McMillan liked what he saw last night

[julius]

Why do people feel the need to tear down one player with subjective terms such as "mediocre" in order to elevate another player?

Roy has been "bad" this preseason. Should he not start as well?

I believe it's because Joel has never actually been that good in the regular season, he's 30 this year and it's not like he's all the sudden going to get a ton better, AND Greg has already averaged more ppg than Joel ever had, has a higher PER, and considering it was the 1st season after a MF, his rebound #'s are on par with Joel's.

As for Roy, his #'s are bad in the pre-season, but his career #'s are significantly better than anyone elses on the teams. Joel stats, to be honest, aren't really that impressive.

A career high of 6.4 ppg and a career high of 8.7 rebounds a game?

Those are awesome stats...for a backup. For a starter, on a team you want to make it to the finals (and has a better, younger and more athletic C)? I hope not.

That's the guy who starts ahead of the #1 pick in the draft, who has the potential to be a career 18-12 guy, and has been playing a lot better than Joel has this pre-season, and if you really think about it, didn't play worse than Joel did last year?

 

[PapaG]

I believe it's because Joel has never actually been that good in the regular season, he's 30 this year and it's not like he's all the sudden going to get a ton better, AND Greg has already averaged more ppg than Joel ever had, has a higher PER, and considering it was the 1st season after a MF, his rebound #'s are on par with Joel's.

As for Roy, his #'s are bad in the pre-season, but his career #'s are significantly better than anyone elses on the teams. Joel stats, to be honest, aren't really that impressive.

A career high of 6.4 ppg and a career high of 8.7 rebounds a game?

Those are awesome stats...for a backup. For a starter, on a team you want to make it to the finals (and has a better, younger and more athletic C)? I hope not.

That's the guy who starts ahead of the #1 pick in the draft, who has the potential to be a career 18-12 guy, and has been playing a lot better than Joel has this pre-season, and if you really think about it, didn't play worse than Joel did last year?

"Good" based on what? His job is rebounding and blocking shots. He does a more than "good" job of it. It baffles me that some people don't realize that some players are role players. Is Oden more talented all-around than Joel? I sure as hell hope so. Do I think Oden should be starting? Hell yes. Does that have any impact on how "good" Joel has been with the Blazers. Of course not.

 

[SnakeOiler]

A lot of people get paid to do things that they aren't good at.

pointless argument.

Nate's proven record of improvement has way more to do with the players, than with him. There was no where to go but up when he took over. Now let's see what he does with talent and no excuses.

you have it completely backward. there were many places to go but up. Nate made it so they went up despite your negative opinion. now it's up to the players to take it to the next level.

 

[Ed O]

"Good" based on what? His job is rebounding and blocking shots. He does a more than "good" job of it. It baffles me that some people don't realize that some players are role players. Is Oden more talented all-around than Joel? I sure as hell hope so. Do I think Oden should be starting? Hell yes. Does that have any impact on how "good" Joel has been with the Blazers. Of course not.

It's a reflection of how good you think Joel is, though. If Joel were as good as Dwight Howard or a healthy Yao Ming, I doubt that you (or anyone) would be upset that Oden is coming in off the bench.

The argument seemed to be that because Oden is not consistent, he doesn't deserve to start. He has peaks and valleys, and I don't think that he's consistent... so I agree with the inconsistency statement. The reason I don't think that should be a reason not to start him is because even WITH those inconsistencies, he's better than Joel.

Joel is not--and never has been, in the NBA--particularly good. I say this as probably the first Blazers fan to call for him to be signed as a free agent (arguing that, since he was relatively young and had started many games in his career, he might be a good value). He's a good bench player and a serviceable starter, but he's not GOOD for a starter.

That's not slagging on Przybilla because of Oden. It's just stating what many of us take to be facts.

Ed O.

 

[Idog1976]

It's a reflection of how good you think Joel is, though. If Joel were as good as Dwight Howard or a healthy Yao Ming, I doubt that you (or anyone) would be upset that Oden is coming in off the bench.

The argument seemed to be that because Oden is not consistent, he doesn't deserve to start. He has peaks and valleys, and I don't think that he's consistent... so I agree with the inconsistency statement. The reason I don't think that should be a reason not to start him is because even WITH those inconsistencies, he's better than Joel.

Joel is not--and never has been, in the NBA--particularly good. I say this as probably the first Blazers fan to call for him to be signed as a free agent (arguing that, since he was relatively young and had started many games in his career, he might be a good value). He's a good bench player and a serviceable starter, but he's not GOOD for a starter.

That's not slagging on Przybilla because of Oden. It's just stating what many of us take to be facts.

Ed O.

^^^^^^^^this. Well said Ed O. I completely agree.

 

[PapaG]

It's a reflection of how good you think Joel is, though. If Joel were as good as Dwight Howard or a healthy Yao Ming, I doubt that you (or anyone) would be upset that Oden is coming in off the bench.

The argument seemed to be that because Oden is not consistent, he doesn't deserve to start. He has peaks and valleys, and I don't think that he's consistent... so I agree with the inconsistency statement. The reason I don't think that should be a reason not to start him is because even WITH those inconsistencies, he's better than Joel.

Joel is not--and never has been, in the NBA--particularly good. I say this as probably the first Blazers fan to call for him to be signed as a free agent (arguing that, since he was relatively young and had started many games in his career, he might be a good value). He's a good bench player and a serviceable starter, but he's not GOOD for a starter.

That's not slagging on Przybilla because of Oden. It's just stating what many of us take to be facts.

Ed O.

I'm not sure why you addressed your post to me, since I said that Oden is a better player and should be starting.

I took issue with Przy being subjectively labeled as not a "good" player. He's a role player who started on a 54-win team. You also may want to define "good" for what Przy was asked to do before talking about "facts".

 

[Ed O]

I'm not sure why you addressed your post to me, since I said that Oden is a better player and should be starting.

I took issue with Przy being subjectively labeled as not a "good" player. He's a role player who started on a 54-win team.

Well, I addressed you because I agree with the notion you disagreed with: that Joel is a good player. I also disagree that people are putting Joel down because they like Oden.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Well, I addressed you because I agree with the notion you disagreed with: that Joel is a good player. I also disagree that people are putting Joel down because they like Oden.

Ed O.

Great. Define "good" and explain why Przy is not "good". Also, you may want to amend your argument about Oden's "consistency", since I think he should be starting. Unless that wasn't meant to be addressed to me and my "argument".

 

[Nikolokolus]

Great. Define "good" and explain why Przy is not "good". Also, you may want to amend your argument about Oden's "consistency", since I think he should be starting. Unless that wasn't meant to be addressed to me and my "argument".

I don't know what Ed's definition of good is, but "good" would have to include the ability to generate more offense than what can be had on just putbacks ... although once upon a time Nick Van Exel and he could run a pretty decent pick and roll ... I'd rate Joel as a very good defensive center, a superb rebounder and an absolute non-entity when it comes to the offensive end of the court, put all that together and he's a "serviceable" starter, but not quite "good."

 

[julius]

It's a reflection of how good you think Joel is, though. If Joel were as good as Dwight Howard or a healthy Yao Ming, I doubt that you (or anyone) would be upset that Oden is coming in off the bench.

The argument seemed to be that because Oden is not consistent, he doesn't deserve to start. He has peaks and valleys, and I don't think that he's consistent... so I agree with the inconsistency statement. The reason I don't think that should be a reason not to start him is because even WITH those inconsistencies, he's better than Joel.

Joel is not--and never has been, in the NBA--particularly good. I say this as probably the first Blazers fan to call for him to be signed as a free agent (arguing that, since he was relatively young and had started many games in his career, he might be a good value). He's a good bench player and a serviceable starter, but he's not GOOD for a starter.

That's not slagging on Przybilla because of Oden. It's just stating what many of us take to be facts.

Ed O.

And this, my fellow geeks, is why my rights were purchased by Ed O.

julius (soon to be a charter member in ed o properties)

 

[PapaG]

I don't know what Ed's definition of good is, but "good" would have to include the ability to generate more offense than what can be had on just putbacks ... although once upon a time Nick Van Exel and he could run a pretty decent pick and roll ... I'd rate Joel as a very good defensive center, a superb rebounder and an absolute non-entity when it comes to the offensive end of the court, put all that together and he's a "serviceable" starter, but not quite "good."

So, were Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman not "good" players as well? I'm not saying that Przy has rebounded or blocked shots as well as them, but if we're including the ability to create offense, wouldn't these to not be "good" as well?

As I said, define "good", Ed. Or don't.

 

[PapaG]

And this, my fellow geeks, is why my rights were purchased by Ed O.

julius (soon to be a charter member in ed o properties)

Yes. A sycophant to a poster creating a strawman argument toward my post.

Be proud, Julius.

 

[PapaG]

Meh.

I think Joel has been a "good" player in terms of what he was asked to do for this team. If others disagree, oh well, but I do see it as a slam toward Przy.

 

[julius]

Yes. A sycophant to a poster creating a strawman argument toward my post.

Be proud, Julius.

what does ed's clown pants have to do with anything?

 

[PapaG]

what does ed's clown pants have to do with anything?

Not sure what you're talking about.

What do ed's clown pants have to do with anything?

 

[Nikolokolus]

So, were Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman not "good" players as well? I'm not saying that Przy has rebounded or blocked shots as well as them, but if we're including the ability to create offense, wouldn't these to not be "good" as well?

As I said, define "good", Ed. Or don't.

Ben Wallace was DPOY and was absolutely dominant in that role, crappy offense aside his ability to defend the paint was astounding for a couple of years, Rodman was a freak rebounder and a great defensive player too ... If Joel had the rebounding chops or the defensive dominance of either player then, yes, he would be a "good" player.

I love Joel, but he's just not quite in the same class as Wallace or Rodman (in their primes).

EDIT:
To clarify, my rating of Joel as "serviceable" isn't just because he's a bad offensive player, it's composite of everything he does on the court.

 

[PapaG]

I love Joel, but he's just not quite in the same class as Wallace or Rodman (in their primes).

Of course not, and I never claimed that. You included the ability to create offense in your definition of a "good" player. I was only offering some examples that you didn't include as exceptions to your obviously correct interpretation of "good".

 

[Nikolokolus]

Of course not, and I never claimed that. You included the ability to create offense in your definition of a "good" player. I was only offering some examples that you didn't include as exceptions to your obviously correct interpretation of "good".

Yeah, I reread what I wrote and I should have clarified, that if Joel specifically had any kind of offensive game it would make the sum of his parts add up to "good," not that every player must possess those skills themselves if other parts of their game make them dominant.

 

[PapaG]

Yeah, I reread what I wrote and I should have clarified, that if Joel specifically had any kind of offensive game it would make the sum of his parts add up to "good," not that every player must possess those skills themselves if other parts of their game make them dominant.

So, Joel isn't a "good" player. I disagree, but whatever.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So, Joel isn't a "good" player. I disagree, but whatever.

Tell you what. Compared to the current crop of NBA centers Joel is probably a top fifteen player at his position; by that measure he is actually "good", but just because there is such a dearth of good NBA centers currently in the league doesn't automatically make Joel a good one -- in a historic sense.

 

[PapaG]

Tell you what. Compared to the current crop of NBA centers Joel is probably a top fifteen player at his position; by that measure he is actually "good", but just because there is such a dearth of good NBA centers currently in the league doesn't automatically make Joel a good one -- in a historic sense.

Oden is a better center than Przy when he isn't fouling, and as I've posted previously, he should be starting IMO. That said, my original point about people diminishing what Joel does in order to prop up Oden still stands.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Oden is a better center than Przy when he isn't fouling, and as I've posted previously, he should be starting IMO. That said, my original point about people diminishing what Joel does in order to prop up Oden still stands.

On that point, I completely agree with you. I've heard people do the same thing to Batum, in an effort to pump up Webster. That approach makes no sense to me!

 

[axs88]

On that point, I completely agree with you. I've heard people do the same thing to Batum, in an effort to pump up Webster. That approach makes no sense to me!

Well, yeah, except while Oden is better than Joel, Batum is at least Webster's equal in production.

 

[mook]

Przybilla is better than average among starting NBA centers. I wouldn't call him "good", since somebody on that level should be at least an All-Star candidate or All-Defense candidate.

 

[MARIS61]

I have yet to SEE Greg demonstrate that he is better than Joel offensively OR defensively with any kind of consistency.

I'm sure he will be eventually, but so far Joel has ALWAYS brought more to the table.

If Nate didn't have an absolute rule against running plays for white players, Joel could average 20 a night.

 

[axs88]

If Nate didn't have an absolute rule against running plays for white players, Joel could average 20 a night.

I knew it would be worth to click 'View post' this time.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I knew it would be worth to click 'View post' this time.

I know... that kind of desrves a rep for entertainment value.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Excellent point Maris.

 

[magnifier661]

I have yet to SEE Greg demonstrate that he is better than Joel offensively OR defensively with any kind of consistency.

I'm sure he will be eventually, but so far Joel has ALWAYS brought more to the table.

If Nate didn't have an absolute rule against running plays for white players, Joel could average 20 a night.

This post is wrong in so many ways. Sorry, before Nate, there was Cheeks. Are you calling both racists? Cause Joel wasn't the focus offensively in Cheek's system as well.

 

[axs88]

I think the best way to enjoy his posts is to imagine them with a barfo avatar on the left and signed as barfo as well. It's not as funny, but makes way more sense that way.