Lillard's and Aldridge's relationship. (He will come back Portland one day)

[TorturedBlazerFan]

In the case of Meyers I think they imagined what he could become. In the case of ET I don't know what they were thinking. Neither passes the advanced metrics so I have to assume someone used their judgment. ET has one of the worst RPM's in the NBA and has had for 5 years straight. Aminu is not and elite defender but he's a very good defender as his advance stats show in DRPM and BDPM. Keeping a guard in front of you is only one element of defense among many.

ML’s shooting stats have always been really freaking good. I think they thought he could become good emough at other things to make it worth it.
In terms of Aminu he’s a good defender in the right match up, but his overall team defense isnt very good and he gets burned quite a bit, to be fair with the rules these days every one gets burned quite a bit.

 

[hoopsjock]

ML’s shooting stats have always been really freaking good. I think they thought he could become good emough at other things to make it worth it.
In terms of Aminu he’s a good defender in the right match up, but his overall team defense isnt very good and he gets burned quite a bit, to be fair with the rules these days every one gets burned quite a bit.

It seemed like last night that Stotts didn't want to put Aminu back in. After Jake messed up and fouled Bertrans on a 3 he reluctantly put him back in. Aminu's very first play he fell asleep off the ball and his man got a wide open 3 in the corner. I was so pissed.

 

[Lanny]

In the case of Meyers I think they imagined what he could become. In the case of ET I don't know what they were thinking. Neither passes the advanced metrics so I have to assume someone used their judgment. ET has one of the worst RPM's in the NBA and has had for 5 years straight. Aminu is not and elite defender but he's a very good defender as his advance stats show in DRPM and BDPM. Keeping a guard in front of you is only one element of defense among many.

Turner is valuable when matched up with someone shorter whom he can post up against.
I have no explanation for Leonard except he's light years better than he used to be. Yeah, threadbare but at least it's something. I imagine he'll go when his contract is up.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He claimed it was because his daughter lived in Texas with his ex wife and he wanted ot be near her. He took less money to make the move so I can only deduce that being near his daughter must have been the main reason.

He also wanted to be closer to his mother. He needed someone to take him tampon shopping.

 

[dviss1]

No reason to cuss and yell at me or any other poster. Not cool.

I'll post whatever the fuck I want to post that doesn't violate forum rules.

You're the James Harden of posters.

You consistently throw up bullshit and then complain when you don't get the call.

Stop being a fucking flopper.

 

[CupWizier]

Just curious, did I miss a report/rumor saying that the Spurs would be looking to part with Aldridge this summer? What makes him cheaper than Griffin? For the reasons you've mentioned about Griffin their trade value could be close to the same this summer. I'm guessing it somewhat depends on how the Pistons and Spurs finish their respective seasons.

Olshey also said that he was in talks for a player that would have been a significant salary commitment for Jody Allen and she was fine with it. That player would have almost had to be one of Love, Griffin, or Aldridge. I think Olshey will revisit those talks this summer with whoever that player was.

Discussion was based on the speculation that Aldridge would like to come back here some day. I merely expressed my opinion. I base my opinion on trade value due to how most evaluate the two of them, age and it would take a lot more in salary to acquire BG over LMA and Pistons aren't likely to take just expiring contracts and mediocre draft pick.

 

[HailBlazers]

It seemed like last night that Stotts didn't want to put Aminu back in. After Jake messed up and fouled Bertrans on a 3 he reluctantly put him back in. Aminu's very first play he fell asleep off the ball and his man got a wide open 3 in the corner. I was so pissed.

That's right when I was calling for Zach to go in. Stotts had a chance to change the tide but couldnt possibly go off the cue card.

 

[bobf]

Aldridge is averaging 21/9/2 and is an All Star, what is Aminu? He's in his 4th year in Portland and still shooting only 35% on wide open 3s, nobody guards him. Thats not worth a discussion for me, Aldridge is 100 times better than Aminu

The Blazers are already getting at least those "all star" stats of 21/9/2 as a team on the same usage. It's just spread across multiple players.

Points
LMA takes 2x as many shots as Aminu. You can't pretend that those extra shots & touches come out of thin air. They come at the expense of Dame, CJ, and Nurk who combined, along with Chief, are just as efficient as LMA.

Rebounds
Aminu's career rebound rate is the same as LMA. That's a wash at best. Aminu gets fewer ORB because he's camped at the 3pt line. He get's more DRB because he's a better rebounder, in spite of having to contend with Nurk.

Assists
LMA gets 50% more assists per minute than Aminu, but he has the ball twice as much, taking touches away from Nurk, Dame, CJ who all have much better assist rates than LMA.

3-Point Shooting
You complain about Aminu while LMA shoots 26% on wide open 3's? He never bothered to even learn the shot, despite being quite capable just a few feet closer. One-trick pony, mental midget, and lazy.

Offensively it's a sideways move. We are already getting 21/9/2 production on the same usage & minutes.
Defensively Aminu is significantly better, as both DRPM and DBPM show.

Pay more money, add a bad chemistry needy player, and use up money we could use to upgrade somewhere else. No thanks.

 

[CupWizier]

Apparently Pops thinks Aldridge is still a power forward as Poetl is now the starting center.

https://247sports.com/nba/san-anton...mfortable-playing-at-power-forward-130169013/

 

[Propagandist]

Apparently Pops thinks Aldridge is still a power forward as Poetl is now the starting center.

https://247sports.com/nba/san-anton...mfortable-playing-at-power-forward-130169013/

You're a funny dude. Aria Stark would name you Needle.

 

[CupWizier]

The Blazers are already getting at least those "all star" stats of 21/9/2 as a team on the same usage. It's just spread across multiple players.

Points
LMA takes 2x as many shots as Aminu. You can't pretend that those extra shots & touches come out of thin air. They come at the expense of Dame, CJ, and Nurk who combined, along with Chief, are just as efficient as LMA.

Rebounds
Aminu's career rebound rate is the same as LMA. That's a wash at best. Aminu gets fewer ORB because he's camped at the 3pt line. He get's more DRB because he's a better rebounder, in spite of having to contend with Nurk.

Assists
LMA gets 50% more assists per minute than Aminu, but he has the ball twice as much, taking touches away from Nurk, Dame, CJ who all have much better assist rates than LMA.

3-Point Shooting
You complain about Aminu while LMA shoots 26% on wide open 3's? He never bothered to even learn the shot, despite being quite capable just a few feet closer. One-trick pony, mental midget, and lazy.

Offensively it's a sideways move. We are already getting 21/9/2 production on the same usage & minutes.
Defensively Aminu is significantly better, as both DRPM and DBPM show.

Pay more money, add a bad chemistry needy player, and use up money we could use to upgrade somewhere else. No thanks.

Aldridge plays about 4 more minutes than Aminu so are you saying that the pf position is giving the similar production in the same amount of time as Aldridge? Who is this magical superstar that is scoring at a 12ppg game clip in 4 minutes as Aminu only averages 9+ ppg? That's fantastic and we need to exploit it. Who is it?

 

[CupWizier]

You're a funny dude. Aria Stark would name you Needle.

Just so we are on the same page, you do realize that part of the Aldridge discussion was about that Aldridge is now a center and not a power forward?

 

[wizenheimer]

35% from the three is like 52.5% from within the arc and that ain't peanuts.

actually, I don't believe it is, at least not generically

that simple equation ignores driving fouls, shooting fouls, and FT's. It's an incomplete number. that's why eFG% is a nearly useless stat compared to TS%. And TS% only accounts for the direct product of overall shooting. It doesn't account for getting an opposing team into the bonus earlier or getting opposing players in foul trouble, and how those two factors limit a defense.

 

[CupWizier]

actually, I don't believe it is, at least not generically

that simple equation ignores driving fouls, shooting fouls, and FT's. It's an incomplete number. that's why eFG% is a nearly useless stat compared to TS%. And TS% only accounts for the direct product of overall shooting. It doesn't account for getting an opposing team into the bonus earlier or getting opposing players in foul trouble, and how those two factors limit a defense.

All lanny said is that 35% from 3 is equivalent to 52.5% from the 2 point area. Nothing more and nothing less. Not sure why you took a left turn and turned lanny's statement into something ot wasn't. It's a large reason why teams have resorted to shooting many more threes than in years past. Look up how many 3's were being shot by teams 5 years ago.

 

[hoopsjock]

Just so we are on the same page, you do realize that part of the Aldridge discussion was about that Aldridge is now a center and not a power forward?

Once again, we were talking about when Aldridge moves into the twilight of his career being better suited as a center at this point than a FULL-TIME power forward. I even said multiple times that he'd be fine at power forward in SPURTS, which is what the Spurs are doing.

 

[tester551]

All lanny said is that 35% from 3 is equivalent to 52.5% from the 2 point area. Nothing more and nothing less. Not sure why you took a left turn and turned lanny's statement into something ot wasn't. It's a large reason why teams have resorted to shooting many more threes than in years past. Look up how many 3's were being shot by teams 5 years ago.

There wasn't a left turn there at all....
Lanny made a statement that can be factually correct when looking at it under a single lens. However, there is always more to the story. Wizenheimer just added more context to Lanny's statement, and was showing that in real game situations that Lanny's statement is usually incorrect.
Everything that was said was completely relevant.

 

[CupWizier]

Once again, we were talking about when Aldridge moves into the twilight of his career being better suited as a center at this point than a FULL-TIME power forward. I even said multiple times that he'd be fine at power forward in SPURTS, which is what the Spurs are doing.

First, my post wasn;t directed at just you or any other individual as it was a general statement in a discussion where some posters said that Aldridge is a center NOW and shouldn't be playing power forward. My discussions have all been with the idea of trading for him in the off season and not really interested in signing him beyond his contract unless it's reasonable and fits our need. Does that clarify it for you? Do you agree or disagree that he can still play PF and probably just fine for 2 more years?

 

[hoopsjock]

First, my post wasn;t directed at just you or any other individual as it was a general statement in a discussion where some posters said that Aldridge is a center NOW and shouldn't be playing power forward. My discussions have all been with the idea of trading for him in the off season and not really interested in signing him beyond his contract unless it's reasonable and fits our need. Does that clarify it for you? Do you agree or disagree that he can still play PF and probably just fine for 2 more years?

I agree that he can play PF. I disagree that keeping him at that position for a majority of his minutes is best for his career moving forward. If he was on the Blazers next year I would probably start him at PF and take him out a few minutes into the game to bring him back with the 2nd unit as the C, like we did the last few years with McCollum. If he was still here 2-3 years from now I'd transition him to almost exclusively the backup center spot as I think it would prolong his career limiting minutes and playing against bench bigs. My question with him is whether or not he would accept that role even when his skills start to deteriorate? Is Pop playing him at PF right now to placate Aldridge or is it really what he thinks is best? Pop often played a mediocre center with Duncan so he didn't have to be the center too. At the same time Poeltl's emergence, at least defensively, has been one of the reasons for their win streak lately.

The article this thread is about was how Aldridge wanted to come back and finish his career in Portland. Trading for him this off-season is fine to discuss but lets not confuse comments about him coming after his current contract expires with ones about his current skills.

 

[CupWizier]

I agree that he can play PF. I disagree that keeping him at that position for a majority of his minutes is best for his career moving forward. If he was on the Blazers next year I would probably start him at PF and take him out a few minutes into the game to bring him back with the 2nd unit as the C, like we did the last few years with McCollum. If he was still here 2-3 years from now I'd transition him to almost exclusively the backup center spot as I think it would prolong his career limiting minutes and playing against bench bigs. My question with him is whether or not he would accept that role even when his skills start to deteriorate? Is Pop playing him at PF right now to placate Aldridge or is it really what he thinks is best? Pop often played a mediocre center with Duncan so he didn't have to be the center too. At the same time Poeltl's emergence, at least defensively, has been one of the reasons for their win streak lately.

The article this thread is about was how Aldridge wanted to come back and finish his career in Portland. Trading for him this off-season is fine to discuss but lets not confuse comments about him coming after his current contract expires with ones about his current skills.

You pretty much answered your own question when you referred to Poetl's defense. I'm sure Pops feels it gives them a more solid lineup. As for any discussion I have had about Aldridge coming back here one day was with the idea of trading for him as why put it off as with Aldridge next year it would immediately put us into a contenders window. Will it happen? Probably not, but that's where I have been coming from all along. A lot depends on how the Spurs finish and what direction they want to go and what Pops future is.

 

[CupWizier]

There wasn't a left turn there at all....
Lanny made a statement that can be factually correct when looking at it under a single lens. However, there is always more to the story. Wizenheimer just added more context to Lanny's statement, and was showing that in real game situations that Lanny's statement is usually incorrect.
Everything that was said was completely relevant.

okay, so it was a Y and not a left turn.

 

[hoopsjock]

You pretty much answered your own question when you referred to Poetl's defense. I'm sure Pops feels it gives them a more solid lineup. As for any discussion I have had about Aldridge coming back here one day was with the idea of trading for him as why put it off as with Aldridge next year it would immediately put us into a contenders window. Will it happen? Probably not, but that's where I have been coming from all along. A lot depends on how the Spurs finish and what direction they want to go and what Pops future is.

And once again, they start together (just like I suggested if Aldridge was on the Blazers next year) and then have a lot of their minutes staggered. Aldridge played 12 more minutes than Poeltl against us too and all 12 of those minutes were at center plus the times when he was on the court and Poeltl wasn't. It's really close to a 50/50 split for Aldridge between PF and C with Poeltl playing more.

 

[hoopsjock]

You pretty much answered your own question when you referred to Poetl's defense. I'm sure Pops feels it gives them a more solid lineup. As for any discussion I have had about Aldridge coming back here one day was with the idea of trading for him as why put it off as with Aldridge next year it would immediately put us into a contenders window. Will it happen? Probably not, but that's where I have been coming from all along. A lot depends on how the Spurs finish and what direction they want to go and what Pops future is.

Another thing too is that after buying out Gasol they really don't have much depth in terms of bigs making it hard to tell if Pop's lineups are more out of necessity or what's really the optimal positions. I'm not saying that is proof for either of our contentions, just that it is making the data a little harder to decipher.

 

[CupWizier]

And once again, they start together (just like I suggested if Aldridge was on the Blazers next year) and then have a lot of their minutes staggered. Aldridge played 12 more minutes than Poeltl against us too and all 12 of those minutes were at center plus the times when he was on the court and Poeltl wasn't. It's really close to a 50/50 split for Aldridge between PF and C with Poeltl playing more.

My opinion is he has played center for lack of better options. On any team with a decent center he would likely play PF. Other than Poetl, they don't have very good options at center and even he is very inexperienced with lack of playing time.

 

[wizenheimer]

All lanny said is that 35% from 3 is equivalent to 52.5% from the 2 point area. Nothing more and nothing less.

sure 3X8 = 2X12. That's equivalency on a chalkboard. Basketball isn't played on a chalkboard. CJ shoots 46.3% on FG's while Dame shoots 45%; CJ shoots 50.8% on twos while Dame shoots 50.6%; CJ shoots 38% on three's while Dames shoots 36.8%. Well then that settles it....CJ is a better shooter...right?

then why does Dame score 1.36 points/shot while CJ scores 1.19? Why does Dame have a TS% of .591 while CJ is at .557? The reason why is context. That context being that the goal of shooting is to score points, it ain't to have a great shooting percentage. It's score points because...scoreboard. To me, CJ is not a better shooter than Dame because he doesn't score more points shooting, he scores less. How can player X be a better shooter than player Y when player Y scores more points on his shots. That's the thing, Dame shooting yields better results than CJ shooting. You can spit all the hairs you want about raw FG percentages but the actual results of a player's shooting game are measured by the points he scores on the shots he takes.

now, lanny was talking Aminu vs Aldridge and pointing out that 35% on three's wasn't a bad number. It's not great, a ways below average, but probably acceptable for a player that only shoots 3.4 a game. Of course, Aldridge has always been rather inefficient as a shooter, so the comparison between him and Aminu is close, even with Aminu's below average 3 pt shooting. When Aldridge was younger, he could stress an opposing defense and force adjustments when he had his game going well. I doubt he does that much anymore. And the only people Aminu stresses are Blazer fans when he tries to lead a fast break

 

[CupWizier]

sure 3X8 = 2X12. That's equivalency on a chalkboard. Basketball isn't played on a chalkboard. CJ shoots 46.3% on FG's while Dame shoots 45%; CJ shoots 50.8% on twos while Dame shoots 50.6%; CJ shoots 38% on three's while Dames shoots 36.8%. Well then that settles it....CJ is a better shooter...right?

then why does Dame score 1.36 points/shot while CJ scores 1.19? Why does Dame have a TS% of .591 while CJ is at .557? The reason why is context. That context being that the goal of shooting is to score points, it ain't to have a great shooting percentage. It's score points because...scoreboard. To me, CJ is not a better shooter than Dame because he doesn't score more points shooting, he scores less. How can player X be a better shooter than player Y when player Y scores more points on his shots. That's the thing, Dame shooting yields better results than CJ shooting. You can spit all the hairs you want about raw FG percentages but the actual results of a player's shooting game are measured by the points he scores on the shots he takes.

now, lanny was talking Aminu vs Aldridge and pointing out that 35% on three's wasn't a bad number. It's not great, a ways below average, but probably acceptable for a player that only shoots 3.4 a game. Of course, Aldridge has always been rather inefficient as a shooter, so the comparison between him and Aminu is close, even with Aminu's below average 3 pt shooting. When Aldridge was younger, he could stress an opposing defense and force adjustments when he had his game going well. I doubt he does that much anymore. And the only people Aminu stresses are Blazer fans when he tries to lead a fast break

That's nice, but has nothing to do what I or lanny were saying though. Do you really think Aminu is better than Aldridge over all? Also, Aldridge shooting less than a 1/2 three pointer a game isn't even hardly a factor or a concern. Please just give me an answer without a bunch of numbers that you have posted several times already

 

[wizenheimer]

That's nice, but has nothing to do what I or lanny were saying though. Do you really think Aminu is better than Aldridge over all? Please just give me an answer without a bunch of numbers that you have posted several times already

first thing, I don't give a shit if you say "please" when you try and limit somebody else's response, especially mine. You sure don't have any limits on how you post.

secondly, try and find any quote of mine where I said Aminu is better than Aldridge. That's just another in your endless useless parade of stupid straw men you trot out here, day after day, and use to try and instigate pointless arguments

I've made my case and explained my POV. Getting into an argument with you is a waste of time, and yes, I've just wasted some, my bad, but that's enough

 

[CupWizier]

first thing, I don't give a shit if you say "please" when you try and limit somebody else's response, especially mine. You sure don't have any limits on how you post.

secondly, try and find any quote of mine where I said Aminu is better than Aldridge. That's just another in your endless useless parade of stupid straw men you trot out here, day after day, and use to try and instigate pointless arguments

I've made my case and explained my POV. Getting into an argument with you is a waste of time, and yes, I've just wasted some, my bad, but that's enough

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And here is an example of how a poster derails a thread.

IT WAS JUST A FUCKING QUESTION NOT A STATEMENT. NOW GFY






gfy stands for good for you

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Im on my phone so I cant go look at numbers very easily. Heres my thoughts.

If LMA is coming as a center he’s obviously not the starter, that would be Nurk.

If he came over as the PF theres an interesting debate here. I think LMA is a better player then Aminu, not even all that close imo, could you imagine if teams played Aminu like they do LMA? He’s not a very good offensive player when left completely alone...

Aminu:
Better overall defender, especially guarding wings and switching. Better Chemistry guy, doesnt need the ball in his hands. Works harder then LMA who is kind of a lazy player at times in my opinion.

Aldridge:
Able to post up create his own shot, better defender against bigs and stronger players, also has become a good help defender in SA. The defense will not leave him open so will create space for others.

Depending on the cost and when they get him Id choose LmA, but Im in the minority and I understand that.

 

[hoopsjock]

Im on my phone so I cant go look at numbers very easily. Heres my thoughts.

If LMA is coming as a center he’s obviously not the starter, that would be Nurk.

If he came over as the PF theres an interesting debate here. I think LMA is a better player then Aminu, not even all that close imo, could you imagine if teams played Aminu like they do LMA? He’s not a very good offensive player when left completely alone...

Aminu:
Better overall defender, especially guarding wings and switching. Better Chemistry guy, doesnt need the ball in his hands. Works harder then LMA who is kind of a lazy player at times in my opinion.

Aldridge:
Able to post up create his own shot, better defender against bigs and stronger players, also has become a good help defender in SA. The defense will not leave him open so will create space for others.

Depending on the cost and when they get him Id choose LmA, but Im in the minority and I understand that.

I get comparing our starting PF to one on another team. Aldridge is a way better player. What I don't get is why we'd have to choose one over the other. Aminu could in theory (maybe not under Stotts) play some SF too and Aldridge can definitely play some center. Aminu is also a free agent with Full Bird Rights so we could easily keep both, if the luxury tax wasn't an issue.

Ideally I'd rather have someone else than either of those two.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The Spurs would never trade LMA, he's their Duncan 2.0.