
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Phatguysrule said:
The Dicky ammendment is just more politics. It says the CDC can not use public funds to further a political agenda. There is nothing stopping them from fact finding or doing studies.

Democrats could get rid of it or re-write it if they want. Obama could have done it. Clinton could have done it.
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I am not surprised that you're clueless on whats required to pass legislation.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
Australia would be a good one for you to look into. Here's one article to get you started.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-35048251

btw like most Americans, I support responsible gun ownership. To me that means registering your gun, being required to take/pass safety courses & banning assault type automatic weapons. Though it would never happen, if it were up to me I'd ban hand guns as they are obviously the type most often used in crimes, especially murders. My Sis and her family are all hunters and I'm looking forward to our Christmas Elk presents.

STOMP
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I understand that, but you will never get support for registration. There will never be a database of gun owners.

Even if there were a database of gun owners it would create a MASSIVE market for unregistered guns.

Our population is far too mechanically inclined and distrustful of government for that to ever happen.

But it's a great wedge issue if you just want to keep people riled up...
 
jonnyboy said:
Nope.

Not with a gun he didn’t.

Who also had guns and were assaulting him.

Doesn’t matter. If he needed it he needed it. Being in a risky situation doesn’t negate your right to self defense.

So now that you’ve based your premise on 3 incorrect pieces of information, and also conceded that he was in need of self defense, are you still going to scream ‘premeditated murder’, a claim not even the prosecution will touch?
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Yes, and the prosecution won’t touch it because the prosecution understands that the legal proceedings are “who can find and exploit legal ‘loopholes’ the best”

I think you’d do very well on the defense; and very poorly on it if it was someone you cared about who lost their life.

And I figure you wish you would have been there to kill the people vandalizing the car dealership during the portland riots?

If not, why do you think this kid should have been there to do what he did?
 
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