Leonard's Breakout Game?

[BlazerWookee]

My mom thinks he's hot.

(shudder)

 

[MickZagger]

My mom thinks he's hot.

(shudder)

Your mom's a cougar, eh?

 

[BBert]

I'm not a hater, and I agree that it was good to see him with some strong possessions (especially in the first half), but on the other hand we also had... this.

http://twitpic.com/dqd831

That was against the shot clock. Could it have been a better effort? Maybe. He could have gotten it to Damian with two seconds on the clock. He knew he was out of time but rushed it to beat the clock. He's a work in progress. No player on our team played a perfect game. Certainly not Lillard or Aldridge.

 

[Further]

For a player who came into the league as young and raw as Meyers Leonard, there is no such thing as a breakout game. He's a long term project and a work in progress. There will be good games, bad games, mediocre games and DNP-CDs. Expect inconsistency, but as long as the overall trend is positive, I'm fine with that.

But then, when it comes to Meyers Leonard, I've been a realist since day one. I knew when we drafted him, he was very young, very raw, very inexperienced and at least 3 to 4 years away from being a respectable NBA player. In other words, my expectations have always been realistic. The good news is I'm clearly seeing positive forward progress these last three games. First, he's playing meaningful minutes in close games against top notch competition - not just garbage time minutes against other scrubs in blowout victories.

Most folks on this board thought Joel Freeland was worthless last season, that he looked every bit as lost, uncomfortable and clueless as Leonard. In some ways, especially on offense, he looked even worse than Leonard. Given Freeland's more advanced age and several seasons of professional experience in Europe, I was more disappointed in Freeland last season than Leonard. After all, we'd been told that JoelFreeland was the best big man outside of the NBA. But, look at the remarkable improvement Freeland has made in just one off season of hard work. To most in this forum, Freeland went from lost cause to fan favorite in a matter of six months. I recognized the improvement in Freeland, his vastly improved interior defense and rebounding early in the preseason and picked him as my Cult Hero before the season started.

And guess what, I'm starting to see the same type improvement with Meyers Leonard. Oh sure, he still makes the occasional boneheaded play - a "rookie" mistake. I know he's not technically a rookie anymore, but he is still very inexperienced, very young, still adjusting to his body and learning the NBA game. But overall, I'm seeing a lot more good than bad from Leonard these days and that's a clear step in the right direction. I almost posted something about Leonard's progress after the Clippers game, but I get tired of the haters constantly shitting all over this kid, no matter what he does. But haters are always gonna hate. It's what they do and helps them feel good about themselves.

I first noticed in the NOP game that Meyers was much more active when rebounding, especially on the defensive end. He was much more focused and alert and rather than just standing around hoping the ball bounced his way he was actively pursuing rebounds and chasing down loose balls. Same thing, only even better against the Clippers and Heat. I also noticed some very Freelandesque defensive progress. He is getting much better position and like Freeland is going straight up with arms fully extended. That foul call on him against DeAndre Jordan was complete bullshit. If you watched the replay, Leonard played prefect defense on that play. He went straight up with arms fully extended, as he's allowed to do (and supposed to do) and Jordan swung his arm into Leonard. It should have been a non-call. Leonard altered the shot and prevented the easy field goal. He did what he was supposed to do - protect the rim. And, since Jordan missed both free throws, even though it was a bogus call, Leonard was successful and prevented an easy two points by playing proper defense.

I know the sample size is extremely small, but the stats (what we have) back up what I'm seeing with my eyes. Leonard is currently averaging 11.2 PTS/36 and 13.1 REB/36 (highest on the team). His PER = 14.8 and his TRB% is 19.8, again highest on the team and approaching elite level rebounding. His TS% of .611 is excellent. His ORTg (132 - highest on the team), DRTg (104 - tied for best on the team) and WS/48 (.187 - highest on the team) are all outstanding. Again, I recognize these numbers are all based on an extremely small sample size and will moderate over time as his PT increases, but it does show that he is being productive in the limited, but meaningful minutes he's playing.

Most importantly, I've seen significant progress in the two areas most critics say Leonard needs to improve the most- defense and rebounding. I've seen it with my eyes and the numbers back it up. He's a few months behind Joel Freeland, but he's learning the same things now that Freeland learned over the summer. At this point, rebounding and good position defense are second nature for Freeland. You can count on him to give you steady, solid, if unspectacular play, night in and night out. Leonard still looks like he needs to think about what he's supposed to do, but the good news is he's thinking about and doing the right things more and more. Eventually, it will become second nature to him like it has to Freeland.

Sure, he'll still make some dumb plays and have bad games, but if this type of overall progress continues, Leonard will become a solid rotation player and because he's younger, taller, more athletic and has better offensive skills, he will eventually become an even better version of the player Joel Freeland has become. Given how little Leonard has actually played this season, his progress these last three games is ahead of where I would expect it to be. He's obviously working hard in practice. His coach has noticed and is rewarding him with increased playing time. Good for him. I hope his increased role will inspire him to continue to work hard and get better.

BNM

Repped. Great post and I agree with all of it.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The only way one could define any of his recent play as breakout games is if you expectations for him is non-NBA player. So, really any happiness about his current play is really an insult.

Did he have a 20 pont game? No.
Did he get 12 rebounds? No.
Did he get a double double? No.
Did he play OK? Yes.

He got 6 points, 5 rebounds. The coach trusted him enough to play ELEVEN minutes.
I'm as big a homer as most, but not that big.

Low bar, people. Low, low bar.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I still don't believe he is giving us what Robinson did

 

[MickZagger]

I still don't believe he is giving us what Robinson did

Because you made up your mind a long time ago that you didn't like Leonard.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Because you made up your mind a long time ago that you didn't like Leonard.

Not at all.

I think it's because I believe this team needs defense badly, and Leonar_ sucks ass at it.

 

[Natebishop3]

I still don't believe he is giving us what Robinson did

I tend to agree, but I'm also wondering if we're trying to showcase him.

 

[Blazinaway]

I tend to agree, but I'm also wondering if we're trying to showcase him.

this is very possible

 

[TripTango]

That was against the shot clock. Could it have been a better effort? Maybe. He could have gotten it to Damian with two seconds on the clock. He knew he was out of time but rushed it to beat the clock. He's a work in progress. No player on our team played a perfect game. Certainly not Lillard or Aldridge.

Note that I'm not calling for his head or bashing the guy like some tend to do around here. I agree with most of BNM's post and believe that Meyers will end up bringing us some good value, whether on the court or in a trade. It's just, ya know... the whole turnaround, contested, one-footed three thing is soooo playground garbageball style.

 

[BBert]

Note that I'm not calling for his head or bashing the guy like some tend to do around here. I agree with most of BNM's post and believe that Meyers will end up bringing us some good value, whether on the court or in a trade. It's just, ya know... the whole turnaround, contested, one-footed three thing is soooo playground garbageball style.

Yeah, it was kinda weak.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I tend to agree, but I'm also wondering if we're trying to showcase him.

It's the only logical explanation

 

[Natebishop3]

It's the only logical explanation

Since Robinson has stopped playing we have lost a lot of our offensive rebounding.

 

[HailBlazers]

It's the only logical explanation

Based on your logic, Yes.

Of course he's not giving us the same as Robinson, they offer different things. Both direly need experience and there's only one way to get it, to Play. Love T-Rob's hustle game but there is something very special that an Athletic, Healthy, Seven Footer can bring to a Contender.

 

[riverman]

Stotts is a player's coach and when he sees something he likes, he goes with it. People forget Meyers is 21 years old. My son is a 22 year old senior at Oregon State and when I look at Meyer it puts him in perspective. Robinson is an athletic freak but slow as molasses on the playbook. I want a competitive bench and it looks like we have one!

 

[Shooter]

He got 6 points, 5 rebounds. The coach trusted him enough to play ELEVEN minutes.

6 points and 5 rebounds in eleven minutes is pretty good. I'll take that any day.

But it wasn't just Leonard's statistics that impressed. He seemed composed and in control, and he made two very fluid shots that came in the flow of the game. In short, he looked as if he belonged on the court, which is a big improvement over his recent performances.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The only way one could define any of his recent play as breakout games is if you expectations for him is non-NBA player. So, really any happiness about his current play is really an insult.

Did he have a 20 pont game? No.
Did he get 12 rebounds? No.
Did he get a double double? No.
Did he play OK? Yes.

He got 6 points, 5 rebounds. The coach trusted him enough to play ELEVEN minutes.
I'm as big a homer as most, but not that big.

Low bar, people. Low, low bar.

Well then, I guess Thomas Robinson should really feel insulted. He was the 5th pick in the same draft and he got 0 points and 0 rebounds and his coach trusted him enough to play him ZERO minutes.

11 productive minutes from Leonard is a big step in the right direction. Nobody in this thread is saying he doesn't need further improvement, but at least he is making noticeable progress. 11 minutes seems about right for him at this point. If you expect him to start taking minutes from Aldridge or Lopez anytime soon, you will continue to be disappointed.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I still don't believe he is giving us what Robinson did

What, specifically, was Robinson giving us that Leonard is not?

Again the sample sizes are small, but they are all we have:

Thomas Robinson:
PTS/36 = 16.7
REB/36 = 11.5
FG% = .448
FT% = .636
PER = 14.6
ORB% = 12.1
DRB% = 22.6
TRB% = 17.4
USG% = 23.3
ORtg = 103
DRtg = 105
WS/48 = .087

Meyers Leonard:
PTS/36 = 11.2
REB/36 = 13.1
FG% = .529
FT% = 1.000
PER = 14.8
ORB% = 11.4
DRB% = 28.0
TRB% = 19.8
USG% = 12.2
ORtg = 132
DRtg = 104
WS/48 = .187

Most of the stats are close, but ironically Robinson scores more PTS/36, but Leonard grabs more REB/36. Of course, Robinson's USG% is nearly twice as high as Leonard's. Leonard scores less, but does so much more efficiently.

So, I'll ask again what does/did Robinson give us that Leonard isn't?

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not at all.

I think it's because I believe this team needs defense badly, and Leonar_ sucks ass at it.

Have you actually watched the last 3 games? Either you haven't, or you're so blinded by your hatred of Leonard you have failed to notice his significantly improved defense (and rebounding). Aren't those the two areas you're always giving Leonard shit about - defense and rebounding? Well, he must have been listening, because he's shown significant progress in both areas. He's played much better defense, against some very good opponents, and is now the team leader in both REB/36 (13.1) and TRB% (19.8).

He's pulled down 16 rebounds in the last 3 games in 34:04 minutes. That's a REB/36 of 16.9. And, he's been doing it while on the court with guys like Anthony Davis, DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin. Yes, the sample size is small, but he's been doing it in close games against top notch competition. He's not padding his stats against 3rd stringers in garbage time. The sample size is small, but the results are very real.

Will this positive trend continue? Who knows, but it's nice to see some progress from Leonard.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's the only logical explanation

Well, that or his coach thinks he's actually earned the increased minutes. Perhaps Coach Stotts actually knows more about basketball than you do. Or, is that too illogical for your negative world view?

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well, that or his coach thinks he's actually earned the increased minutes. Perhaps Coach Stotts actually knows more about basketball than you do. Or, is that too illogical for your negative world view?

BNM

He certainly knows more about his team.

All I know is what I see on the floor, and Robinson has played better than Leonar_ in games

 

[Wizard Mentor]

6 points and 5 rebounds in eleven minutes is pretty good. I'll take that any day.

But it wasn't just Leonard's statistics that impressed. He seemed composed and in control, and he made two very fluid shots that came in the flow of the game. In short, he looked as if he belonged on the court, which is a big improvement over his recent performances.

I absolutely agree with all parts of this. But what you're describing is a long way from a "breakout game."

 

[BBert]

Leonard looked more comfortable and less gawky/awkward/confused on the floor. More fluid, if you will. He grabbed every rebound in sight and played OK defense (frankly, I thought both his defense and rebounding were better than Aldridge's v. the Heat). Breakout game? Nah. Vast improvement and validation that the team should continue to develop him? Yes, IMO.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

1) Yes, Robinson should absolutely feel like he's got a lot of work to do.

2) Again I absolutely agree with you about Leonard. But, like Shooter you are in NO WAY describing a "breakout game".

Leonard sucks. He's sucked less in the last few games. I am very happy about this as I tend to be an optimistic homer. Maybe he will actually turn into a real NBA player (for us or get us some value in trade). But seriously you can't have a breakout game in 11 minutes.

What do I want? Just what the rest of you want. I want a young center who fits our defensive needs who is good enough to be a viable rotation player (viable = a small negative or even a small positive +/-) who is also good enough to become our CotF.

Leonard still hasn't shown that he is that player. I am hopeful that by the end of the year he will show that he is that type of player. If not we will need to either trade him or obtain someone to play in front of him.

Well then, I guess Thomas Robinson should really feel insulted. He was the 5th pick in the same draft and he got 0 points and 0 rebounds and his coach trusted him enough to play him ZERO minutes.

11 productive minutes from Leonard is a big step in the right direction. Nobody in this thread is saying he doesn't need further improvement, but at least he is making noticeable progress. 11 minutes seems about right for him at this point. If you expect him to start taking minutes from Aldridge or Lopez anytime soon, you will continue to be disappointed.

BNM

 

[Wizard Mentor]

well put.

Leonard looked more comfortable and less gawky/awkward/confused on the floor. More fluid, if you will. He grabbed every rebound in sight and played OK defense (frankly, I thought both his defense and rebounding were better than Aldridge's v. the Heat). Breakout game? Nah. Vast improvement and validation that the team should continue to develop him? Yes, IMO.

 

[BBert]

I keep thinking about that wide open three he passed up v. the Heat. Unlike just about everyone else on earth, I kind of wish he'd shot it. But once he second guessed himself, it was game over, and not shooting it was the right choice. Once a shooter has second thoughts, it's too late.

 

[Draco]

What do I want? Just what the rest of you want. I want a young center who fits our defensive needs who is good enough to be a viable rotation player (viable = a small negative or even a small positive +/-) who is also good enough to become our CotF.

That's not fair expectations for Leonard. Hey I've been a Leonard hater here plenty of the time, but his skill set is as a floor spacing big. He never had the skills or acumen to be a defensive presence anchoring a team. Fans who want him to fit into a defensive interior mold will never accept him. Plenty of big men have great NBA careers in a variety of roles. I want to see Leonard do what he is best at. This team could really use an extra big man who doesn't suck! If Leonard can contribute more than other backup big men in the league, most of which suck, I will be happy with that.

 

[magnifier661]

That's not fair expectations for Leonard. Hey I've been a Leonard hater here plenty of the time, but his skill set is as a floor spacing big. He never had the skills or acumen to be a defensive presence anchoring a team. Fans who want him to fit into a defensive interior mold will never accept him. Plenty of big men have great NBA careers in a variety of roles. I want to see Leonard do what he is best at. This team could really use an extra big man who doesn't suck! If Leonard can contribute more than other backup big men in the league, most of which suck, I will be happy with that.

If we had a player like Asik with Leonard off the bench, I'd be totally fine with it. Unfortunately I doubt freeland is used in a deal now. Asik works well with Lopez, not so much with Aldridge or Freeland.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm not a Leonar_ fan at all and I'm probably biased, but if that Miami game was his "breakout" then the word has pretty much lost all meaning.