Matisse Thybulle Signs Full-MLE Offer with Mavericks / Blazers match

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Natebishop3 said:
Look at it this way... is there a free agent out there at this point that you'd rather have?
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Dario Saric has untapped "potential". Only a coaching staff as great as the Billups Bros. can revitalize big names that went bust.
 
There's a much greater chance that we don't meet our minimum team salary than we approach the luxury tax threshold with the way this team is headed. Doesn't mean you hand out absurd contracts (like Alan Crabbe 2016), but I think most teams would consider Thybulle at 10 mil a good value. If he ever gets pushed out of the rotation it should be easy to trade him.
 
twobullz said:
No reason to cut Watford either and they did. So would not be surprised either way.
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Geez, the Watford stuff is just....

If Watford was so good, why is he still unsigned? Maybe he has a bunch of minimum offers, but why hasn't he found anything more than the minimum yet?
 
If we do not match tisse and dame is traded and the $$ coming back is significantly less, how are we gunna meet the salary floor?
 
BOOM -- truth spoken -- If Wat was so good why is he still un-signed --- nice post B-Roy

Also I am kind of mixed on him being a MLE player but with all the stupid silly money I have seen thrown about this offseason seems about right but will Jody pony up cause this front office says a lot but does not back it up
 
inconceivable said:
If we do not match tisse and dame is traded and the $$ coming back is significantly less, how are we gunna meet the salary floor?
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How would the money coming back be significantly less?
 
inconceivable said:
If we do not match tisse and dame is traded and the $$ coming back is significantly less, how are we gunna meet the salary floor?
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Money coming back won't be significantly less lol.

But I get it, if it's expirings, you will need to meet the floor next year.

I think there's an argument to matching and an argument to not.
 
blazerkor said:
And if there is, this doesn't use up our MLE, we have bird rights on him. So we can still get another MLE level player to bolster this roster or to use in trades later.
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Portland has Bird rights, so Blazers would still have the MLE to use.

There are 2 issue/challenges:
1) Depending upon what comes back in the Dame trade - using the MLE could push Portland into the Tax (and this roster isn't worth being in the tax for)
2) The remaining FA market is atrocious. There really aren't many good players out there worth using the MLE on.
 
B-Roy said:
Geez, the Watford stuff is just....

If Watford was so good, why is he still unsigned? Maybe he has a bunch of minimum offers, but why hasn't he found anything more than the minimum yet?
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I don't think Watford is amazing, but this logic is a little too simplistic. People hold out for bigger contracts all the time. Will he be one of those? Don't know.

Just because Jaylen Brown hasn't got a max extension doesn't mean he won't get it, isn't deserving, and isn't better than some of the guys who have already got theirs.
 
Ed O said:
Dude is a career 33% three point shooter.

He's a "_ and D" player.
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I spent most of a decade watching LMA shoot 18'ers at 41%...50% eFG is good enough for an elite defender. Marcus Smart, for example, has a career 32% 3pt% (33% last year) and, at $20M, was considered such a bargain that the Celtics got picks back for him in the Porzingis trade.
And in limited samples (1/3 of the season or so last year), he shot 39% for us. Shooting 66% on FTs career probably means he's never going to be great at shooting, but 33-38% is very serviceable for a wing stopper making the MLE (or less!)
 
Tince said:
I don't think Watford is amazing, but this logic is a little too simplistic. People hold out for bigger contracts all the time. Will he be one of those? Don't know.

Just because Jaylen Brown hasn't got a max extension doesn't mean he won't get it, isn't deserving, and isn't better than some of the guys who have already got theirs.
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Not the same situation. Watford is a minimum/near minimum player. Market does not care about minimum guys. I just don't see the reason to be upset about Watford.
 
B-Roy said:
Geez, the Watford stuff is just....

If Watford was so good, why is he still unsigned? Maybe he has a bunch of minimum offers, but why hasn't he found anything more than the minimum yet?
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The new CBA dramatically increased the financial value of signing 2nd round picks to long term contracts. Cronin couldn't even trade Watford for a 2nd round pick, therefore: clean out your locker Trendon.
 
inconceivable said:
If we do not match tisse and dame is traded and the $$ coming back is significantly less, how are we gunna meet the salary floor?
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This is not a concern.
All the teams discussed in trades are close to the tax (or can only send out more than they take in). Portland isn't taking significant less money back. It's not feasible.

Portland is already over the floor & is reasonably close to the tax line.
 
Tince said:
How would the money coming back be significantly less?
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If herro is turned into picks by other teams, basically, we get lesser-paid player/s and a bunch of FRPs. Or is there a rule we should get at least X% of Dame's salary in return?.
 
Tince said:
For the TP-MLE, this seems like a fairly easy match. Tradable contract come any deadline for a team looking to add an elite defender.
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He was traded, along with a 2023 second rounder, for McDaniels and two future second rounders. So... not much, if any, value for him, and that was when he was making about $4.4m a year.

McDaniels signed for two years, $9m total, and it looks like Thybulle would be making much more than that.

I'm not convinced that we'd be able to trade him for anything, given he was barely worth anything before, when he was cheaper.
 
B-Roy said:
Geez, the Watford stuff is just....

If Watford was so good, why is he still unsigned? Maybe he has a bunch of minimum offers, but why hasn't he found anything more than the minimum yet?
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I like Trendon, I think he's got a great motor and BBIQ but his combination of a lack of size and athleticism makes it hard for me to see how he can meaningfully contribute to winning basketball... that still doesn't explain why we cut him because I don't think we're going to be trying to win a lot of games. Maybe it was at Trendon's request and his agent gave him bad info about teams that were interested.
 
B-Roy said:
Not the same situation. Watford is a minimum/near minimum player. Market does not care about minimum guys. I just don't see the reason to be upset about Watford.
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Correct. Every situation is different.

If Watford ends up being un-signed, then the market will have shown he's not worth a minimum contract. If he gets a minimum deal, it'll confirm Portland had him at market value, if he does get more, then we'll see if he had more value to another team.
 
Ed O said:
He was traded, along with a 2023 second rounder, for McDaniels and two future second rounders. So... not much, if any, value for him, and that was when he was making about $4.4m a year.

McDaniels signed for two years, $9m total, and it looks like Thybulle would be making much more than that.

I'm not convinced that we'd be able to trade him for anything, given he was barely worth anything before, when he was cheaper.
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Wasn't he apart of a 4 team trade?

It's possible his value will go down (or up). If Portland has grand plans for his salary slot, then I won't lose any sleep over not matching.
 
BrianFromWA said:
I spent most of a decade watching LMA shoot 18'ers at 41%...50% eFG is good enough for an elite defender. Marcus Smart, for example, has a career 32% 3pt% (33% last year) and, at $20M, was considered such a bargain that the Celtics got picks back for him in the Porzingis trade.
And in limited samples (1/3 of the season or so last year), he shot 39% for us. Shooting 66% on FTs career probably means he's never going to be great at shooting, but 33-38% is very serviceable for a wing stopper making the MLE (or less!)
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But he's not a 33-38% shooter... he's a 30.1-36.5% three point shooter.

He is really, really bad at it. He was almost unplayable in Philadelphia because he was so bad offensively, which is why they gave him away.

Having a defensive stopper on an MLE contract when your key three players are all guards and you're probably going to be bumping around in the lottery doesn't add much value to the team, and if he's paid too much he actually might cost us something to get out from under his contract.
 
inconceivable said:
If herro is turned into picks by other teams, basically, we get lesser-paid player/s and a bunch of FRPs. Or is there a rule we should get at least X% of Dame's salary in return?.
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Gotcha... you're saying a 3 team deal with someone like the Spurs who might be willing to take on Herro for nothing?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I think the main reason why I would have kept Trendon is that he was making less than a minimum contract AND he's a great lockerroom guy. I think we're going to need that.
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I didn't even know a player could make less than the minimum. I thought by definition the minimum was the minimum.
 
Tince said:
I didn't even know a player could make less than the minimum. I thought by definition the minimum was the minimum.
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Well, we signed him to a rookie contract a couple years ago, which is less than we could sign him for now.
 
Ed O said:
But he's not a 33-38% shooter... he's a 30.1-36.5% three point shooter.

He is really, really bad at it. He was almost unplayable in Philadelphia because he was so bad offensively, which is why they gave him away.

Having a defensive stopper on an MLE contract when your key three players are all guards and you're probably going to be bumping around in the lottery doesn't add much value to the team, and if he's paid too much he actually might cost us something to get out from under his contract.
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38.8% three point shooter for us though :dunno:
 
a couple of CBA rule changes to take note of:

* the MLE (and BAE) can now be used like a TPE for a trade. It may very well have excellent value around the trade deadline. The hard cap rule will still apply though

* teams have to be at the salary floor (90% of the cap) on the FIRST day of the regular season. Team's below the floor will have that amount added to their cap so teams can't use the margin to make unbalanced trades any more. The biggest penalty is that a team caught below the floor can not make any transaction for the rest of the season that reduces team salary. Starting in 2024-25, teams below the floor at the start of the regular season can not receive and tax money when that money is disbursed. Essentially, all the previous advantages of being under the minimum team salary are gone and there are now penalties instead

at least that's the way I'm reading things
 
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