Lillard for MVP 2021

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Natebishop3 said:
And Terry has done nothing to try to alleviate this.
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What is he supposed to do? We don't have the personnel for it unless we start actually working Dame off ball more. Even that comes with the same issues, and doesn't really play to Dame's strengths.
 
Kano John said:
My question is how can he be in the conversation as MVP and not be a starter in the All Star game?
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It's unrelated for some reason.

Did a basic weighted scoring thing for the different weights of fan vote (0.5)/player vote (0.25)/media vote (0.25).

Steph will get the fan and media vote for sure. Players... probably, but not definitive. If he gets 1st in all three, then obviously he's in as starter.

But my question is, what happens if it goes like this in this scenario:
Luka gets 2nd in fan vote, but third in both players and media vote? That would give both him AND Dame a weighted score of 2.5.

Steph -- 1st fan, 1st players, 1st media -- 1
Luka -- 2nd fan, 3rd players, 3rd media -- 2.5
Dame -- 3rd fan, 2nd players, 2nd media -- 2.5

Wonder what the tiebreaker is on this.
 
illmatic99 said:
Get ready for the debacle on TNT tonight with Luka getting the nod to start in the All Star game ahead of Dame.

Fan vote might be excusable. But he's gonna get the media vote as well. Just watch.
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Media doesn’t like Luka more than Dame, no way!
 
julius said:
weird that the title of the video says ESPN, but it's completely a FS1 show being shown.
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Yeah... I kept watching waiting for it to be ESPN/Windhorst.

The thumbnail was even Windhorst.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Yes, at the VERY beginning, Mo Williams was the 2nd best player on his team. The special case was 15+ years ago.
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Please don't be ridiculous. I love Dame but comparing him to LeBron makes him look bad.

When LeBron was with that shit Cavs team the first seven years of his career, once he got to his third season he took them to the second round five years in a row, he took them to the Eastern Conference Finals twice and the Finals once... and that team most definitely was shit. Dame has never had to play on a team that shitty.

Since then he has played with some of the best players in the game and has won four titles. Jordan had Pippen and expertly built teams around them. Magic and Bird fell into teams with three and four HOFers as teammates.

LeBron did more with a shit team than any of the guys on the list... I'm not saying he's the GOAT but it is either him or MJ. Dame is not in the discussion as much as I love the guy.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
My stat for the media talking heads:
Lillard has NEVER played with a top 20 player.
LBJ has never NOT played with a top 20 player.

Yes, Lillard is exhausted come playoff time. He's always had to do what Lebron has always feared of doing.
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You’re outta your mind. He dragged a team to the NBA finals with a shitshow of a roster.
 
Seems like the majority of the time, the MVP is on a team that is a #1 seed in their conference.
 
illmatic99 said:
It's unrelated for some reason.

Did a basic weighted scoring thing for the different weights of fan vote (0.5)/player vote (0.25)/media vote (0.25).

Steph will get the fan and media vote for sure. Players... probably, but not definitive. If he gets 1st in all three, then obviously he's in as starter.

But my question is, what happens if it goes like this in this scenario:
Luka gets 2nd in fan vote, but third in both players and media vote? That would give both him AND Dame a weighted score of 2.5.

Steph -- 1st fan, 1st players, 1st media -- 1
Luka -- 2nd fan, 3rd players, 3rd media -- 2.5
Dame -- 3rd fan, 2nd players, 2nd media -- 2.5

Wonder what the tiebreaker is on this.
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I know this isn't an argument about merit but fuck Steph. His team is doing worse than Dame's and Dame is neck and neck with Steph in stats. Luka is the most potent offensive weapon in the league and his team isn't doing much worse than the Warriors. None of the guys are good on defense. The players and media should look at PER which puts Dame first, Luka second and Steph third.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And Terry has done nothing to try to alleviate this.
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I think this is the big quote in the story:

"Eventually, it (Portland) will run into an elite defense with a mobile center who blitzes Lillard on pick-and-rolls and exposes the fact that his teammates can’t make enough plays to make them pay for it."

This is a roster creation flaw as some of us have been pointing out for a while. It's not that the players aren't talented, but many of them do not have a skill set that compliment Dame. Having an AD or Green would do wonders for Dame's ability to advance in the playoffs.
 
Embiid, Curry, Jokic, Dame and James (in no particular order) all belong in the MVP discussion, IMO. I think Doncic is a phenomenal talent and maybe he should be on the fringes of the discussion, but he's having a slightly lesser season than last year.
 
Tince said:
I think this is the big quote in the story:

"Eventually, it (Portland) will run into an elite defense with a mobile center who blitzes Lillard on pick-and-rolls and exposes the fact that his teammates can’t make enough plays to make them pay for it."

This is a roster creation flaw as some of us have been pointing out for a while. It's not that the players aren't talented, but many of them do not have a skill set that compliment Dame. Having an AD or Green would do wonders for Dame's ability to advance in the playoffs.
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So here's a question, if the pick'n'roll is what's leading to Dame getting trapped, why run it?

We used to see the same damn thing with Brandon Roy. We are creating a scenario where the other team can double our best player in a disadvantageous position on the floor. Why create that situation if you know it's coming?
 
Tince said:
I think this is the big quote in the story:

"Eventually, it (Portland) will run into an elite defense with a mobile center who blitzes Lillard on pick-and-rolls and exposes the fact that his teammates can’t make enough plays to make them pay for it."

This is a roster creation flaw as some of us have been pointing out for a while. It's not that the players aren't talented, but many of them do not have a skill set that compliment Dame. Having an AD or Green would do wonders for Dame's ability to advance in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
How hard is it to understand that CJ is a terrible fit next to Dame in the backcourt which means he's an even worse fit as our second option, taking up all of that cap space and those minutes. Olshey is to blame for Dame's mediocre playoff success.

Please spare me the "CJ is great in the playoffs" bullshit. If we all critically think about it, why would CJ's numbers be good in the playoffs? It's because all of our opponents entire strategy is to take Dame out of the game and make CJ beat them... and that strategy has almost always worked with the exception of one post season in which we ran into teams experiencing a rash of injuries.

Dame is too good and has too much talent around him for that talent not to fit both his strengths and weaknesses. It's bullshit and it's Neil's fault. And while the CJ apologists in here are in no way to blame for our lack of success, your position still pisses me off.
 
illmatic99 said:
luka got first from all three categories last year. Harden got second, Dame, third.

https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/wp-co...r-Western-Conference-Guard-Voting-Results.pdf

Out of 100 voters from the media, Dame got 1 vote for a top 2 spot, Luka got 100 votes for #1.
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Doncic had the narrative of being an amazing player at such a young age. I think the media overreacts to narrative angles. For as good as Doncic was last year, Lillard was even better (and is better this year, too, by a wider margin).
 
Natebishop3 said:
So here's a question, if the pick'n'roll is what's leading to Dame getting trapped, why run it?
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Because that's the style Lillard is best at and, relatedly, the style Lillard wants to play. That's not on Stotts--any competent coach is going to build his offense around what his star does best and will actually sell out to do. He can bark at Lillard to play more like Curry and run all day off the ball, but if Lillard doesn't sell out in that role, it's going to be far worse for the team.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Maybe I should have said in over a decade, when he entered free agency.
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That makes more sense. But for your sake and street cred, Dame shouldn’t really be in the same conversation with LeBron. You can respect both their games without choosing one or the other.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Maybe I should have said in over a decade, when he entered free agency.
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That nullifies what he did for the first seven years of his career. He has played with great players since then and gone to more finals than anyone else that didn't play in the 1960's.

I mean are we really debating Dame v LeBron... that's not a real thing is it?
 
THE HCP said:
He said LeBron has always had a Top 20 player by his side. And you reply with geography?
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Yes. Carrying a team in the playoffs was significantly easier in the eastern conference, especially in the 2000s. That conference was a joke, and still is outside of a few teams.
 
As the MVD of this forum Lillard should be the MVP of the NBA.
 
illmatic99 said:
It's unrelated for some reason.

Did a basic weighted scoring thing for the different weights of fan vote (0.5)/player vote (0.25)/media vote (0.25).

Steph will get the fan and media vote for sure. Players... probably, but not definitive. If he gets 1st in all three, then obviously he's in as starter.

But my question is, what happens if it goes like this in this scenario:
Luka gets 2nd in fan vote, but third in both players and media vote? That would give both him AND Dame a weighted score of 2.5.

Steph -- 1st fan, 1st players, 1st media -- 1
Luka -- 2nd fan, 3rd players, 3rd media -- 2.5
Dame -- 3rd fan, 2nd players, 2nd media -- 2.5

Wonder what the tiebreaker is on this.
Click to expand...

Looked it up. This happened before in the first year they started weighting this vote:

A: That's right. If there's a tie, the fan vote is the tiebreaker. Harden also ended up with a 2.0 average -- the lower the number, the better -- and finished second among fans, media and players. Curry and Harden won the tiebreaker. It was close but Westbrook lost out.

So Dame has to get first in either media and/or player vote or he's not getting in. Unless there's a late push from fans this past week, it looks more and more like Steph and Luka will be starters.
 
illmatic99 said:
Looked it up. This happened before in the first year they started weighting this vote:

A: That's right. If there's a tie, the fan vote is the tiebreaker. Harden also ended up with a 2.0 average -- the lower the number, the better -- and finished second among fans, media and players. Curry and Harden won the tiebreaker. It was close but Westbrook lost out.

So Dame has to get first in either media and/or player vote or he's not getting in. Unless there's a late push from fans this past week, it looks more and more like Steph and Luka will be starters.
Click to expand...

So he's not getting it. Gotcha.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Yes. Carrying a team in the playoffs was significantly easier in the eastern conference, especially in the 2000s. That conference was a joke, and still is outside of a few teams.
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Dame vs LeBron is not happening. EVER. Move along.
 
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