Merged: |0fficial| Trade Deadline

[PtldPlatypus]

Don't make me hunt each and every one of you down with these Dame trade scenarios.

WHO'S WITH ME!

We'll be at your door with torches and pitchforks!!

Bring it. I know where you live, but you ain't got nothin' on me!

 

[Minstrel]

Sure--I'll meet you in the kitchen section of the Mall 205 Bed Bath and Beyond at 4:30. Select two utensils and get ready to rumble.

Yuppies. You wouldn't last a second in Costco when shit went down.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yuppies. You wouldn't last a second in Costco when shit went down.

HA!!! You ARE a rook. Costco clowns ain't got nothing on the Walmart superstar brawlers of the world!

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'd sure be tempted if we couldn't get a guy like Ibaka. I just don't understand why Atlanta is trading Milsap. He actually has a year and a half left on his contract. http://www.spotrac.com/nba/atlanta-hawks/paul-millsap-2754/
Considering that, I can only think they want a really lot for him; otherwise why trade him?

That is a good question. My guess is because he will be 32 in a few weeks and his ability has slipped. The few times I have watched Atlanta this year I felt like Millsap was not playing with as much hustle. And he thrived on hustle plays. Has his age caught up with him? He still is putting up 15-20 shots a game. Doubtful he would get those shots here. I would trade a player for him, but I would hate wasting our draft picks on him. Those need to be saved for someone like Butler, or to actually keep and hope to get lucky in the draft. But not for a 32 year old.

 

[BonesJones]

Ezeli, Leonard, PORs 2017 (Top 20 protected), and CLEs 2017 (gonna have to get used to writing 2017 next to them)
For
Millsap.

That's probably the most I'd give, unless we dumped Crabbe instead

 

[dviss1]

Bring it. I know where you live, but you ain't got nothin' on me!

You told me the area of where you live. But it doesn't matter where you are...

You could be in Indochina.... I'll hide in a bowl of rice...

 

[Dougnsalem]

Sure--I'll meet you in the kitchen section of the Mall 205 Bed Bath and Beyond at 4:30. Select two utensils and get ready to rumble.

OMG.... Lmao.....

Can you guys make it at 5:30? I need a little more time to get up there to witness this...

 

[blue9]

Ezeli, Leonard, PORs 2017 (Top 20 protected), and CLEs 2017 (gonna have to get used to writing 2017 next to them)
For
Millsap.

That's probably the most I'd give, unless we dumped Crabbe instead

Jeez - you really love massively overpaying for players. I swear, every single time I look at one of your trade suggestions I just shake my head.

 

[Scalma]

Ezeli, Leonard, PORs 2017 (Top 20 protected), and CLEs 2017 (gonna have to get used to writing 2017 next to them)
For
Millsap.

That's probably the most I'd give, unless we dumped Crabbe instead

Make that lottery protected and Atlanta probably does it.

But Denver can probably put together a better package. I know Toronto can't. Sac doesn't even have picks to trade if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Scalma]

Jeez - you really love massively overpaying for players. I swear, every single time I look at one of your trade suggestions I just shake my head.

I thought it was a balanced offer, if anything we should be adding more to it, not less. Millsap might be a rental, but someone will pay up

 

[illmatic99]

Jeez - you really love massively overpaying for players. I swear, every single time I look at one of your trade suggestions I just shake my head.

Seriously.

How many more times we gotta say this? No trading picks! Draft is our ONLY option to acquire talent in the next two -three years. We can't be trading those away and throwing in more from the future for what could very realistically be a 3 month rental of a 32 year old (albeit good) player, who is apparently seeking 35 mil + max deals/yr this summer. That is a number we cannot afford to pay him unless we give away a few of our other recent signings. He WILL walk.

A Millsap to POR trade is just not realistic if we want to be smart about our future.

I thought it was a balanced offer, if anything we should be adding more to it, not less. Millsap might be a rental, but someone will pay up

And it better not be us. Have we learned nothing from the Afflalo trade?

 

[blue9]

I thought it was a balanced offer, if anything we should be adding more to it, not less. Millsap might be a rental, but someone will pay up

That someone shouldn't be us. Why on earth would we want to give away two first round draft picks for a guy who doesn't make us good enough to get past the 2nd round (and possibly not even past the 1st round!)? I wouldn't even deal CLE's pick for Millsap. We aren't anywhere close - with or without Millsap - to getting to the WCF, so giving away valuable assets for him would be stupid.

A good case could be made for TOR giving up good value for Millsap, but a good case cannot be made for US giving up any value for him.

 

[TBpup]

Jimmy Butler is not a better offensive basketball player than Damian Lillard.

I threw in offensive because I think Dame is better but if you consider the other 50% of the game, it's tough to see where Dame has so much of an offensive advantage to negate the defensive gap.

Lillard - 26.8 ppg, 4.5 rebs, 6.3 assts, 0.8 stls, 2.7 TOs. Shoots .455 FG%, .355 3Pt% and .893 from the FT line where he gets 7.7 FTA per game.
Butler - 25.5 ppg, 6.8 rebs, 4.5 assts, 1.7 stls, 2.1 TOs. Shoots .456 FG%, .336 3Pt% and .880 from the FT line where he gets 9.5 FTA per game.

Points are very similar, Butler gets significantly more rebounds, Dame significantly more assist. Butler doubles up on steals, they shoot almost identical numbers from the field, Dame is just a touch higher from '3' (I thought that would be bigger) and they are close at the line but Butler gets there about 20% more often.

So it is quite close offensively but when you consider the defensive impact, I think that is where Butler separates himself.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yuppies. You wouldn't last a second in Costco when shit went down.

Only went with BB&B 'cause I didn't think @Orion Bailey would be man enough to step to me at Big Lots.

 

[illmatic99]

I'd trade clevelands pick for him, even if there's a possibility he'll leave after the season. I would even offer him the max, or something close to it. Yes it's overpaying, but no one wants to come to Portland, until they actually come to Portland. Maybe he'll like playing with Dame and CJ. We'll have to overpay to keep him, but I say why not. Millsap is good enough to be worth the risk.

A max deal for Millsap is about 4 yrs, 150 mil.

Just fyi.

People are bitching about AC/ET. You are suggesting doubling those numbers for a guy who is on the wrong side of 30.

This is madness.

 

[blue9]

I threw in offensive because I think Dame is better but if you consider the other 50% of the game, it's tough to see where Dame has so much of an offensive advantage to negate the defensive gap.

Lillard - 26.8 ppg, 4.5 rebs, 6.3 assts, 0.8 stls, 2.7 TOs. Shoots .455 FG%, .355 3Pt% and .893 from the FT line where he gets 7.7 FTA per game.
Butler - 25.5 ppg, 6.8 rebs, 4.5 assts, 1.7 stls, 2.1 TOs. Shoots .456 FG%, .336 3Pt% and .880 from the FT line where he gets 9.5 FTA per game.

Points are very similar, Butler gets significantly more rebounds, Dame significantly more assist. Butler doubles up on steals, they shoot almost identical numbers from the field, Dame is just a touch higher from '3' (I thought that would be bigger) and they are close at the line but Butler gets there about 20% more often.

So it is quite close offensively but when you consider the defensive impact, I think that is where Butler separates himself.

Agreed. But Dame separates himself from Butler in the locker room. I find it tough to say whether defense or leadership is more valuable. I'm inclined to say leadership, because good defense won't do much if you can't get your teammates to follow your lead.

 

[Scalma]

When did draft picks become sure things? They usually take years to develop. I'm not saying I want to just give them away, but we gotta take risks sometime otherwise we'll be having this same conversation years from now. If you have an opportunity to acquire Millsap, DO IT. And this isn't an Afflalo situation (btw that was the right move as well, sorry that Olshey couldn't predict Matthews' injury) because Millsap is on a completely different level. An all star caliber player compared to a bench player, which is what Afflalo was brought in for. Don't forget that if we acquired Millsap, we would be able to offer him more money than anyone else. That might not have mattered to Aldridge, but not everyone is the same.

 

[blue9]

When did draft picks become sure things?

It's not about them being sure things, it's about them being among the most valuable assets we have.

 

[illmatic99]

When did draft picks become sure things? They usually take years to develop. I'm not saying I want to just give them away, but we gotta take risks sometime otherwise we'll be having this same conversation years from now. If you have an opportunity to acquire Millsap, DO IT. And this isn't an Afflalo situation (btw that was the right move as well, sorry that Olshey couldn't predict Matthews' injury) because Millsap is on a completely different level. An all star caliber player compared to a bench player, which is what Afflalo was brought in for. Don't forget that if we acquired Millsap, we would be able to offer him more money than anyone else. That might not have mattered to Aldridge, but not everyone is the same.

It's not about them being sure things, it's about them being among the most valuable assets we have.

I don't think @Scalma has come to the realization that we are a mediocre team yet. Even with an aging Millsap, this team can very realistically top out as a 40-45 win team that pays luxury tax for 3 straight years. Meaning, no exceptions to acquire players. And now, no picks locked on cheap contracts. Is that really what we want? Even PA is not that foolishly rich to keep shelling out 200 mil in salaries and taxes every year for what is at-best, a 6th seed.

Right now, I'd put our pick and Cleveland's right behind Dame and CJ as our most valuable assets. They are not throw ins.

 

[BonesJones]

Jeez - you really love massively overpaying for players. I swear, every single time I look at one of your trade suggestions I just shake my head.

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Two picks below 20th, an injured player who will never play for us and Meyers fucking Leonard is an overpay for someone who was an all start last year and would start for us as our 3rd best player?

How the hell do you consider that an overpay?

 

[BonesJones]

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Two picks below 20th, an injured player who will never play for us and Meyers fucking Leonard is an overpay for someone who was an all start last year and would start for us as our 3rd best player?

How the hell do you consider that an overpay?

I guess you think Tyler Lydon, Kieta Bates-Diop, and Meyers Leonard would be so much more valuable than Paul Millsap.

Ridiculous.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Two picks below 20th, an injured player who will never play for us and Meyers fucking Leonard is an overpay for someone who was an all start last year and would start for us as our 3rd best player?

How the hell do you consider that an overpay?

Blazers' pick is unlikely to be below 20, and there's a very strong chance that Millsap would sign elsewhere 6 months from now, so it's definitely arguable that the two picks would be worth more to us long term than Millsap would.

 

[BonesJones]

It's not about them being sure things, it's about them being among the most valuable assets we have.

CLEs isn't that valuable. Protecting ours from being traded inside the top 20 means that we shouldn't be hesitant to trade it. Because either the trade works out and that player helps us to a top 10 record or it doesn't and we keep our pick.

About a third of 21st-30th picks become rotation players. We shouldn't be afraid to trade those picks.

 

[BonesJones]

Blazers' pick is unlikely to be below 20, and there's a very strong chance that Millsap would sign elsewhere 6 months from now, so it's definitely arguable that the two picks would be worth more to us long term than Millsap would.

I think Millsap would stay, and if it's unlikely to be below 20 than we keep our pick and give up ONE 1st that will likely be 29th or 30th.

 

[Minstrel]

Agreed. But Dame separates himself from Butler in the locker room. I find it tough to say whether defense or leadership is more valuable. I'm inclined to say leadership, because good defense won't do much if you can't get your teammates to follow your lead.

Even if "leadership" really is as valuable as a tangible skill like defense (which I don't believe, though I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant), there isn't any real evidence that Lillard is some superstar leader. There's been plenty of ink spilled about how Lillard doesn't do a lot to lead, that he "leads by example." Leading by example is something any excellent player can do. I'd love for the other Blazers to follow Jimmy Butler's example on defense.

 

[blue9]

Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Two picks below 20th, an injured player who will never play for us and Meyers fucking Leonard is an overpay for someone who was an all start last year and would start for us as our 3rd best player?

How the hell do you consider that an overpay?

Read all of the posts about it and if you still don't get it then...well, I don't know what. But there's nothing more to say that hasn't already been said.

 

[BonesJones]

Read all of the posts about it and if you still don't get it then...well, I don't know what. But there's nothing more to say that hasn't already been said.

So you're basically saying: "It wouldn't turn us into true contenders so I wouldn't want to make this team better at risk of losing the 29th pick in the draft and our chance at players I've never heard about (such as Jonathan Motley, Tyler Lydon, Edmond Sumner, etc.)"

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So you're basically saying: "It wouldn't turn us into true contenders so I wouldn't want to make this team better at risk of losing the 29th pick in the draft and our chance at players I've never heard about (such as Jonathan Motley, Tyler Lydon, Edmond Sumner, etc.)"

Or he's saying, "I wouldn't want to spend something that is considered universally-valued NBA currency (draft picks) on a player that will either leave in the summer or require a higher salary than Dame currently receives in order to stay."

Or perhaps he's saying, "With our current cap and future tax situation, we can't afford to eschew inexpensive players and lose opportunities to benefit from the player acquisition method in which Olshey is most competent."

There are always multiple sides to every argument, and most of them have some validity.

 

[TBpup]

Agreed. But Dame separates himself from Butler in the locker room. I find it tough to say whether defense or leadership is more valuable. I'm inclined to say leadership, because good defense won't do much if you can't get your teammates to follow your lead.

Leadership is very important (agreed) but CJ may be as much of a leader as Dame if he were gone. (I can't believe we are even discussing that but when teams underperform, it's all fair game.) If we were to lose Dame's leadership, would CJ be able to fill that role? Then by adding Butlers additional defense along with similar scoring, it would seem we would come out ahead.

Dame himself has said he was hesitant to call out teammates for their poor defense. That is probably because he knows he is one of the main culprits. But it has been reported that teammates have specifically asked him to do so but maybe that just isn't his thing.

 

[blue9]

So you're basically saying: "It wouldn't turn us into true contenders so I wouldn't want to make this team better at risk of losing the 29th pick in the draft and our chance at players I've never heard about (such as Jonathan Motley, Tyler Lydon, Edmond Sumner, etc.)"

See Platypus' response.

Also:

This pick swap wasn't done as a favor. This draft is deeper. This will be a better pick.

Also, again, it's not about the risk of losing "our chance at players I've never heard about". It's about the fact that the draft pick - even the 29th - is one of our more valuable assets. We could do better than a Millsap rental by packaging it on draft day - at least then, whoever we trade the pick for will be on our roster next season.