Notice LONGTIME NBA ANALYST (MARK STEIN) PREDICTS BLAZERS WILL TRADE MCCOLLUM

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Natebishop3 said:
Klay wasn't Klay when they traded Monta.

They traded Monta during Klay's rookie season. He was averaging 12.5 ppg, shooting 44% from the field and 41% from three.

Monta was averaging 22 ppg, 6 assists, and 1.5 steals per game.

Do we have a Klay? I don't know. But it's not like Klay was a sure thing when they dumped Monta.
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I'd love to have a young, 6'7 SG who plays defense and gets 18.5pts Per 36 on 44/41/87 splits. You used Klays stats but didnt mention he was inly playing 24 minutes per game co.pared to Monta, who was playing much more. We don't have that guy (unless Trent exceeds even his highest expectations).
 
BonesJones said:
I'd love to have a young, 6'7 SG who plays defense and gets 18.5pts Per 36 on 44/41/87 splits. You used Klays stats but didnt mention he was inly playing 24 minutes per game co.pared to Monta, who was playing much more. We don't have that guy (unless Trent exceeds even his highest expectations).
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People can't shit on per 36 sometimes and then use it when it fits though.
 
Even if we were willing to do a trade for CJ (I doubt we are, I think he is borderline untradeable at this point) it would be difficult to find proper value for him. What is realistically the level of small forward or power forward that we should be looking to acquire? We will not get a player like Porzingis or Davis, we won’t get Giannis etc. Paul George is more or less the level we should be aiming for but we already had that chance and passed. Right now the chance is gone.

Maybe I could see us taking less than we should and bring someone like Blake Griffin or trade him for a package that will include a decent player, a young player and a pick.
 
Sarni said:
Even if we were willing to do a trade for CJ (I doubt we are, I think he is borderline untradeable at this point) it would be difficult to find proper value for him. What is realistically the level of small forward or power forward that we should be looking to acquire? We will not get a player like Porzingis or Davis, we won’t get Giannis etc. Paul George is more or less the level we should be aiming for but we already had that chance and passed. Right now the chance is gone.

Maybe I could see us taking less than we should and bring someone like Blake Griffin or trade him for a package that will include a decent player, a young player and a pick.
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I'd look to trade him for Tyreke at the deadline.

IND Gets: CJ McCollum, Meyers Leonard, Jake Layman
POR Gets: Tyreke Evans, Bojan Bogdanovic, Cory Joseph, Alize Johnson, 2019 IND 1st

A McCollum/Oladipo backcourt makes a ton of sense, as Oladipo is a good defender and that combination would be lethal. Tyreke is a possible rental for them, and all those guys are expiring contracts.

Use the IND pick to shed Turner (Sacremento?) And then we'd have apx. $22M in space to add to a lineup of Lillard, Tyreke (Cap Hold ~$15M), Harkless, Collins, Nurkic, Trent, and Simons.

If we want Cousins we could send out Nurkic for picks for full space, or we could go after a guy like Middleton and trade Harkless elsewhere. Sign Middleton to the MAX, bring back Aminu for the remaining $3M-$4M in space, and resign Curry for the Room Exception would be ideal.

Lillard (36) / Evans (12)
Evans (20) / Curry (28)
Middleton (28) / Trent (20)
Aminu (27) / Collins (14) / Middleton (7)
Nurkic (32) / Collins (16)

The switchability between Evans, Middleton, and Aminu would be nice, and we'd have more planning with 5 elite shooters (Dame, Tyreke, Middleton, Curry, Trent).

I dunno.
 
BonesJones said:
I'd look to trade him for Tyreke at the deadline.

IND Gets: CJ McCollum, Meyers Leonard, Jake Layman
POR Gets: Tyreke Evans, Bojan Bogdanovic, Cory Joseph, Alize Johnson, 2019 IND 1st

A McCollum/Oladipo backcourt makes a ton of sense, as Oladipo is a good defender and that combination would be lethal. Tyreke is a possible rental for them, and all those guys are expiring contracts.

Use the IND pick to shed Turner (Sacremento?) And then we'd have apx. $22M in space to add to a lineup of Lillard, Tyreke (Cap Hold ~$15M), Harkless, Collins, Nurkic, Trent, and Simons.

If we want Cousins we could send out Nurkic for picks for full space, or we could go after a guy like Middleton and trade Harkless elsewhere. Sign Middleton to the MAX, bring back Aminu for the remaining $3M-$4M in space, and resign Curry for the Room Exception would be ideal.

Lillard (36) / Evans (12)
Evans (20) / Curry (28)
Middleton (28) / Trent (20)
Aminu (27) / Collins (14) / Middleton (7)
Nurkic (32) / Collins (16)

The switchability between Evans, Middleton, and Aminu would be nice, and we'd have more planning with 5 elite shooters (Dame, Tyreke, Middleton, Curry, Trent).

I dunno.
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But we would essentially be getting half year rentals of Evans and Bogdanovic, a mid first round pick and a player we would never use back in this trade. The most valuable commodity would be cap space.

Of course Evans or Bogdanovic could re-sign here but you never know.

I would probably trade him for Middleton and change if Middleton had a longer deal.
 
KingSpeed said:
I don't understand why trading CJ for a good forward "balances" the roster. You want great players at EVERY position. Would it have "balanced the roster" to trade Klay Thompson for Kevin Love?
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Seriously? The Warriors have a couple of guys named Durant and Green at forward. It's not exactly an area of weakness for them. Not sure you can compare the front court of Durant/Green to Aminu/Harkless.....where there is a MASSIVE need for an upgrade.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Do we have a Klay? I don't know. But it's not like Klay was a sure thing when they dumped Monta.
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It's the offseason so I'm obviously forgetting, but could you remind me the name of Portland's Lotto SG coming off of his rookie year? Clearing PT for promising young talent is a smart way to go, which is why I supported letting Ed Davis go even though I liked him as a player. Btw, Klay was the 11th pick in the 2011 draft while Collins was the 10th pick.

On the OP, I can recall plenty of Blazer predictions by Mark Stein but not one of them coming true. Pretty much all of his speculations have had Portland giving up their top talents for scraps to big markets (to have a fresh start!). Not surprised that this one didn't happen like he called it either. As far as reworking the roster around a CJ trade, I continue to generally support the idea for the oft-mentioned reasons about being undersized in the backcourt. However, it's not like the current backcourt's chemistry sucks. What they really need is Zach to blossom, Nurk to improve his focus & conditioning, and to somehow land an athletic SF who can stroke it from the outside. Those things could happen without dealing CJ.

STOMP
 
Sarni said:
But we would essentially be getting half year rentals of Evans and Bogdanovic, a mid first round pick and a player we would never use back in this trade. The most valuable commodity would be cap space.

Of course Evans or Bogdanovic could re-sign here but you never know.

I would probably trade him for Middleton and change if Middleton had a longer deal.
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Nah, we bring back Tyreke at any cost. Based off last year, he's a better player than C.J. I love Tyrekes game.
 
Otto Porter Jr. would be perfect and would give us a real chance if Zach could develop to his fullest potential as well. Maybe Washington goes after Cousins next year and is willing to trade Porter for cap space. If give a pick to WAS and a pick to a 3rd Team to take Harkless and Meyers (who'd be expiring).
 
This season we'll see whether Collins is taking the leap or not (though could be his 3rd year too). If he's better, much better, then we should pair him with Nurk and go the twin towers look. Collins already has great defensive instincts. Nurk eats up space. Pairing them for 30+ minutes would solidify the frontcourt IMO.

The question remains.....does trading CJ for a SF like Wiggins or Butler make us better or just create a new weak-spot in the lineup. I'm a willing fan to allow Neil the time/space to continue to build this team into a team to shine in 2020-2025 (Nurk, Collins, Trent, Simons), after the W's dynasty ends.
 
Harry's Raincoat said:
The question remains.....does trading CJ for a SF like Wiggins or Butler make us better or just create a new weak-spot in the lineup.
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IMO, we have so much more ability to replace the production of CJ in the back court than to somehow increase the production of the front court out of thin air (or Zach's development).

Between Curry, Baldwin, Trent, Stauskas, I think you pretty easily replace at least 80% of the offense to say nothing of the improvement in defense and ball movement. Add to that the increase in production at SF (preferred) and I think it is a net gain.

Now there are times the Blazers would miss CJ unique ability to just go out and create a shot on his own....but for me, that tremendous skill is balanced throughout the game by how often he brings the entire offense to a dead halt and how often he is a liability on defense. Yes I know, they were better defensively this year....but I credit way more of that to that Nurkic was here for an entire season and you added Zach who is a very good rim protector. There we also a significant increase in defense the year before....as soon as Nurkic showed up from the trade. I don't credit CJ for much of that.
 
BonesJones said:
Otto Porter Jr. would be perfect and would give us a real chance if Zach could develop to his fullest potential as well. Maybe Washington goes after Cousins next year and is willing to trade Porter for cap space. If give a pick to WAS and a pick to a 3rd Team to take Harkless and Meyers (who'd be expiring).
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Agreed. OPJ would be a perfect add to this roster.

STOMP
 
Sarni said:
Even if we were willing to do a trade for CJ (I doubt we are, I think he is borderline untradeable at this point) it would be difficult to find proper value for him. What is realistically the level of small forward or power forward that we should be looking to acquire? We will not get a player like Porzingis or Davis, we won’t get Giannis etc. Paul George is more or less the level we should be aiming for but we already had that chance and passed. Right now the chance is gone.

Maybe I could see us taking less than we should and bring someone like Blake Griffin or trade him for a package that will include a decent player, a young player and a pick.
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There's this guy in our division that would be a perfect fit. Let me introduce you to Jimmy Butler.
 
hoopsjock said:
I totally get that. I'd counter with a couple of things.

1) The Blazers could still make trades to balance out the roster more.

2) I know it's stupid to think of free agents and cap space, but if Dame could just convince one guy to come here next summer they'd potentially have enough to offer a max contract. They could go after a guy like Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, or Khris Middleton.
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I love your debate tactics.
 
TBpup said:
IMO, we have so much more ability to replace the production of CJ in the back court than to somehow increase the production of the front court out of thin air (or Zach's development).

Between Curry, Baldwin, Trent, Stauskas, I think you pretty easily replace at least 80% of the offense to say nothing of the improvement in defense and ball movement. Add to that the increase in production at SF (preferred) and I think it is a net gain.

Now there are times the Blazers would miss CJ unique ability to just go out and create a shot on his own....but for me, that tremendous skill is balanced throughout the game by how often he brings the entire offense to a dead halt and how often he is a liability on defense. Yes I know, they were better defensively this year....but I credit way more of that to that Nurkic was here for an entire season and you added Zach who is a very good rim protector. There we also a significant increase in defense the year before....as soon as Nurkic showed up from the trade. I don't credit CJ for much of that.
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I agree. I think the very reason we loaded up on guards, is because Neil anticipates a possible trade of CJ. IMO, his value goes up more after the season starts as teams may speculate we are serious about trading him, hopefully creating a bidding war for him.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Klay wasn't Klay when they traded Monta.

They traded Monta during Klay's rookie season. He was averaging 12.5 ppg, shooting 44% from the field and 41% from three.

Monta was averaging 22 ppg, 6 assists, and 1.5 steals per game.

Do we have a Klay? I don't know. But it's not like Klay was a sure thing when they dumped Monta.
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The flaw in your argument is that you're comparing Klay to Monta when you should be comparing Klay to Baldwin.

There's no one in the team that is gonna average 12.5 ppg, shooting 44% from the field and 41% from three in CJ's stead. Those are GREAT numbers for a rookie.

Like I said, we don't have a Klay.
 
Hoopguru said:
I agree. I think the very reason we loaded up on guards, is because Neil anticipates a possible trade of CJ. IMO, his value goes up more after the season starts as teams may speculate we are serious about trading him, hopefully creating a bidding war for him.
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I think that loading up on guards gives flexibility for a future trade of CJ (or even Dame) if one or more of the young guys pan out. I don't think there's much chance he's thinking of a trade this season.
 
e_blazer said:
I think that loading up on guards gives flexibility for a future trade of CJ (or even Dame) if one or more of the young guys pan out. I don't think there's much chance he's thinking of a trade this season.
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maybe not but if the right player presents itself, it could. If Minnie mad Butler available for example I think CJ and some would be in play.
 
BonesJones said:
I'd look to trade him for Tyreke at the deadline.

IND Gets: CJ McCollum, Meyers Leonard, Jake Layman
POR Gets: Tyreke Evans, Bojan Bogdanovic, Cory Joseph, Alize Johnson, 2019 IND 1st

A McCollum/Oladipo backcourt makes a ton of sense, as Oladipo is a good defender and that combination would be lethal. Tyreke is a possible rental for them, and all those guys are expiring contracts.

Use the IND pick to shed Turner (Sacremento?) And then we'd have apx. $22M in space to add to a lineup of Lillard, Tyreke (Cap Hold ~$15M), Harkless, Collins, Nurkic, Trent, and Simons.

If we want Cousins we could send out Nurkic for picks for full space, or we could go after a guy like Middleton and trade Harkless elsewhere. Sign Middleton to the MAX, bring back Aminu for the remaining $3M-$4M in space, and resign Curry for the Room Exception would be ideal.

Lillard (36) / Evans (12)
Evans (20) / Curry (28)
Middleton (28) / Trent (20)
Aminu (27) / Collins (14) / Middleton (7)
Nurkic (32) / Collins (16)

The switchability between Evans, Middleton, and Aminu would be nice, and we'd have more planning with 5 elite shooters (Dame, Tyreke, Middleton, Curry, Trent).

I dunno.
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So you say a "huge no" to my CJ trade because you don't like the roster two years from now but then propose a trade without top end talent either? Tyreke had a really good year last year but it was only 52 games. Applying the same logic you applied to my trade in two years we could be left with trading CJ for Alize Johnson.

;)
 
dviss1 said:
The flaw in your argument is that you're comparing Klay to Monta when you should be comparing Klay to Baldwin.

There's no one in the team that is gonna average 12.5 ppg, shooting 44% from the field and 41% from three in CJ's stead. Those are GREAT numbers for a rookie.

Like I said, we don't have a Klay.
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I didn't say that we did. Which is why I said, "Do we have a Klay? I don't know." I was just explaining the idea of balancing out the roster, as Kingspeed brought up Golden State.

But Klay wasn't some superstar off the bench. He was a solid rookie. Maybe Simons is that guy in a year? We don't know. But the idea is that you trade CJ for a comparable player at a position where we don't have a talented player that deserves minutes. Right now the forward positions are a huge question mark for me.

Out of all the guys that we just watched on our summer league team, who has the most potential to step up and be a scorer for this team?

Simons
Trent
Layman
Baldwin

We NEED a third scorer. Collins deserves minutes, but he's such a project on offense that I have zero expectations for him as any kind of scorer. Aminu and Harkless are role players. We need a third guy who can put up numbers consistently. Where are those points going to come from?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I didn't say that we did. Which is why I said, "Do we have a Klay? I don't know." I was just explaining the idea of balancing out the roster, as Kingspeed brought up Golden State.

But Klay wasn't some superstar off the bench. He was a solid rookie. Maybe Simons is that guy in a year? We don't know. But the idea is that you trade CJ for a comparable player at a position where we don't have a talented player that deserves minutes. Right now the forward positions are a huge question mark for me.

Out of all the guys that we just watched on our summer league team, who has the most potential to step up and be a scorer for this team?

Simons
Trent
Layman
Baldwin

We NEED a third scorer. Collins deserves minutes, but he's such a project on offense that I have zero expectations for him as any kind of scorer. Aminu and Harkless are role players. We need a third guy who can put up numbers consistently. Where are those points going to come from?
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You're creating a false narrative and you tend to do that. No one was calling Klay a "superstar off the bench". But please don't deny putting up numbers like that in your rookie season is solid. That's the reason they traded a 22 ppg scorer for an injury prone center who never proved anything. They drafted Klay for that very reason, to trade Ellis. We don't have anyone that would contribute like that if we give up CJ. This is my entire point.
 
dviss1 said:
You're creating a false narrative and you tend to do that. No one was calling Klay a "superstar off the bench". But please don't deny putting up numbers like that in your rookie season is solid. That's the reason they traded a 22 ppg scorer for an injury prone center who never proved anything. They drafted Klay for that very reason, to trade Ellis. We don't have anyone that would contribute like that if we give up CJ. This is my entire point.
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:smiley-whatever:

And you like to make personal attacks when they're not necessary. Just make your point and leave it at that. Don't psychoanalyze my post please.

I was trying to say that there was never a guarantee that Klay was going to turn into a 20 ppg scorer, which is what they traded in Monta. He put up nice numbers as a rookie and they dealt Monta for a center that eventually helped win them a championship.

If they drafted Klay to get rid of Monta, why did we just draft two shooting guards? (and sign two more)
 
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Natebishop3 said:
:smiley-whatever:

And you like to make personal attacks when they're not necessary. Just make your point and leave it at that. Don't psychoanalyze my post please.

I was trying to say that there was never a guarantee that Klay was going to turn into a 20 ppg scorer, which is what they traded in Monta. He put up nice numbers as a rookie and they dealt Monta for a center that eventually helped win them a championship.

If they drafted Klay to get rid of Monta, why did we just draft two shooting guards? (and sign two more)
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This wouldn't happen if you didn't put words in people's mouths. You were trying to say I was saying that Klay was a "superstar off the bench". I said nothing like that. But Klay was a lottery pick. You expect lottery picks to at least become starters. If you thought I was attacking you personally by saying you tend to create false narratives, thicken up your skin... I'm literally talking about your post. And if you don't think that they drafted Klay to have options with Monta, I'd disagree.
 
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