Lillard overrated?

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

I don't think this will happen. Because I think his body and height will yield to greater improvement overall. But...

Anyone remember Damon and his rookie season?

Lillard is 6'3 190... It's not like he is a small PG. He also has a 40 inch vert and he has displayed how athletic he can be when he wants to be. Kind of like Roy was in that sense.

Damon was 5'10 170... BIG body differences. He had a great rookie season but he was truly a "little" guy.

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't see why people are so afraid to admit Lillard can and imo will enter that elite level PG list. Is it because he isn't flashy like Irving, Paul, Westbrook, and Rose? He has so far straight up balled against some elite level players. He put up 38 on Kobe, 29 and 35 on Parker, 37 on Curry, 33 on the Heat, and I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of good games against good players.

He was only a rookie and broke a ton of records and joined a lot of elite level players in rookie stats. It's not that far fetched an idea that he will just explode and turn into the next big thing.

Love this post^^

Age means nothing. Players use to stay three or four years of college and they still got better through their career, why can't Lillard just as easily make that jump? Experience in the NBA is what makes players better, Lillard has 82 games under his belt, he is only going to get better.

Love this post^^

Remember how ordinary he turned out?

I think his size and physical consititution played a bigger role in how ordinary he was. Lillard, I don't believe suffers that same problem

Yes. I wear Lillard T shirt and jersey a lot and I hear what people say around me. A few times, I've overheard "Lillard? Oh, like, remember Damon Stoudamire.." I've heard that a couple times. As if to say "is this guy for real? No."

 

[Masbee]

Yes, Damon's rookie season was unbelievable. Better than Lillard's.

What?

No.

It was not better than Lillards.

Not by any stat metric that matters.

And - Damon won Rookie of the Year, but he shouldn't have. He had competition. Joe Smith had a better rookie campaign.

Lillard, ran away with the award.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

if he shot .469 instead of .429 he would have had a PER in the 20s (random mathematical speculation)

he needs to get that shooting % up this year, and he really WILL be elite

 

[magnifier661]

What?

No.

It was not better than Lillards.

Not by any stat metric that matters.

And - Damon won Rookie of the Year, but he shouldn't have. He had competition. Joe Smith had a better rookie campaign.

Lillard, ran away with the award.

19 points, 4 rebounds and 9.3 assists? That's not better than Lillard?

 

[magnifier661]

if he shot .469 instead of .429 he would have had a PER in the 20s (random mathematical speculation)

he needs to get that shooting % up this year, and he really WILL be elite

Heavy minutes makes that stroke short. Bringing in Williams will be a Godsend. Now we have another distributor that can score. We are gonna have one exciting season!

 

[KingSpeed]

19 points, 4 rebounds and 9.3 assists? That's not better than Lillard?

This. Damon ran away with the award. Had better stats than Lillard and Joe Smith. He also hit a bunch of game winning shots, had some triple doubles. Beat on a very good Chicago team.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Age means nothing. Players use to stay three or four years of college and they still got better through their career, why can't Lillard just as easily make that jump? Experience in the NBA is what makes players better, Lillard has 82 games under his belt, he is only going to get better.

I didn't say anything about age. I simply said having four years of collegiate level play gets you more ready for NBA level play, and a player with more years of college is more likely to be at their peak than they are to make a huge jump. I'm not saying he won't get better, I'm saying his PER isn't going to go from 16 to 24. It's far more likely that he tops out at 19 which would put him in the second tier conversation with John Wall and Kemba Walker, than he makes a jump to the Paul, Westbrook, Parker, and Irving level.

 

[KingSpeed]

I didn't say anything about age. I simply said having four years of collegiate level play gets you more ready for NBA level play, and a player with more years of college is more likely to be at their peak than they are to make a huge jump. I'm not saying he won't get better, I'm saying his PER isn't going to go from 16 to 24. It's far more likely that he tops out at 19 which would put him in the second tier conversation with John Wall and Kemba Walker, than he makes a jump to the Paul, Westbrook, Parker, and Irving level.

You're not making any sense. A player with only college experience is already at his peak? Say what?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

As for Rose, I didn't want him to play last year. Don't want him to turn out like Oden.

Not playing for an entire year is actually quite Odenesque.

 

[Nate4Prez]

You're not making any sense. A player with only college experience is already at his peak? Say what?

More likely to be at there peak. Learn to read, then post.

 

[magnifier661]

I didn't say anything about age. I simply said having four years of collegiate level play gets you more ready for NBA level play, and a player with more years of college is more likely to be at their peak than they are to make a huge jump. I'm not saying he won't get better, I'm saying his PER isn't going to go from 16 to 24. It's far more likely that he tops out at 19 which would put him in the second tier conversation with John Wall and Kemba Walker, than he makes a jump to the Paul, Westbrook, Parker, and Irving level.

I respectfully disagree. John Stockton had 4 years of college and was considerably better after his rookie season. Clyde drexler was extremely better. I can name hundreds of players that came out after 4 years that improved drastically after their rookie season.

I do agree that staying 4 years gets you more ready for the nba level; but it isn't even close of an indicator that you cannot make a jump from 16 to 24 per.

 

[Nate4Prez]

I respectfully disagree. John Stockton had 4 years of college and was considerably better after his rookie season. Clyde drexler was extremely better. I can name hundreds of players that came out after 4 years that improved drastically after their rookie season.

I do agree that staying 4 years gets you more ready for the nba level; but it isn't even close of an indicator that you cannot make a jump from 16 to 24 per.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not playing for an entire year is actually quite Odenesque.

Getting hurt a 2nd time and never coming back is odenesque.

 

[KingSpeed]

What?

No.

It was not better than Lillards.

Not by any stat metric that matters.

And - Damon won Rookie of the Year, but he shouldn't have. He had competition. Joe Smith had a better rookie campaign.

Lillard, ran away with the award.

Damon had more points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, triple doubles, and a better PER. What stats do you use?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Getting hurt a 2nd time and never coming back is odenesque.

Best to let him sit out another year just in case.

 

[magnifier661]

I hope I'm wrong.

In this case, I know you're wrong. Come on man. Remember Roy and how much better he became after his rookie season? He had 4 years too and if he didn't have shitty knees; he's be top 5 in the league at 2 guard.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

In this case, I know you're wrong. Come on man. Remember Roy and how much better he became after his rookie season? He had 4 years too and if he didn't have shitty knees; he's be top 5 in the league at 2 guard.

If D-Wade is considered the best WARP SG right now, Roy would have him beat by a mile with good knees; same talent but way more efficient.

 

[magnifier661]

Damon had more points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, triple doubles, and a better PER. What stats do you use?

People forget just how good Damon was. In fact, he was one of the reasons why we played the lakers so tough. He was a knuckle head, but the kid had talent.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I waited in a long line around the block in Times Square to get Dame's autograph. People on the East Coast know who he is.

Yes, all of the autograph resellers know who he is.

 

[KingSpeed]

More likely to be at there peak. Learn to read, then post.

EXACTLY. Read what you just said. You said a player with only college experience is more likely to be at his peak. Read that again. That means that you think that in MOST CASES, players with lots of college experience reach their peak before they hit the pros! That doesn't make sense!

 

[magnifier661]

If D-Wade is considered the best WARP SG right now, Roy would have him beat by a mile with good knees; same talent but way more efficient.

Yep.

I think the true indicator is actually looking at what's above those shoulders. Lillard has the eye of the tiger. You know he is a competitor and won't be complacent. He wants to be the best and doesn't mind working hard to get there.

That's why he will be a top tier pg. it doesn't matter how old he is or how many years of college. It's how much drive he has to be the best.

 

[Denny Crane]

Best to let him sit out another year just in case.

Best not to rush him back, which is exactly what they're doing.

 

[Denny Crane]

EXACTLY. Read what you just said. You said a player with only college experience is more likely to be at his peak. Read that again. That means that you think that in MOST CASES, players with lots of college experience reach their peak before they hit the pros! That doesn't make sense!

Actually it does.

When they allowed players to go from HS to the pros, they consistently became better players in 4 years than their 4-year college counterparts. Maybe it had to do with spending 100% of their time focused on basketball with professional coaches, top of the line facilities, and competing against the best competition in the world.

 

[KingSpeed]

Yep.

I think the true indicator is actually looking at what's above those shoulders. Lillard has the eye of the tiger. You know he is a competitor and won't be complacent. He wants to be the best and doesn't mind working hard to get there.

That's why he will be a top tier pg. it doesn't matter how old he is or how many years of college. It's how much drive he has to be the best.

Exactly. Lillard has come out and said he wants to be MVP of the league.

 

[Nate4Prez]

EXACTLY. Read what you just said. You said a player with only college experience is more likely to be at his peak. Read that again. That means that you think that in MOST CASES, players with lots of college experience reach their peak before they hit the pros! That doesn't make sense!

No, I didn't. I said a player with four years of college experience is more likely to be at their peak in comparison a player with one year of college experience.

 

[KingSpeed]

Actually it does.

When they allowed players to go from HS to the pros, they consistently became better players in 4 years than their 4-year college counterparts. Maybe it had to do with spending 100% of their time focused on basketball with professional coaches, top of the line facilities, and competing against the best competition in the world.

Huh? You're completely confused. Nate4Prez is saying players reach their peak in college if they play too much college. That has nothing to do with what your saying. Sure, Kobe gets better in year 4 of NBA than he would've in college BUT that doesn't mean Tim Duncan reached his peak in college because he played four years there. The idea that any basketball player reaches his peak BEFORE playing in the pros is preposterous.

 

[KingSpeed]

No, I didn't. I said a player with four years of college experience is more likely to be at their peak in comparison a player with one year of college experience.

There you go again. In your world, a four years of college player can reach his peak before gong to the pros.

 

[Denny Crane]

Huh? You're completely confused. Nate4Prez is saying players reach their peak in college if they play too much college. That has nothing to do with what your saying. Sure, Kobe gets better in year 4 of NBA than he would've in college BUT that doesn't mean Tim Duncan reached his peak in college because he played four years there. The idea that any basketball player reaches his peak BEFORE playing in the pros is preposterous.

I think he makes a perfectly valid point. A guy like Taj Gibson played 4 years of college. He was quite NBA ready. I don't think he's improved very much, though he's still a quality contributor who might start for a few teams.

Duncan? He graduated college at 20, and was pretty much great the whole of his career. His PER shot up when Duncan turned 36 and was putting up 12/8 kind of numbers. He simply became their #1 guy.

EDIT: for comparison, I picked a random player, Steve Smith, who played 4 years at Michigan State. He graduated at age 22.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Huh? You're completely confused. Nate4Prez is saying players reach their peak in college if they play too much college. That has nothing to do with what your saying. Sure, Kobe gets better in year 4 of NBA than he would've in college BUT that doesn't mean Tim Duncan reached his peak in college because he played four years there. The idea that any basketball player reaches his peak BEFORE playing in the pros is preposterous.

I never said any such thing.

But Denny does appear to be saying that players that came out of high school were better after years in the NBA than players that spent 4 years in college. It's more likely that players who came out of high school to the NBA weren't in the NBA after 4 years.