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noknobs said:
I didn't read it as 'de-valuing him', just that he doesn't want to trade CJ for him.. I don't either. There are ways to improve our interior defense without giving up CJ. At any rate, I don't know why Miami would want to trade a center they just signed to a 4year/$98m contract, and trade big for small. The rest of their bigs aren't that good.
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Riley loves his centers.

Kareem, Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, and Oden.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I don't think you guys are getting his point. How chandler is, is not relevant. The fact that he is the hot pursuit is. That to me is glaring that NO isn't gonna split dame and cj. We can get chandler without doing that and I believe that is no's plan.
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Funny. I read that last bit as "no plan."
 
Orion Bailey said:
Exactly.
So we would have a lineup of:

Dame/Napier/
CJ/Connaughton
Harkless/Vonleh?
Aminu/Davis
Whiteside/???

Very thin roster that would need several more key role players we wouldnt be able to afford.

That bench would lose very game for us, no matter how the starting five played.
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If we're talking about the hypothetical world in which we signed Whiteside this summer, we'd still have Plumlee backing Whiteside up at center. Also, having not matched Crabbe or offered Leonard or Ezeli, we would have had additional cap space to sign a decent backup guard, so we wouldn't be as thin as you suggest.

If we're talking about next season, the players you list only total $95M, so there's still plenty of room under the tax line to fill out the roster a bit, even if we let Plumlee walk.

If a Dame/CJ/Whiteside lineup ever came to fruition, it would not be terribly difficult to fill in around it sufficiently to field a contending roster.
 
Orion Bailey said:
And we will have to disagree on your definition of these contracts. I think they are movable, especially Turner and Crabbe based on recent play. Unfortunately, they are also players of need on our roster.
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"Movable" as in, "can be offloaded only to a team who gives us basically nothing in return"? Yeah, that's an albatross.

Or do you mean, "can be dealt to a team who sees value in the player and will actually send something useful back"? If so, then by all means we should. Is Crabbe--whose role is "perimeter scorer"nnreally a "player of need" on a Dame/CJ-centric roster, or would we actually be able to trade him for a player who would fill an even greater need, such as rim protector? If so, I truly hope we do, because the skills he has aren't translating to wins on this squad.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Without albatross contracts like Crabbe, Turner, and Leonard, we'd have plenty of flexibility. If we'd signed Whiteside, it's arguable that none of those guys would be here.
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Orion Bailey said:
Exactly.
So we would have a lineup of:

Dame/Napier/
CJ/Connaughton
Harkless/Vonleh?
Aminu/Davis
Whiteside/???

Very thin roster that would need several more key role players we wouldnt be able to afford.

That bench would lose very game for us, no matter how the starting five played.
Click to expand...
Considering we would have sisgned Whiteside before Crabbe got his offer sheet and Crabbe's cap hold was pretty small, we would've likely kept Crabbe too. With the $7M saved from renouncing Leonard's cap hold, we could've resigned Gerald Henderson.

Dame / CJ
CJ / Henderson
Harkless / Crabbe
Aminu / Davis
Whiteside / Plumlee

We would've been fine depth wise.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
"Movable" as in, "can be offloaded only to a team who gives us basically nothing in return"? Yeah, that's an albatross.

Or do you mean, "can be dealt to a team who sees value in the player and will actually send something useful back"? If so, then by all means we should. Is Crabbe--whose role is "perimeter scorer"nnreally a "player of need" on a Dame/CJ-centric roster, or would we actually be able to trade him for a player who would fill an even greater need, such as rim protector? If so, I truly hope we do, because the skills he has aren't translating to wins on this squad.
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Considering Crabbe's our only above average shooter other than McLillard, he's a player of need, but not because of anything special about him. Just because we lack shooters in a shooter-centered offense.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
"Movable" as in, "can be offloaded only to a team who gives us basically nothing in return"? Yeah, that's an albatross.
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It's "movable" as in, here "let me pay you something to take this pile of $#@* contract away from me"
 
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...e-on-the-block-a-look-at-heat-big-mans-value/

I'd trade a lot for Whiteside. Considering he admitted we were his second option, and he likely would've signed with us if he knew how bad the Heat would've been, it seems like he wants to be here. He'd be a great fit.

We'd likely have to trade Crabbe to match the salary, but Miami wouldn't want them because they're a free agent destination.

If someone wants Crabbe, then it'd be a 3-team trade were:

3rd Team (76ers?) Gets Crabbe: Sends late 1st to Miami (PHI has OKCs 2020 1st, it would likely be a later first)

To replace Crabbe, we take on Tyler Johnson, who's contract will become a behemoth in the future. Miami probably will give him up without wanting anything back anyway.

We then would likely give up our 2017 Firsts, and a 2019 first, and possibly a 4th 1st or another asset from Team 3. We'd likely give them Ezeli to balance the salaries, and Vonleh as sweetener.

So they get a boatload of 1sts, a young asset or two, and also shed $26M or so for next year. For 2019, they shed over $40M (Johnson will be making $19M). They would likely then trade Dragic for expiring contracts and 1 or 2 firsts to have 4-6 extra first round picks, and shed a full $40M for next year. We could also help them shed another $5M by taking back McRoberts in the trade, but that would put us over the Luxery Tax.

We essentially replace Crabbe with Johnson, and add Whiteside.

Lillard / CJ
CJ / Johnson
Harkless / Turner
Aminu / Davis
Whiteside / Plumlee / Leonard

Would Miami take it? Who knows. Adding that many firsts and shedding that much salary seems like the best route for them, and I would do it if I were them, even if it traded Whiteside to another team.

We'd still have assets to try and go get a Serge Ibaka type player, considering we could likely get two firsts back for Plumlee and one of Aminu/Davis. (Toronto needs a backup C, and it would be easy for them to match Plumlees incoming contract). It would be possible to get TORs and LACs 2017 1sts (Toronto has LACs 2017 first).

So it may be something like:

TOR Gets: Plumlee
ORL Gets: Poeltl, 2017 LAC and TOR 1sts, Team 4 Future 1st,
POR Gets: Ibaka
Team 4 Gets: Davis/Aminu

Lillard / CJ
CJ / Johnson
Harkless / Turner
Ibaka / Aminu
Whiteside / Leonard

----------------------------------

Are either of those deals likely? Hell no. Would we want to mortgage out future picks? Yes, if we protect them a bit. Both deals are creative, and would give us two top defensive big men who's offensive games compliment each other and the guards.

So while it will be nearly impossible to do what I did here, we need to pursue a couple deals LIKE THESE. We need to be creative with the assets that we kept for a reason. I wonder if Olshey has this type of creative trading in him though. He traded for Chris Paul back in the day, but that was a simple prospect for all-star swap. We need some Jerry Dipoto type trading.
 
We were Whiteside's "second choice" because he saw the potential of adding his skills to those of Dame AND CJ. Not sure we would have even been on his radar had it just been Dame and a bunch of chuckleheads...which is what we are if we trade CJ for him. Hassan might not be so happy getting traded to cold, rainy, snowy Portland if it means the team only has two kinda legit players, rather than three.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
If we're talking about the hypothetical world in which we signed Whiteside this summer, we'd still have Plumlee backing Whiteside up at center. Also, having not matched Crabbe or offered Leonard or Ezeli, we would have had additional cap space to sign a decent backup guard, so we wouldn't be as thin as you suggest.

If we're talking about next season, the players you list only total $95M, so there's still plenty of room under the tax line to fill out the roster a bit, even if we let Plumlee walk.

If a Dame/CJ/Whiteside lineup ever came to fruition, it would not be terribly difficult to fill in around it sufficiently to field a contending roster.
Click to expand...

PtldPlatypus said:
"Movable" as in, "can be offloaded only to a team who gives us basically nothing in return"? Yeah, that's an albatross.

Or do you mean, "can be dealt to a team who sees value in the player and will actually send something useful back"? If so, then by all means we should. Is Crabbe--whose role is "perimeter scorer"nnreally a "player of need" on a Dame/CJ-centric roster, or would we actually be able to trade him for a player who would fill an even greater need, such as rim protector? If so, I truly hope we do, because the skills he has aren't translating to wins on this squad.
Click to expand...

I think they are movable contracts tht some other teams will see value in for their team.
 
Scalma said:
It's not worth anything. It's a site that makes up bullshit for hits. If you want to read it, cool, but posting it is pointless because for the rest of us, it means literally nothing. But I'm the fool. Good one.
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There's a way to convey info. You did that in a foolish way. Hell if I know about that site. I just came across it. Again there was no reason for your all caps soliloquy...
 
I hope olshey is really pushing for whiteside or Noel. I would throw anything at those players besides dame and cj. You never know
 
BonesJones said:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/n...e-on-the-block-a-look-at-heat-big-mans-value/

I'd trade a lot for Whiteside. Considering he admitted we were his second option, and he likely would've signed with us if he knew how bad the Heat would've been, it seems like he wants to be here. He'd be a great fit.

We'd likely have to trade Crabbe to match the salary, but Miami wouldn't want them because they're a free agent destination.

If someone wants Crabbe, then it'd be a 3-team trade were:

3rd Team (76ers?) Gets Crabbe: Sends late 1st to Miami (PHI has OKCs 2020 1st, it would likely be a later first)

To replace Crabbe, we take on Tyler Johnson, who's contract will become a behemoth in the future. Miami probably will give him up without wanting anything back anyway.

We then would likely give up our 2017 Firsts, and a 2019 first, and possibly a 4th 1st or another asset from Team 3. We'd likely give them Ezeli to balance the salaries, and Vonleh as sweetener.

So they get a boatload of 1sts, a young asset or two, and also shed $26M or so for next year. For 2019, they shed over $40M (Johnson will be making $19M). They would likely then trade Dragic for expiring contracts and 1 or 2 firsts to have 4-6 extra first round picks, and shed a full $40M for next year. We could also help them shed another $5M by taking back McRoberts in the trade, but that would put us over the Luxery Tax.

We essentially replace Crabbe with Johnson, and add Whiteside.

Lillard / CJ
CJ / Johnson
Harkless / Turner
Aminu / Davis
Whiteside / Plumlee / Leonard

Would Miami take it? Who knows. Adding that many firsts and shedding that much salary seems like the best route for them, and I would do it if I were them, even if it traded Whiteside to another team.

We'd still have assets to try and go get a Serge Ibaka type player, considering we could likely get two firsts back for Plumlee and one of Aminu/Davis. (Toronto needs a backup C, and it would be easy for them to match Plumlees incoming contract). It would be possible to get TORs and LACs 2017 1sts (Toronto has LACs 2017 first).

So it may be something like:

TOR Gets: Plumlee
ORL Gets: Poeltl, 2017 LAC and TOR 1sts, Team 4 Future 1st,
POR Gets: Ibaka
Team 4 Gets: Davis/Aminu

Lillard / CJ
CJ / Johnson
Harkless / Turner
Ibaka / Aminu
Whiteside / Leonard

----------------------------------

Are either of those deals likely? Hell no. Would we want to mortgage out future picks? Yes, if we protect them a bit. Both deals are creative, and would give us two top defensive big men who's offensive games compliment each other and the guards.

So while it will be nearly impossible to do what I did here, we need to pursue a couple deals LIKE THESE. We need to be creative with the assets that we kept for a reason. I wonder if Olshey has this type of creative trading in him though. He traded for Chris Paul back in the day, but that was a simple prospect for all-star swap. We need some Jerry Dipoto type trading.
Click to expand...

the other interesting thing you are forgetting, is bosh's contract will no longer be on the books either due to his blood clot issues. so if they make a trade that off loads a large contract or two they have an immense amount of cash to spend.
 
Scalma said:
Miami would probably not be interested in big contracts (Crabbe) but I could see something like an unprotected first, clevelands first, a 2018 protected first, Ezeli, Davis, and Vonleh for Whiteside.
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Why on earth would Miami even begin to think about trading Whiteside if CJ or Dame were not involved?
 
Scalma said:
From a heat blogger, who knows how reliable, who cares, it's fun to talk about it either way

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Yeah, that blogger looks like a reliable source, he looks like he's about 13.
 
Sinobas said:
Yeah, that blogger looks like a reliable source, he looks like he's about 13.
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isn't there some reporter that is a pretty big deal and has been doing it for like 12 years that's only like 25 or 26 or something? he got started in biz when he was like 14 or 15 or something crazy like that.
not sayin that's him, just saying, its possible...I guess lol
 
I see Alexis Ajinca wants out of New Orleans. Has about 4 more inches wingspan and standing reach than anyone on our roster, averages over 11 rebounds per 36 and almost two blocks. BUT, New Orleans defensive rating made a huge improvement with him out of the lineup. and he has no offensive game.
 
selloutking said:
isn't there some reporter that is a pretty big deal and has been doing it for like 12 years that's only like 25 or 26 or something? he got started in biz when he was like 14 or 15 or something crazy like that.
not sayin that's him, just saying, its possible...I guess lol
Click to expand...
Alex Kennedy is who you are thinking of, I believe.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I don't think you guys are getting his point. How chandler is, is not relevant. The fact that he is the hot pursuit is. That to me is glaring that NO isn't gonna split dame and cj. We can get chandler without doing that and I believe that is no's plan.
Click to expand...

Chandler, Noel and Nurkic are all available and wouldn't require CJ. Which of those do you prefer?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I see Alexis Ajinca wants out of New Orleans. Has about 4 more inches wingspan and standing reach than anyone on our roster, averages over 11 rebounds per 36 and almost two blocks. BUT, New Orleans defensive rating made a huge improvement with him out of the lineup. and he has no offensive game.
Click to expand...
I'd trade Meyers for him. I think Meyers could be a good fit in NO.

TBpup said:
Chandler, Noel and Nurkic are all available and wouldn't require CJ. Which of those do you prefer?
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My preference would be Noel, Nurkic, _____, nobody, then Chandler.
 
TBpup said:
Chandler, Noel and Nurkic are all available and wouldn't require CJ. Which of those do you prefer?
Click to expand...

Noel, then Nurkic. Nurkic might be a more immediate impact, but doesn't have the upside potential to be the needle move Noel might be to this team. Noel's game is a style in much more of a need than Nurkic's game.
Chandler is an expensive stop gap with nothing but downside left. and that downside might drop into a free fall real soon.
 
I'm still going Ibaka first, even though no rumors about him, I think he is available. I think Noel is getting more expensive, but besides that I like Ibaka's three point shooting and experience.
 
TBpup said:
Chandler, Noel and Nurkic are all available and wouldn't require CJ. Which of those do you prefer?
Click to expand...

Between Noel and Nurkic.........Are we keeping Plums in that scenario? If so I wonder who he would best fit next to. Plums would play center next to Noel and PF next to Nurkic. Two totally different looks. My first thought is that the obvious choice is Noel, but I actually like size and shooting touch of Nurkic. And his next contract might be cheaper.

But the athleticism of Noel is hard to argue. I guess long term Noel is the choice since he has the most upside, but I would be happy with Nurkic as well if he didn't take as much to get.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Between Noel and Nurkic.........Are we keeping Plums in that scenario? If so I wonder who he would best fit next to. Plums would play center next to Noel and PF next to Nurkic. Two totally different looks. My first thought is that the obvious choice is Noel, but I actually like size and shooting touch of Nurkic. And his next contract might be cheaper.

But the athleticism of Noel is hard to argue. I guess long term Noel is the choice since he has the most upside, but I would be happy with Nurkic as well if he didn't take as much to get.
Click to expand...

No way Plums plays PF.
He would go to backup Center.
 
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